A Lab Gab ponderance ...

[Coffee Pancake]

So we just had a lab gab, blah blah blah ... the contents are not what this thread is about.

Would they be better with a real human rather than an avatar ?

Brad sounded pretty excited and animated .. and his avatar is a brick, the whole scene was stiff and unreal. Weird .. in a way that kinda makes sense to us, but, unwatchable to anyone else.

 

SL is real people not puppets.

Minecraft use real people with real names, so does everyone else.

[Jaylinbridges]

I was distracted by his extra long fingers, the only part of his body that was animated.  (unsynced lips don't count)

Edited April 27 by Jaylinbridges

[Honey Puddles]

I was given the mental image of an aging David Prowse, struggling with arthritis, trying to appear to sit casually on an undersized, wooden kitchen chair.

SL's strange "muhmuhmuhmuh" lip movements on voice and head waggles also don't help make things feel 'natural'. Brad's animated and energetic response to questions certainly didn't match the 'posed doll in a dollhouse' presentation. Sure, his pose moved a little here and there, and he wiggled his fingers in strangely inappropriate points, but it just feels like two people talking over an animated screenshot.

I feel like some webcams, or cutaways to webpages being scrolled, something.. Coffee is right.. by contrast, Minecraft's announcement videos are works of art.. people talking to the camera, sitting in chairs, sitting in their offices, etc..  And they use their real names too, like Jens Bergensten and Agnes Larsson, not "Jeb_" and "LadyAgnes" most of the time.

[Evangeline Arcadia]

I haven't seen any minecraft videos so I can't compare, but it didn't bother me that LabGab is shot in SL. I hand't ntoiced any weirdness with hands. So for me, these videos aren't problematic. But perhaps they could be enhanced with cutaways to relevant web pages, imagery etc. as honey Puddles suggests though, tha'ts not a bad idea.

[Honey Puddles]

There's a sort of 'professional company' vibe when you see real people, and use real names.

"Hi, I'm Brad Oberwager, owner of Linden Lab", and referring to him as "Brad", etc. Instead it's "Strawberry" talking to "Oberwolf". 27 minutes of watching avatars shifting slightly in chair poses, while two people talk.

Compare that to something like this:

 

[rasterscan]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Brad sounded pretty excited and animated .. and his avatar is a brick

Good points. Is there a piccy of Brads avatar to see ?

[Istelathis]

To be honest, I would rather everyone presented themselves in a manner that was most comfortable for themselves.   The way we judge one another on appearances, rather than ideas, is pretty miserable.  Plus, considering it was Second Life, for Second Life users, and seems to be tradition, then it doesn't really feel unfamiliar.  

[Qie Niangao]

Whether it's using avatar video or a standard issue talking-heads interview format, I'd barely notice because I treat YouTube (by far the most valuable media service on the planet) as a poor podcast player with annoying video I ignore except for the subtitles.

Why don't these LabGabs have the automatically generated transcripts anymore? Those were really useful. Is this yet another way YouTube disappoints?

[Anna Salyx]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Would they be better with a real human rather than an avatar ?

Brad sounded pretty excited and animated .. and his avatar is a brick, the whole scene was stiff and unreal. Weird .. in a way that kinda makes sense to us, but, unwatchable to anyone else.

The aesthetics of the avatar's don't bother me at all. Hosting the video interview/conversation within the Second Life environment is something I really do like since it's target audience really is us, the residents; we like to see "our world" normalized and utilized and that "they" are here with us. 

That all said, I think there needs to be better animations in the chairs for these events. That one hand gesture with the single finger curling under and back.... first the index finger then the middle finger curled all the way under... all by itself with none of the other fingers moving even slightly.... That's unnatural, can't be done irl. Uncanny valley material right there.  That was the only truly distracting thing about the video for me.  And I'm not even talking about it for the interview now, but in general: what animator thought that was a good idea?  I mean really?!?

But maybe that's just me. 

Edited April 27 by Anna Salyx

[Rick Nightingale]

1 hour ago, Anna Salyx said:

That all said, I think there needs to be better animations in the chairs for these events.

This thread has got me thinking that this could be a useful use of AI; generating (or at least switching) animations that relate to the speakers tone of voice, content, etc.

It would probably work a bit like auto-generated subtitles, where occasionally it gets the subtitles wrong due to early mistranslation or just misidentification.

LL... are you listening? Companies are plugging AI into anything and everything whether we want it and it is actually useful or not. Maybe LL should jump on that bandwagon. If nothing else it would give us all something new to moan about if when it breaks.

[Mr Amore]

Were I being critical, I would say Oberwolf is a three year old avatar, dressed in a ten year old Deadwool suit. In what appears to be a Catwa head, with hair and beard options that should have stayed in the 2010's*

 

However, it's a drastic improvement on the Lindens who show up to these meetings in system avatars. SL is a platform which largely revolves around personal expression and your avatar, it's unlike other 'games'. I don't have an issue with avatar-featured meetings, but particularly the Lindens should make some effort as they are representing the platform and its possibilities to the world.

 

Before she was a Linden, I appreciated Strawberry's videos. For a non-fashionista as myself it was my primary resource on understanding mesh bodies and how to configure them. I really think she should walk around the LL office and give everyone a mandatory makeover.

 

*My avatar is also from the 2010's, since returning to SL I have tried updating but it was a disaster. I've estimated it'll take 12 hours to figure this out, which isn't a priority right now. So I'm slumming it on a sandbox in an obsolete avatar.

 

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Why don't these LabGabs have the automatically generated transcripts anymore? Those were really useful. Is this yet another way YouTube disappoints?

The subtitles are available now, there may have been a delay in generation.

[Honey Puddles]

5 hours ago, rasterscan said:

Good points. Is there a piccy of Brads avatar to see ?

[Sid Nagy]

6 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So we just had a lab gab, blah blah blah ... the contents are not what this thread is about.

Would they be better with a real human rather than an avatar ?

Brad sounded pretty excited and animated .. and his avatar is a brick, the whole scene was stiff and unreal. Weird .. in a way that kinda makes sense to us, but, unwatchable to anyone else.

 

SL is real people not puppets.

Minecraft use real people with real names, so does everyone else.

One camera on two RL persons without any movement or change of views will be equally boring when it is shot with Second Life avatars.
The average change of camera position is under 3 seconds in movies, in video music clips even shorter.
In the last Lab Gab, there was one and the same camera position over 15 minutes!!  Now, how boring can you make it.

Strawberry never ever looks to the person who is speaking in any of the Lab Gabs.
That simply signals totally no interest in the people that are in the room with you in human body language.
That is the second main flaw in Lab Gabs. Look at the person you talk or listen to.

Potcasts would be a by far better solution IMHO, if they are not willing to up their filming possibilities.

Edited April 27 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

If he were being interviewed on a RL show, he'd use his RL avatar. 

 

[Extrude Ragu]

On the flip side, If we're saying a zoom call would be better than watching SL - Why play SL at all?

I'd like to see more avatar expressiveness in SL, personally.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Would they be better with a real human rather than an avatar ?

Yes. RL body language and facial expressions are important. If Oberwolf is looking pained and constipated while answering difficult questions, we should know. 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Mr Amore said:

The subtitles are available now, there may have been a delay in generation.

Yeah, and that's a help, but in the past there was (eventually) a separate pane of transcript that one could open, and it would follow along with the video progress or you could scroll through it to the part you wanted to see, click, and the video would jump to that timecode. I suspect this is just some basic YouTube magic that I don't know about.

[Blush Bravin]

Personally, I don't watch the labgabs .. I simply listen to them, so it's not been an issue. That said, I don't watch because the animations bug the crap out of me. I hope with AI being incorporated across tech these days that it will be utilized in making more natural animations. 

What I don't want to see is the real people behind the avies. I like the immersion of having the Lindens represented by their avatars. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Never really paid much attention as I never watch the things. Or any videos filmed in SL much at all.

There are well-made vids out there, for sure, but the way SL looks in video has always bothered me. The producer could do the most amazing job with editing and the overall production, but the shots within SL itself always ruin it. It just looks sluggish and slow no matter what. It's strange to me as it never looks like that when I'm actually IN there, but it translates SO poorly to video. Also, with discussion vids in particular, the flashing voice chat icons over the heads are so distracting. Same with the name tags. Names could show in a banner at the bottom, like in the video above.

I do agree that Minecraft (and other dev presentations - Devolver's are a blast) are a lot more entertaining. Stuff like that, I do watch.

[Midnoot]

7 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So we just had a lab gab, blah blah blah ... the contents are not what this thread is about.

Would they be better with a real human rather than an avatar ?

Brad sounded pretty excited and animated .. and his avatar is a brick, the whole scene was stiff and unreal. Weird .. in a way that kinda makes sense to us, but, unwatchable to anyone else.

 

SL is real people not puppets.

Minecraft use real people with real names, so does everyone else.

Unwatchable? Lol. I didn't even notice. I'm so used to seeing horrendous avatars at this point that these guys looked pretty good in comparison to the things I see daily. I was listening more than watching anyway.

If you wanna talk about putting more effort into something, we need to talk about Strawberry's interview approach. I've never been more bored in my life than when she interviews someone. 

It's still funny seeing Oberwolf pretend like he cares about SL  tho. lol.

[Ceka Cianci]

Since the lab gab was directed towards concerned SL users,like most of them are. I think it was relatable..

If it was meant for drawing new users, they may have did something else.

Besides, I was too busy listening and kind of enjoy how Strawberry has things set up for them in a relaxed environment.

Plus I like seeing how they set their avatars up anyways.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Another example where body language can be important:

"I saw Oberwolf blink at 3:30, he's clearly lying!!"

"No, I think he is blinking in code: PLS..SND..HLP"

[Ineffable Mote]

Honestly this was one of the first things that crossed my mind watching the most recent Lab Gab (I don't typically watch them), rightly or wrongly. Part of it was the seeming importance of the topic and wanting to pick up on body language. They should use higher quality animation for their videos, in general, they can be loopy or too stiff in opposite direction. I find the avis end up looking like just more props. I wouldn't call it unwatchable, just a bit jarring, it does make a difference when you're trying to draw people in.

I'd say go with humans until SL animation tools gets a major upgrade. I was under impression there are more tools in works, but that was more of a VR thing, (and I could be mistaken on that).

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

The important part of lab gab is, of course, picking apart avatar choices, length of fingers, clothing choices, chair animations, sitting animations, speaking animation, the video production, and the choice to even use an avatar for SL news instead of the real life face.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

3 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

The important part of lab gab is, of course, picking apart avatar choices, length of fingers, clothing choices, chair animations, sitting animations, speaking animation, the video production, and the choice to even use an avatar for SL news instead of the real life face.

 

Ya, we could still just be looking at a wiki screen full of text and listening to a recording like before or just having to read the transcripts..

Boy was that fun.. Brown bag meeting anyone? hehehe

Honestly, I think at one point I was looking at the water texture to see if I already had it or not.. But that's about as picky as I got.. hehehe

I was really just there to absorb the information, because I had made a couple of major moves with three of my accounts..

The main thing I got from it over all is, I left the lab gab feeling better about things afterwards.. Then went and readjusted my accounts back to where they were..

That's all I was there for and I'm glad they put it together so quickly, Because they seen our concerns and felt the need to communicate back quickly with us on it..

That is my main takeaways.