Is Second Life more toxic than other games in general?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

25 minutes ago, Sam Bellisserian said:

You must play Palia. LOL!

LOL, I used to for a short time.

[Rolig Loon]

25 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

How are you supposed to know if a thread is going to bother you before you read it.   

As soon as it makes you uncomfortable or angry, walk away and don't look back.  Denial is a powerful tool.

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, AmberJoyBliss said:

This is the only one I use and I it became too draining. I still log in, but just don't have any passion left.

I sometimes wonder if it is just me being weak or attracting the wrong people and almost everyone else having a very positive time in-world.

There have been some very negative experiences on this forum here as well, and I would say the negativity in the forums outweighs's the usefulness.

I used to do a lot in here, but the only thing left is DJing and I now want to do that somewhere else.

I would say YES.

Games keep people from becoming too nasty and uncivil and weird by having goals, quests, XP, points, prizes, etc. These serve as kind of guardrails to prevent the "hell is other people" problem of virtuality -- which amplifies it painfully.

SL is open-ended, so that for some people, becoming nasty and uncivil and weird IS the game. That IS the goal, the quest, the prize.

How can you "walk around the robots" as a colleague once said about trying to get around crazy bosses, weird board members, toxic fellow employees, the nasty general public etc.

You have to find things you like doing, find groups of people doing those things, and meet them and go to their events.

To be sure, a lot of sifting might occur here, so much that you won't want to stick with it.

SL isn't for everyone.

I would say the Forums don't represent SL, it's social life, or its groups, except that wouldn't be true, since the Lindens keep the forums nasties in power through lack of modding and selecting modding so it's part of how the culture gets shaped.

It sounds like you have a fairly active ability to self-criticize and that's good in moderation and I think that most people in SL who get into bad things or have bad things happen to them are either weak, "tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine," unlucky, or online pugilists. I think it's ok to fight bad things and they do get better some times. But not right away.

I could tell you "try these 10 things or groups or events" but they may not be your thing, and frankly, even the things I fill my time with on SL sometimes aren't really my thing. 

"Second Life/God's Waiting Room on the Internet"

[Sid Nagy]

Don't expect too much from SL or the forums.
That helps a lot.
 

[Zrina Nebula]

As some already mentioned, yes there is some toxicity here and in SL. 

We're humans and nobody is perfect, we create our world, no matter if here, in RL or in SL. It's known that people love to behave extra bad in the web because of its anonymity. This won't stop as fast as we want it to.

The club scene is extra and I don't even know why. I've been there as a co-owner and DJ, never ever 😂 

So I cut all ties and stopped being in SL for quite a while. 

Now all I do is enjoy myself, shopping and exploring. I meet some nice and crazy people on the way. I add the nice ones and ignore the idiots.

It's your SL and you can, to a degree, make it your thing 😊👋

Edited December 25, 2023 by Sabrina Nebula

[steeljane42]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Games keep people from becoming too nasty and uncivil and weird by having goals, quests, XP, points, prizes, etc. These serve as kind of guardrails to prevent the "hell is other people" problem of virtuality -- which amplifies it painfully.

You clearly haven't played competitive PvP games then. But even PvE ones where teamwork is involved is a lot more toxic than SL can possibly be. And exactly because not meeting those goals you've mentioned due to "someone failing the whole team, not playing right, having a bad gear/skills setup etc"

But I would say that SL's version of toxicity is a lot more random than the ones can be found in games. Games tend to have a "reason" that triggers such toxic people, be it the above-mentioned PvP, failing the team, "stealing" others farming spots or monsters etc, while in SL it does vary from someone just not liking your avatar to how you answer (or not answer) them.

[Polenth Yue]

It's rare for me to have issues inworld, because I don't stay in places where people are a problem. No point staying in a community, or visiting a place, if it's constantly negative. In places where things are usually fine but someone starts something, I can close group chats or leave an area. It'll likely be over by the time I return.

The issue with outside stuff, like the forum and Discord, is things can end up being exaggerated because messages persist. The thing to remember is none of that is required for using Second Life. Someone's a jerk on the forum? Take a break from checking the forum or just stop checking the forum at all if you get nothing out of it. The chat on that Discord server doesn't reflect inworld in a bad way? You can mute any discussion channels on a server so that you only see the announcements. Or leave the server entirely and just make sure you check notices in the inworld group.

But it's still all peanuts compared to PvP in MMOs, which is a trash fire of epic proportions.

[Rowan Amore]

In my observations, the closer people become as a group, such as a club or RP community setting, the old adage "familiarity breeds contempt" often comes into play.  You're forced into working (playing SL) with people you may not under RL conditions, have anything to do with.  

If I were a DJ in SL, I'd not hang out at the club where I djed when I wasn't working.  Same with pretty much any 'job' you might have in SL.  There's work and then there's the rest of your SL.  

I never socialized with anyone I worked with in RL.  I'd do the same if I worked in SL.

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Anyone attacks me inworld, i just block them, no fuss no muss. The same goes for the forums too.

😂

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Don't expect too much from SL or the forums.
That helps a lot.
 

Yes! By keeping my expectations extremely low around here, I am consistently surprised. And then, someone lowers the bar even further, which leads to even more pleasant surprises! 

[InnerCity Elf]

20 hours ago, AmberJoyBliss said:

I used to do a lot in here, but the only thing left is DJing and I now want to do that somewhere else.

Where? It's a serious question, I have no idea, where else one could do that.

Like many people said, there have been and are the right and the wrong (for me) people anywhere, SL, games, RL. Unless there literally are only the wrong people at a game or elsewhere, in which case probably I'd be the wrong one there, and if you generally enjoy it, it might be worth changing your point of view, or and learning to ignore or avoid the wrong ones.

Feeling like having lost the passion may be connected in some way, but still is another issue in my opinion. It might be worth it to stay away for a while, and, whenever you feel like logging in, don't, but instead ponder why exactly, what you are looking for, what else that you could do might fulfill that feeling, or why and how SL is the best place for you for that thing or those things. Some introspection on your personal positives of SL, and then maybe focusing on those, how to get more of those, and less of things and people that bother you. Maybe like that, you could also find some new things to inspire your passion that maybe simply has run its course for other things.

Maybe you'll find that SL can be a thing of passion again for you, maybe you just need a break, or maybe SL isn't what you need or want any longer at this stage in your life. I've had a really long break from SL, but since then, I'm having quite a bit of fun in-world again, even though I didn't turn back into a "hardcore user" again. I've grown older and changed as a person, I still love SL, but in different ways. 

To me, it sounds as if you're at a point where either trying to find some new way to spend your SL time, or a break would help you, or maybe focusing on the thing you still feel passionate about, your DJing, but finding other people for and ways to do it, like re-inventing your DJ persona, or trying to bring DJing to places it doesn't (yet) "apply to,... might help. 

[Rat Luv]

22 hours ago, AmberJoyBliss said:

This is the only one I use and I it became too draining. I still log in, but just don't have any passion left.

I sometimes wonder if it is just me being weak or attracting the wrong people and almost everyone else having a very positive time in-world.

There have been some very negative experiences on this forum here as well, and I would say the negativity in the forums outweighs's the usefulness.

I used to do a lot in here, but the only thing left is DJing and I now want to do that somewhere else.

I’ve never played GTA V RP but I've watched streamers who did, and that seems a lot worse than SL! And nobody on SL has ever told me they hoped I died from a terminal disease, like someone did on Lexulous once when I got a triple word score  (they actually removed the old chat lobby there because it got so bad at one point...)

I think ‘toxic’ is a bit strong, which to me means people that really make you feel bad and cause real damage if you are in their orbit…but some just have a rude tone or get angry or condescending for no reason. Sometimes I see posts or chat and wonder, ‘Do you speak to people like that IRL?’ Especially over really trivial things!  It seems an exhausting way to go through life…The important thing is to remember that it’s about them, not you, so you shouldn’t let it ruin your mood 

I think sometimes it might feel like the forum or an inworld group is a gang where everyone has the same opinion, but it isn’t…I was the mod in some club groups and occasionally someone would appear in group chat and start insulting a member, telling everyone how awful they are, and then that member would get upset and scared that everyone now hated or distrusted them, and said they’d quit the group…but every time,  almost everyone was thinking, 'Oh great, another anonymous coward doing drive-by insults'…again, it is their issue, you can’t control other people being rude or nasty, so best to just go “Oh well!” and mute them, IMO.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

I'm not sure if SL is more toxic than other games 'in general'. Subjectively, I'd say "hell no, not by far". For one, it's not really a game, more a barbie dollhouse toy-like 3D play thing with some other possibilities (role-playing families and fantasy/sci-fi thngies). SL generally not really being competitive (like other games), but more cooperative, is probably a big reason. But, if you'd look for some data on the internet, I'd say: it's not in the top 10 of games with the most toxic communities:

Sauce

As for forums: I've also seen way way worse. Overall, I'd say this Forum has got some particularly good vibes.

In the end, it's probably all in the eye of the beholder. We're all projecting, because we're all human beings. So, if you have had some generally bad experiences in SL and the SL forum, then, yes, it's probably toxic. Maybe try a fresh start and, with some self-reflection, a different set of expectations/attitude? You could give up, but you could also put some effort in it and try again.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Thecla]

SL is what you make of it, and that includes the people you spend time around and what your own personality makeup is. Drama and toxicity has two components: the people you socialize with, and how you yourself respond to uncivil/juvenile/crazy behavior. I've been in SL for almost 20 years, on and off, and have played plenty of multi-player games, also on and off.

I have a great time in SL. I have great friends who are wity, mature, and creative, and enough of them that I never find myself going out "to meet people" that I'm not meeting through friends. I also am not easily provoked by idiocy or unkindness or downright pathological behavior. No one can hurt you in SL unless you let them. I'm kind and generous with everyone I meet in SL, and if they are not, well, I don't have to talk with them or spend time around them, lol.

All that said, I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who's spent a decent amount of time in SL that there is a percentage of the population that tries SL because they think socializing will be easier than it is in RL, only to struggle because it's not. Many of those people lash out when they get frustrated or don't get what they want. Fortunately they are generally easy to spot and avoid.

If you run around to the big dance clubs, or meat markets, you're mixing in the general population and your mileage is going to vary widely. Find venues, smaller communities, and activities that lead you to your tribe.

[Katherine Heartsong]

21 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

... wieners ...

Please, it's the day after my turkey coma. Don't mention food, please, I beg you. I managed half a piece of toast and small glass of water this morning, barely, and I wasn't even drinking yesterday.

[Paul Hexem]

17 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I would say YES.

Games keep people from becoming too nasty and uncivil and weird by having goals, quests, XP, points, prizes, etc. These serve as kind of guardrails to prevent the "hell is other people" problem of virtuality -- which amplifies it painfully.

Have you ever played any online games? Ever?

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Thecla said:

SL is what you make of it, and that includes the people you spend time around and what your own personality makeup is. Drama and toxicity has two components: the people you socialize with, and how you yourself respond to uncivil/juvenile/crazy behavior. I've been in SL for almost 20 years, on and off, and have played plenty of multi-player games, also on and off.

I have a great time in SL. I have great friends who are wity, mature, and creative, and enough of them that I never find myself going out "to meet people" that I'm not meeting through friends. I also am not easily provoked by idiocy or unkindness or downright pathological behavior. No one can hurt you in SL unless you let them. I'm kind and generous with everyone I meet in SL, and if they are not, well, I don't have to talk with them or spend time around them, lol.

All that said, I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who's spent a decent amount of time in SL that there is a percentage of the population that tries SL because they think socializing will be easier than it is in RL, only to struggle because it's not. Many of those people lash out when they get frustrated or don't get what they want. Fortunately they are generally easy to spot and avoid.

If you run around to the big dance clubs, or meat markets, you're mixing in the general population and your mileage is going to vary widely. Find venues, smaller communities, and activities that lead you to your tribe.

YES!

[Love Zhaoying]

If we go to the "game store", what do we look for on the carton that the game comes in?  "Non-Toxic"?

 

[Luna Bliss]

On 12/25/2023 at 8:57 AM, AmberJoyBliss said:

This is the only one I use and I it became too draining. I still log in, but just don't have any passion left.

I sometimes wonder if it is just me being weak or attracting the wrong people and almost everyone else having a very positive time in-world.

There have been some very negative experiences on this forum here as well, and I would say the negativity in the forums outweighs's the usefulness.

I used to do a lot in here, but the only thing left is DJing and I now want to do that somewhere else.

It sounds like you've felt really hurt by a few experiences here. I've known many who left SL after hurtful experiences.

Maybe you just need to feel that pain, process the hurt fully and come to terms with what happened.....joy and enthusiasm will return then.

*I've found that writing about the issue and/or talking to a trusted friend helps resolve feelings and enables me to move on.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Bree Giffen]

Comparing what I've seen in SL and in online games that I've played, SL is not toxic in any sense. I guess one could argue that most online games are about conflict where SL is not and the appearance of conflict in SL is itself an anomaly and therefore toxic. 

[Nagachief Darkstone]

I've been on SL for probably longer than is healthy, lol.

I don't think Second Life is inherently toxic. I do think there are toxic spaces within it, though. My best advice for those is if they don't pass the vibe check, find a new hangout. Leaving sucks but your mental well-being is always the most important thing.

I think the most pressing thing is fear of change, though. It's something that I've seen come and go in cycles with any big change or new feature. Ultimately, the fears never come to bear each new big feature. Sometimes perhaps a disappointment of LL not going far enough but never catastrophe. I remember when people lost their minds over mesh and declared no-mesh zones. Those no-mesh zones are gone. It turns out that people moved on and adapted. Those that didn't, left. And that's okay. It didn't doom Second Life.

As with Windlight, as with mesh, as with advanced lighting model, as with EEP: We will get through this with glTF/PBR and Second Life will survive and be a little better for a little while.

[Arielle Popstar]

I find the level of toxicity in SL or the forums is directly proportional to my own sensitivity on any given day. When I am feeling insecure and unworthy, there is a lot of toxicity and when I feel good there is little to none. Funny how that works.

[Persephone Emerald]

6 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Please, it's the day after my turkey coma. Don't mention food, please, I beg you. I managed half a piece of toast and small glass of water this morning, barely, and I wasn't even drinking yesterday.

What? No turkey and leftovers sandwich?

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I find the level of toxicity in SL or the forums is directly proportional to my own sensitivity on any given day. When I am feeling insecure and unworthy, there is a lot of toxicity and when I feel good there is little to none. Funny how that works.

It's like a mirror!!

[Luna Bliss]

47 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I find the level of toxicity in SL or the forums is directly proportional to my own sensitivity on any given day. When I am feeling insecure and unworthy, there is a lot of toxicity and when I feel good there is little to none. Funny how that works.

Can you share the actions you take to get out of feeling insecure and unworthy?

I suggested a couple ways to get out of a funk (writing, speaking to a trusted friend) but I'm sure there are other methods people find works for them.