Is this new round of mentors a good idea?

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

To prevent "older" residents from signing up as new users, I feel that all SL Mentors should wear the same standard SL default avatar, and one that does not always stir the hormones:

 

I left Zombie avatars off my list! 

[PheebyKatz]

2 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

"Hello, I'm AlphaStud and i will be your mentor today"

 

"Today's lesson: How to shop for hair and shoes~!"

XD

[Chic Aeon]

Not reading all this thread but keep reading misinformation so ONCE AGAIN.

 

This is based on the LINDEN VIEWER not Firestorm.

Not everyone can get into the "newbie" areas. Mentors would have a group and a tag to do so. Others  (griefers of course) could GET there by making a new avatar daily or hourly or whatever). I would ASSUME that those with MENTOR tags would be able to eject griefers.  

 

I SUGGEST STRONGLY THAT FOLKS COMMENTING IN THIS THREAD TAKE THE TIME TO GO TO THE SIGN UP PAGE AND ******READ ****** before commenting.  

 

[belindacarson]

6 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

 

• I wonder if the potential size of the group would break chat?  Getting around this would probably require more than viewer changes.
• An SL support group chat would requ

The application form says they'll invite the successful ones to their discord channels so I think they readily admit it 😄

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Not reading all this thread but keep reading misinformation so ONCE AGAIN.

 

This is based on the LINDEN VIEWER not Firestorm.

Not everyone can get into the "newbie" areas. Mentors would have a group and a tag to do so. Others  (griefers of course) could GET there by making a new avatar daily or hourly or whatever). I would ASSUME that those with MENTOR tags would be able to eject griefers.  

 

I SUGGEST STRONGLY THAT FOLKS COMMENTING IN THIS THREAD TAKE THE TIME TO GO TO THE SIGN UP PAGE AND ******READ ****** before commenting.  

 

 

I was curious about the "tags" vs. "areas" reference, so read the "sign up page" Application (sorry fellow Dark-Theme people, but I kept the formatting):

7. To be easily recognized by Residents, you need to wear your group tag. Your Mentor tag should only be worn while actively mentoring at your designated location. Also remember your appearance, profile and behavior need to reflect a General (G) maturity rating.

8. Mentors are required to use the Second Life viewer. Most Newcomers will be logging in with the Second Life Viewer. The Newcomer tutorials at the Welcome area are also provided with the official Second Life viewer in mind. We ask that our Mentors use the Official Second Life Viewer and have intimate knowledge of it so they may be more efficient and able to help them. We do not ask Newcomers to download any Third Party Viewer.

So if I understand correctly, "you need to wear your group tag. Your Mentor tag should only be worn while actively mentoring at your designated location" implies that the "designated location" will be either the "Welcome Area", or some special "Mentoring Area" TBD (@Chic Aeon refers to a "newbie area"). 

And, it implies that "mentoring" is planned only for those "designated areas" (no tours, etc.).  That's too bad, if so!

On the positive side, if OFFICIAL "mentoring" is limited to some "designated area", it definitely limits the scope of mentoring "responsibilities".  That sounds better than some open-ended Mentoring concept.

Anyway, some good information was in the "Application" that was not elsewhere.  Thanks, @Chic Aeon!

 

[RangiUtu]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:42 AM, Sid Nagy said:

 

The last time we had mentors, wasn't a real big success.
What makes LL think that it will end differently (namely in a success) this time?

Thoughts?
 

The best mentors are those people who help out of kindness and not out of some sort of "status" by being selected by the Lindens. THAT is paying it forward, not what they've got planned.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

58 minutes ago, RangiUtu said:

The best mentors are those people who help out of kindness and not out of some sort of "status" by being selected by the Lindens. THAT is paying it forward, not what they've got planned.

I think you're assigning status to them when there isn't any. I was a mentor years ago and it wasn't about whatever perceived status you have in mind, I did it because I liked SL and thought it might be nice to let other people know how to get started too. I'm sure there are others who have the same motivations. Why crap all over people you know nothing about?

[Marigold Devin]

1 hour ago, RangiUtu said:

The best mentors are those people who help out of kindness and not out of some sort of "status" by being selected by the Lindens. THAT is paying it forward, not what they've got planned.

I see what you're saying. My own viewpoint is that Linden Lab are hoping that at least some of those who already mentor unofficially and out of sheer kindness will put themselves forward in a more official capacity, not for status, but to kind of help Linden Lab out. As you can see from a lot of the previous posts in this thread though, some of us have become a little jaded with experience, but will still continue to help where we can if we can.

It's caused more controversy than I expected, 18 pages worth of viewpoints so far. I am amazed this thread has lasted so long to be honest. 

[Qie Niangao]

Mentors are selected by the Lab not to confer status upon them, but to better serve the ones they mentor. Although many generous residents will "pay it forward" without seeking that selection, new residents deserve to have some standard, trusted source of help and information, before they have any way of judging which non-mentor residents to trust.

So official Mentors need to be distinguishable.

(I muttered earlier that some official participants in the Mentor program will be (or become) motivated by something less altruistic, and the program needs to be designed to detect those cases and efficiently shepherd them away from the newbies.)

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Mentors are selected by the Lab not to confer status upon them, but to better serve the ones they mentor. Although many generous residents will "pay it forward" without seeking that selection, new residents deserve to have some standard, trusted source of help and information, before they have any way of judging which non-mentor residents to trust.

So official Mentors need to be distinguishable.

(I muttered earlier that some official participants in the Mentor program will be (or become) motivated by something less altruistic, and the program needs to be designed to detect those cases and efficiently shepherd them away from the newbies.)

..and yet, some in this thread argue vociferously that mentors "must be paid"!!1! Maybe..not cut out to be Mentors. IJS

[Silent Mistwalker]

32 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..and yet, some in this thread argue vociferously that mentors "must be paid"!!1! Maybe..not cut out to be Mentors. IJS

I value my time even if others don't value theirs. 

Maybe try being less insensitive and offensive.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Marigold Devin]

36 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..and yet, some in this thread argue vociferously that mentors "must be paid"!!1! Maybe..not cut out to be Mentors. IJS

There is a difference between being a mentor and being a total muggins. I think what rankles for me is having to commit to a couple of solid hours, and that makes it seem like a job, a chore, whereas when you can dip in and out during a session of leisure and pleasure, then it keeps Second Life a place for leisure and pleasure.

Also there are a lot of people who have created a business-like world for themselves in their Second Life, and, well, some words my wise old Aunty Lil used to say keep coming back to me here...

"If it's nice enough to have, it's nice enough to pay for."

At this point in my own Second Life, I've lost touch with all but the absolute basics, so would be totally stumped if any newbie wanted help with something more advanced than unaffixing the torch from their avatar, but I'm sure as Linden Lab are intending to have some kind of training programme this time round, there will be less likelihood of the "chinese whispers" version of information, which was often misinformation, being given out, and maybe, just maybe, there will be a little more user retention.

 

[Fauve Aeon]

Yes, I think it is a good idea and I’m actively interested in volunteering for this under the terms stated so I’m signing up today & we’ll see if I’m a good fit.  
The project resonates with me as a volunteer opportunity.
Some perceived  ‘benefits’ to me are: 

1. Immediate ability to help new people with applied & practical things right at the gate in an organized and well-supported way that aligns with LL goals with no guessing and less duplication of effort by various groups
2. The opportunity to help build a successful 2023+era mentorship project with the others who are committed to #1, and
3. Being available regularly to share some of the benefits I’ve experienced from being in SL for 15 years - as they may apply to what someone new would like to do in SL - maybe in the form of a quick tip from a new friend who is a bit more ‘in the know’, sometimes in helping someone to solve a problem or other times just helping someone figure something out.
   
   Maybe it can be thought of like keeping regular weekly “Office Hours”  for new Residents to ‘ask a mentor anything’, but from the perspective/experience of a fellow Resident who IS a volunteer mentor both by nature and by definition. I think peer to peer learning helps builds stronger communities and applied this way can help new Residents develop a sense of belonging more quickly.

I’ve had such a good time in Second Life! I’ve taken long breaks but I always come back. I’ve enjoyed doing so many wildly different things here and had so many amazing experiences and I have learned so much from so many fellow Residents, both casually in friends groups and formally in classes.
I think a new LL mentor project can fill a need that neither of those 2 fully cover.

(the rest is pretty rambly but tangentially related…)

I first signed up for SL in 2008 via a sidebar advertisement, so I’m in that odd place of ‘never an oldbie but long past a n00b’. Even at that time there were people who felt that SL had already peaked and ‘was dying’ so I’ve literally been hearing that for 15 years…and yet when I look at the current GDP, it tells another story. ={@.~}=

I wasn’t an experienced gamer, I was interested because the advertisement said something about ‘creating things in the world’. I had Poser, Bryce and Photoshop and I enjoyed making scenes and some web graphics so something in the ad resonated as ‘oh hey, this is a unique kind of creative space’. I had looked at a couple of ‘virtual spaces’ but they were solo, limited, and the bar to creation was high. I didn’t know anything about SL at all as a platform and I didn’t know anyone who was in SL.
I don’t remember anyone offering to help me at the spawn point, I just remember about 5-6 other new people bumping into each other with unpleasant sounds and camera shakes, the odd magically appearing keyboards with typing animations/sounds (odd because weren’t WE humans the typists, not the avatars? hm…) toast text covering a lot of the screen and I was struggling a lot to control my camera and movements. There was a tutorial about a torch that you had to complete before you could progress and it was confusing because I hadn’t ever done anything that was remotely similar to SL - the setup and UI felt overwhelming. I logged off that night telling myself that if I didn’t ‘get it’ by the next day, I’d give up.
 

I can think of several small but pivotal things that a mentor would have probably quickly helped me sort out much better and faster at first. After a few weeks of flailing about, I met an informal mentor who had set up an inworld parcel on a themed private estate, a place to claim a room, set home, change clothes, and rez a few decor prims. She had an associated group specifically for women new to SL and was committed to promoting it as a resource. She took me and others under her wing - she and that group helped us all so much - it was a very positive experience. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Fauve Aeon
Clarity

[Sid Nagy]

5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..and yet, some in this thread argue vociferously that mentors "must be paid"!!1! Maybe..not cut out to be Mentors. IJS

I've been a teacher al my life. Due to an eye sight problem I retired early.
But I still did a few years volunteer work at a school (two mornings a week).
Did I get a salary? No.
Did I get a small compensation for my time, traveling costs etc: Yes.

Bottum line: Quality volunteers cost money and they are worth it.

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I've been a teacher al my life. Due to an eye sight problem I retired early.
But I still did a few years volunteer work at a school (two mornings a week).
Did I get a salary? No.
Did I get a small compensation for my time, traveling costs etc: Yes.

Bottum line: Quality volunteers cost money and they are worth it.

Just a tiny counter-point:

My father used to volunteer to help new English readers with their reading. (Dad only had a Masters degree, which was not in English or teaching, but he came from a family of Teachers.)

Strangers would come to his house for one-on-one tutoring. For free.  

Not everyone feels a need to charge.

Altruism!

ETA: In dad's case, people came to HIS house, so there wasn't really any compensation compared to your case, except for his "time".

Edited June 14, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Petronilla Whitfield]

I think that the success of the new mentor program will depend, in large part, on the ability of mentors to communicate effectively with new users. 

It seems likely to me that many new users will come in with expectations based on playing other online games such as RDR2 and GTA. Effective mentors will need to be sufficiently familiar with gameplay in popular MMOGs in order to understand what aspects of SL are confusing to newbies who grew up playing such games.  I know that I’m not. I do not expect to volunteer this time around.

I was a mentor in the last iteration of the program. The part that I found difficult was that new users seemed to expect me to know everything about Second Life and got easily frustrated when asking about areas unfamiliar to me. For example, I have no experience whatsoever with the sexual aspects of SL—and have no interest in it. 

My suggestions are these. First, that the Moles supervising mentors find channels through which mentors with lots of gaming experience outside SL can tutor/serve as a resource for mentors who don’t. Second, that Lindens help new users manage their expectations of mentors—lead them to expect that no mentor will know everything, and that a question may need to be addressed to more than one mentor before finding an answer.

Will the program be successful? I hope so.
 

[Sid Nagy]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Just a tiny counter-point:

My father used to volunteer to help new English readers with their reading. (Dad only had a Masters degree, which was not in English or teaching, but he came from a family of Teachers.)

Strangers would come to his house for one-on-one tutoring. For free.

Not everyone feels a need to charge.

Altruism!

No there is no need, that is true. But it is a lot easier to demand certain quality if one pays a bit.

A lot of people think teaching is a piece of cake. It isn't.
Yes, there are naturals who can do it without a degree . I've seen them during my time in schools, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Badly teaching mentors are worse than none at all IMHO.

I personally would not even volunteer to be a mentor if it was payed, but that is another story.
I keep doing what I've always done. I help people when someone in need crosses my path in SL.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Jaylinbridges]

4 hours ago, Fauve Aeon said:

After a few weeks of flailing about, I met an informal mentor who had set up an inworld parcel on a themed private estate, a place to claim a room, set home, change clothes, and rez a few decor prims. She had an associated group specifically for women new to SL and was committed to promoting it as a resource. She took me and others under her wing - she and that group helped us all so much - it was a very positive experience. 

^^^ This is what will improve retention.  The 3rd stage of mentoring, the "buddy system", where someone actually shows you what SL is about, and puts you in a home area where you can ask others questions. 

I don't agree that showing a newbie how to walk and run and turn has anything to do with retention. Show them the real SL, not some newbie mentoring center from strangers with a script, and they will want to figure out the rest.  Finding someone who will spend the time with you is the  problem.  That's why newbies often ask about SLex first.  Even an escort will help you understand SL on a more personal level than a 2hr shift mentor at a first landing point center.

My first venture to a help center was at Violet.  A friendly lady was watching me try to change clothes and took pity on me.  She invited me to her fancy home on her full sim, where she told me about her SL job as a "private stripper". She gave me a free demo too (where I learned how to dance), and then took me to a Freeebie store where I could find avatars and clothes that were a  big step up from the SL schoolboy default I was using.  I soon lost track of her, since once I got out in the SL world everyone was friendly and helpful.  

I also met another person at Violet who loved to chat.  My first friend actually - and we spent many hours discussing the state of just about everything.  She also told me those little huts at the edge of Violet were actually private homes, and all I had to do was set my Home to one, and it was mine.  That was bad advice I found out, but funny at the time, since it was in viewing range of the central hub there.  I thought I had privacy in my "own" little home on Violet.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

4 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

My first venture to a help center was at Violet.

oh god. glad you got out alive. 

[Jaylinbridges]

38 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

oh god. glad you got out alive. 

Violet still has an old world charm.  Some Barnesworth Anubis original prim bushes (texture on a half sphere) are still in the garden areas.  In the central hub I only found 3 attractive nude ladies, another with questionable gender, and a robot.  All being quiet.  Typical G-rated Linden region I guess.  The signs and LM's to other Linden sites was useful.  Even listing Linden Realms as a place to earn lindens by collecting crystals.

[Blaise Glendevon]

10 hours ago, RangiUtu said:

The best mentors are those people who help out of kindness and not out of some sort of "status" by being selected by the Lindens. THAT is paying it forward, not what they've got planned.

Why would those of us who have volunteered sign up for a position that requires a dedicated investment of time with no compensation if we weren't interested in helping new member?

[Blaise Glendevon]

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..and yet, some in this thread argue vociferously that mentors "must be paid"!!1! Maybe..not cut out to be Mentors. IJS

Mentors should be paid. This should be a paid, full-time position like customer service or the GM position in other MMOs and online communities. But, LL has not chosen to pay them. So, they'll probably work in smaller increments of time like museum docents and other volunteers. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Mentors should be paid. This should be a paid, full-time position like customer service or the GM position in other MMOs and online communities. But, LL has not chosen to pay them. So, they'll probably work in smaller increments of time like museum docents night watchmen and other volunteers. 

I'm sorry but this is what popped into my head. 🤭

 

[elleevelyn]

6 hours ago, Petronilla Whitfield said:

 

It seems likely to me that many new users will come in with expectations based on playing other online games such as RDR2 and GTA. Effective mentors will need to be sufficiently familiar with gameplay in popular MMOGs in order to understand what aspects of SL are confusing to newbies who grew up playing such games.
 

yes agree

this was also true the last time (as you aware). New accounts often  use terms like game, player, spawn, level up, etc

so my advice to the new mentors is that is best to know what the new accounts are meaning when they use these terms and engage with the  new person accordingly. Like if they ask: How do I play this game? Tell them how to play and don't give them an essay on how SL is not a game. When they ask about First Person view, tell them to press "M" key and they don't need to be lectured that is Mouselook in SL. Same when they say Spawn. You (new mentor) knows they are referring to Landing Point. But at that moment is not necessary to correct them

the new accounts will come to learn the SL equivalents of these in time. Is just that in the first hours/days they don't really need to be educated on the trivialities of SL

Edited June 15, 2023 by elleevelyn
typs

[Marianne Little]

5 hours ago, elleevelyn said:

yes agree

this was also true the last time (as you aware). New accounts often  use terms like game, player, spawn, level up, etc

so my advice to the new mentors is that is best to know what the new accounts are meaning when they use these terms and engage with the  new person accordingly. Like if they ask: How do I play this game? Tell them how to play and don't give them an essay on how SL is not a game. When they ask about First Person view, tell them to press "M" key and they don't need to be lectured that is Mouselook in SL. Same when they say Spawn. You (new mentor) knows they are referring to Landing Point. But at that moment is not necessary to correct them

the new accounts will come to learn the SL equivalents of these in time. Is just that in the first hours/days they don't really need to be educated on the trivialities of SL

I think this is so important, I would feel unwelcome if I was corrected constantly "We do not use this word here".

And the same time, it would have to be said, but it could be in a conversation. Casually said: "SL has its own lingo. Many do not even know what Spawn means, because in SL it is Landing Point".