Is this new round of mentors a good idea?

[Phil Deakins]

17 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..and yet, some in this thread argue vociferously that mentors "must be paid"!!1! Maybe..not cut out to be Mentors. IJS

If you go back and look at those posts, you'll see that the idea of being paid in cash or kind is not so that mentors can get some remuneration, but because LL is looking for people to work for them for free. At least that's my attitude and I've made several posts about it. LL can afford to pay, either in cash or kind, but they want the work to be done for nothing and, unfortunately, they know that there are people who will work for them for nothing.

[Qie Niangao]

18 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..and yet, some in this thread argue vociferously that mentors "must be paid"!!1! Maybe..not cut out to be Mentors. IJS

First we train the newbies to look for the union label.

I dunno. I suspect if I were given this program to design, I'd take all the qualified free volunteers I could get, expecting that to be more than I could put in the budget, so that's just more happy people all around. Maybe some who would make excellent Mentors will instead apply to be paid Mentor-coordinator Moles. I'd probably need a few more of those, too.

[xDancingStarx]

23 hours ago, RangiUtu said:

The best mentors are those people who help out of kindness and not out of some sort of "status" by being selected by the Lindens. THAT is paying it forward, not what they've got planned.

I'm curious to hear your concept of how to bring these kind people to Welcome Island and manage all of this without giving them some kind of "status".

[Lindal Kidd]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:37 AM, Marigold Devin said:

what rankles for me is having to commit to a couple of solid hours, and that makes it seem like a job, a chore, whereas when you can dip in and out during a session of leisure and pleasure, then it keeps Second Life a place for leisure and pleasure.

Seconded.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

33 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Seconded.

I was able to dip in and dip out in the mentor program I was part of years ago, which worked for me as I was empoyed full time and had commitments and things to get done on my off time. The freedom to help when it was convenient for me worked. Maybe there could be another group of mentors who didn't have to comply with the time commitments laid out in the current interation.

[Rolig Loon]

11 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I was able to dip in and dip out in the mentor program I was part of years ago, which worked for me as I was employed full time and had commitments and things to get done on my off time. The freedom to help when it was convenient for me worked. Maybe there could be another group of mentors who didn't have to comply with the time commitments laid out in the current iteration.

I would guess that the coordinators are trying to assure that there is somebody available at all times. It's hard to do that if you have no idea when mentors are likely to show up; hence, the need for some sort of schedule.  It wouldn't be good if everyone decided, randomly, to come for a half hour at 8:00 SLT and nobody showed up at noon.  That said, I am also pretty confident that the coordinators will be flexible enough to make an ad hoc adjustment when a mentor says they they have a conflict for their "regular" time or if they want to switch times with someone else.  This doesn't feel like a sweat shop and flexible scheduling isn't rocket science.

I volunteered for many years at the reference desk for Community Virtual Library and I coordinated the desk for several of those years.  We had a regular schedule for volunteers but people were always free to come and go as they pleased, as long as we knew what was going on.  We even had one small group of "floaters" who never knew exactly when they might be free but were on an "on call" list for those times when it looked like the scheduled volunteer wouldn't be available  --  exactly as you are suggesting. 

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

27 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I would guess that the coordinators are trying to assure that there is somebody available at all times.

Makes sense

[Luna Bliss]

5 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

On 6/14/2023 at 8:07 AM, RangiUtu said:

The best mentors are those people who help out of kindness and not out of some sort of "status" by being selected by the Lindens. THAT is paying it forward, not what they've got planned.

I'm curious to hear your concept of how to bring these kind people to Welcome Island and manage all of this without giving them some kind of "status".

Now this would be an interesting discussion, and one that might better enable people to decide if they want to "feed their soul" and "pay it forward".
What, exactly, does this mean?

[Love Zhaoying]

34 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What, exactly, does this mean?

Which part of what you quoted are you asking about?

5 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

I'm curious to hear your concept of how to bring these kind people to Welcome Island and manage all of this without giving them some kind of "status".

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

What, exactly, does this mean?

Which

Well, Love, I have mixed feelings about all this.
I'm a big believer in love and giving from the heart without thoughts of compensation when possible, but certainly not in all circumstances.
Or perhaps it would be better to say the compensation comes in the form of knowing I'm making the world a better place, and so this is an ethical stance I value and so I feel good when adhering to my standards. It is a value sorely needed these days as too many think only of themselves and their needs.

But I have to wonder, why is a corporation acting like a spiritual teacher? Did a Guru buy LL?
Or what armchair Psychologist (who is waltzing into spiritual psychobabble on the marketing team) must we now be subjected to?
Certainly it's good if a corporation promotes ethical values, but we must always question the reasons when dealing with a money-making entity.

For me, personally, I think of SL as a community and so I have no qualms about giving back to the community I've been given much from, and some supervision from LL is welcome as the lack of it is likely what caused the problems in the previous mentoring iteration.
But in order to feel like giving I think we need, as humans, to feel that we are being given something. Then we feel gratitude for the gift, and feel like giving. I don't believe in selfless giving (unless there are Anandamayi Ma's and Yogananda's roaming the regions -- then I'll make an exception).

Regarding the status question -- people do feel a status is conferred upon them when they are given a role of authority. The problem is when the status or power is all they get out of it, and don't think about the needs of someone they're managing, or don't feel they're 'giving back' from a place of gratitude, but instead are caught in having 'power over' another. Balance between self and others is always needed in such interactions.
It's something all need to learn, and I hope the mentoring program teaches people this.

I really don't care if whoever owns LL now is raking in so much cash they could or should hire mentors -- I only care about what's happening here on the ground and how we can affect things for the better with those around us. I try to stay away from and ignore the centers of power these days.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I don't think this mentoring position should be paid a all.  No "status" should be bestowed on anyone, either.  It should be resident to resident helping.   People will volunteer for all the wrong reasons.

"I'm just here for 2 hours of silent afk parking for the paycheck."

"I'm just here to have banning rights to kick out anyone I want for any reason." 

If you want to help new users by joining the official group and getting some training to spend some time being nice to noobies, do it.

If you don't want to volunteer your time, don't do it.

If you want money and power, find a different way to get it.

[Love Zhaoying]

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, Love, I have mixed feelings about all this.
I'm a big believer in love and giving from the heart without thoughts of compensation when possible, but certainly not in all circumstances.
Or perhaps it would be better to say the compensation comes in the form of knowing I'm making the world a better place, and so this is an ethical stance I value and so I feel good when adhering to my standards. It is a value sorely needed these days as too many think only of themselves and their needs.

But I have to wonder, why is a corporation acting like a spiritual teacher? Did a Guru buy LL?
Or what armchair Psychologist (who is waltzing into spiritual psychobabble on the marketing team) must we now be subjected to?
Certainly it's good if a corporation promotes ethical values, but we must always question the reasons when dealing with a money-making entity.

For me, personally, I think of SL as a community and so I have no qualms about giving back to the community I've been given much from, and some supervision from LL is welcome as the lack of it is likely what caused the problems in the previous mentoring iteration.
But in order to feel like giving I think we need, as humans, to feel that we are being given something. Then we feel gratitude for the gift, and feel like giving. I don't believe in selfless giving (unless there are Anandamayi Ma's and Yogananda's roaming the regions -- then I'll make an exception).

Regarding the status question -- people do feel a status is conferred upon them when they are given a role of authority. The problem is when the status or power is all they get out of it, and don't think about the needs of someone they're managing, or don't feel they're 'giving back' from a place of gratitude, but instead are caught in having 'power over' another. Balance between self and others is always needed in such interactions.
It's something all need to learn, and I hope the mentoring program teaches people this.

I really don't care if whoever owns LL now is raking in so much cash they could or should hire mentors -- I only care about what's happening here on the ground and how we can affect things for the better with those around us. I try to stay away from and ignore the centers of power these days.

While it would be fun, I don't feel like addressing all of your good points (because others will see much of it as "off-topic").

But in particular:

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But I have to wonder, why is a corporation acting like a spiritual teacher? Did a Guru buy LL?

My understanding is - Second Life had a Mentors program before. I assume it was also "unpaid" before, and depended on the "altruism" of volunteer Mentors.  (Sorry, I use the word "altruism" a lot in these discussions to drive my points home - not to you of course - because I think a lot of people forget about it.) Unless something changed, do you think LL is acting different now than they did in any previous Mentor program? I just want to understand where you're coming from.

Since you brought up the "spiritual teacher" aspect - and you and I know each other's backgrounds:  My own Guru would say, "Do what's best for you, do what's best for the world." And, whatever you do, do it without attachment to a result.  So from that perspective, I would take away: "Is it 'good' and 'right' to try and help people?" and, "Can I try and help people without attachment to whether it yields the result I hoped for?"  In this case, that may mean: "Can I try and help people whether or not Linden Lab appreciates it, whether the people I am trying to help appreciate it, and whether it gives me a sense of accomplishment", etc.  

Kind of like Sid Nagy's, and my own father's example of "Tutoring" people: You don't "Tutor" someone "only if you think it will work out".  You "Tutor" someone because it is the right thing to do.  You shouldn't let a possible "failed student" prevent you from helping someone.  (And that part is aside from the "compensation" part of the discussion.)

..wanders off to ponder and attempt to be on-topic..

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

If you don't want to volunteer your time, don't do it.

I think "time and commitment" were my biggest hold-backs so far..except I keep thinking, Saturday Mornings would be awfully easy for a couple hours.  And a lot of people are probably online then..being a weekend..

* Halp! I'm falling down a Slippery Slope! *

I'd probably fail the Training / Test anyway.

LOL!

Edited June 15, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

altruism

I love this concept, and we need more of it in society:

ALTRUISM: the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

 

For me though, I don't consider it "selfless" -- I always get a lot of good things back when I give to others out of my concern for them.

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Unless something changed, do you think LL is acting different now than they did in any previous Mentor program? I just want to understand where you're coming from.

I believe they plan to supervise the program to a greater degree, in the current iteration.

[Luna Bliss]

20 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I don't think this mentoring position should be paid a all.  No "status" should be bestowed on anyone, either.  It should be resident to resident helping.   People will volunteer for all the wrong reasons.

I don't see a status being "bestowed", rather the status occurs when one teaches another. Not that they're at a higher or better level in any way, but there are differing levels of power in this type of interaction --  the teacher has more power when they are helping another -- the one receiving help is in a more vulnerable position (because they are needing help).

The teacher should recognize the power they have, and so take care when dealing with those they are teaching.

I am the same as a merchant here -- the customer has given me power by trusting me to deliver what they paid for. So I act professionally when dealing with them and consider their needs to a greater degree, knowing I have this power.

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I believe they plan to supervise the program to a greater degree, in the current iteration.

That sounds like a good idea, and doesn't imply (to me at least) any "acting like a spiritual teacher", although now I see how it could be taken that way - at least with LL Moles mentoring the Mentors with "positive intent".

Edited June 15, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I believe they plan to supervise the program to a greater degree, in the current iteration.

That sounds like a good idea, and doesn't imply any "acting like a spiritual teacher", although now I see how it could be taken that way - at least with LL Moles mentoring the Mentors with "positive intent".

Well, I was really just making a silly joke, about a Guru buying LL

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, I was really just making a silly joke, about a Guru buying LL

For shame!! ❤️

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I don't think this mentoring position should be paid a all.  No "status" should be bestowed on anyone, either.  It should be resident to resident helping.   People will volunteer for all the wrong reasons.

"I'm just here for 2 hours of silent afk parking for the paycheck."

"I'm just here to have banning rights to kick out anyone I want for any reason." 

If you want to help new users by joining the official group and getting some training to spend some time being nice to noobies, do it.

If you don't want to volunteer your time, don't do it.

If you want money and power, find a different way to get it.

I get what you are saying and agree with a lot of it but I think the reason some are saying it should be a paid position is that the Lab is coming across as a bit bossy with some of their dictates of what and how one should Mentor with the stipulations of the viewer, the active times, the Mentor discord channels etc. It comes across in ways where it seems less of a democratic community effort that can be participated in vs them looking to hire free labour who will abide by their authoritarian rules for how one can be part of their Mentor group. From that perspective I can also understand that some see this as a employer/employee relationship where there should be some recompense for the effort.

[Jaylinbridges]

After 19 pages, plus those posts hidden by the moles, no one has suggested the ultimate solution to not really paying the volunteers, but still giving them something for their time.  Pay the mentors in Social Casino coins!  10,000  coins/hour sounds fair enough. 

Then, since there will be many boring off hours when the mentor is waiting for a victim newbie, install those slots and blackjack tables in the mentor's SL location.  This will keep the mentors busy and not dozing off during their shift.  Adding how to cheat at blackjack could also be a plus course for the new resident.  And another plus, it is all G-rated!

I thought there was a purpose for the social casino, and now we know.

[AzureWaves]

A couple of dollars for volunteering would not cause a wave of people to volunteer "for the wrong reasons". It's so far below minimum wage that it's basically the equivalent of a gift card to show appreciation. And appreciation by giving the volunteers access to the programs they're expected to know and show other residents is reasonable. It's uncomfortable for me as a resident and a person that works for a living, to see Linden Lab, a profitable company, use volunteers rather than hire for help. The volunteers can 'opt-out' of getting an incentive if they're feeling altruistic, but from reading the forum, many residents would appreciate something, since they're living on a budget.

[Eirynne Sieyes]

Too much structure for me, but I think the mentor program is a wonderful idea and I commend all those who have volunteered to help our new residents.

Crossing fingers and toes that it all works out.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Eirynne Sieyes

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

After 19 pages, plus those posts hidden by the moles, no one has suggested the ultimate solution to not really paying the volunteers, but still giving them something for their time.  Pay the mentors in Social Casino coins!  10,000  coins/hour sounds fair enough. 

Then, since there will be many boring off hours when the mentor is waiting for a victim newbie, install those slots and blackjack tables in the mentor's SL location.  This will keep the mentors busy and not dozing off during their shift.  Adding how to cheat at blackjack could also be a plus course for the new resident.  And another plus, it is all G-rated!

I thought there was a purpose for the social casino, and now we know.

Didn't the Social Casino shut down by now?

[AzureWaves]

Gift card is not unreasonable for LL either, whenever I get help from a Linden (support ticket), they always ask me if via a survey how to thank the Linden employee who helped me, with a gift card or a long lunch. So on top of pay, the employee also gets incentives/extra thanks on top of that.