Is this new round of mentors a good idea?

[Sid Nagy]

 

The last time we had mentors, wasn't a real big success.
What makes LL think that it will end differently (namely in a success) this time?

Thoughts?
 

[Caeruleiae]

It might-but it depends a lot on who they allow to be mentors. Some people seem like they are so knowledgeable and they can help with so much-but their people skills are atrocious either right away or after a bit of time. Those people would only be good mentors if they didn't have to directly interact with people. If ll gets the right people in there though-it can certainly help with retention.

That aside-I don't think ll quite understands what "paying it forward" actually means. I don't see how mentoring-which will be basically doing what ll employees should be doing in the first place and should have been doing all along-would fall under that umbrella. How is ensuring that new people to your product or service are able to use it considered "paying it forward". It's in your basic job description as the company who owns a virtual space. That's not to say they don't try-because I think they do try to help new and old residents alike. It's just not paying anything forward-that's a really weird label to put on something like this and I don't understand why they put emphasis on that. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Caeruleiae

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

 

That aside-I don't think ll quite understands what "paying it forward" actually means. I don't see how mentoring-which will be basically doing what ll employees should be doing in the first place and should have been doing all along-would fall under that umbrella. How is ensuring that new people to your product or service are able to use it considered "paying it forward". It's in your basic job description as the company who owns a virtual space. That's not to say they don't try-because I think they do try to help new and old residents alike. It's just not paying anything forward-that's a really weird label to put on something like this and I don't understand why they put emphasis on that. 

It's what I've always called it when I've helped people over the years.  I was lucky and had a very patient woman work with me for a couple of hours when I was new.  So if someone asks me for help, I " pay it forward ".   It's not LL paying it forward, it's us with the knowledge and time doing so.  Feels great, too.

[Sid Nagy]

Didn't the last round of mentors ended because of the tons of drama and self importance by a chunk of mentors involved back then?
It has been a while, so I might be mistaking.

[Nika Talaj]

Well, there were obvious fixable issues with earlier LL mentor programs, so I'm hopeful.  Personally, I think the most obvious flaw was a nearly complete lack of ongoing monitoring/supervision.  If you're going to make use of volunteers, you can't just set them loose.  You really have to have actual employee(s) as part of the program, otherwise as Sid remembers, it could easily be sunk by internecine drama and inane power struggles.

Another problem seemed to be a lack of guidelines about the sorts of things mentors should be dispensing advice about.  Finding new activities - yes.  Specific relationships - no.

Another problem was giving mentors "enforcement" powers at hubs.  LL seemed to recognize the problems with that early on.

In my limited contacts with LL customer service folks, I've been struck by their bemusing positivity and patience.  Hopefully new mentors will be screened for those characteristics as well.

I probably won't be applying.  I love to be helpful, but I don't think I would ever be accused of bemusing positivity 😇

ETA:  I wonder what this means ... what other "pay it forward" programs are being contemplated, hmm? (my bold)

Quote

Second Life Mentors will be the first ripple in the pond of “Paying It Forward”. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Nika Talaj

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Didn't the last round of mentors ended because of the tons of drama and self importance by a chunk of mentors involved back then?
It has been a while, so I might be mistaking.

I couldn't speak about any 'official' mentors.  The woman who helped me was just someone who saw me struggling with a box attached and talked me through it.  Then, how to find and wear what I unpacked.  

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

I probably won't be applying.

I initially thought I'd consider it until they said I had to use the Official Viewer.  I realize new users will be using it but I can't be bothered to learn it's limitation.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

21 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I initially thought I'd consider it until they said I had to use the Official Viewer.  I realize new users will be using it but I can't be bothered to learn it's limitation.

Ditto

[Katherine Heartsong]

32 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I initially thought I'd consider it until they said I had to use the Official Viewer.  I realize new users will be using it but I can't be bothered to learn it's limitation.

Between that and the whole Google barrier, I'm out. Too tied into the FS viewer capabilities like the Custom AOs to ever go back. (Plus, for whatever reason, FS gives me more FPS with exactly the same settings.)

Edited June 8, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Sid Nagy]

But I can totally see that it is very confusing for someone who is just a few minutes in SL, to hear that they have the "wrong" viewer.

I will not sign up. I've been teaching for the best part of my life in RL. I've done that long enough.
Bur if someone crosses my path and needs help with something, I will not run away.

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Sid Nagy
Added the last sentence.

[Caeruleiae]

52 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's what I've always called it when I've helped people over the years.  I was lucky and had a very patient woman work with me for a couple of hours when I was new.  So if someone asks me for help, I " pay it forward ".   It's not LL paying it forward, it's us with the knowledge and time doing so.  Feels great, too.

 I enjoy helping people too-much like I think most people do. I think most people help others whenever and wherever they can. I still don't think it falls under the umbrella of paying it forward-differences of opinion I suppose. I've always just considered that something people do-when they want or can.

It's still not ll paying it forward though and that's what ll is calling it-their first ripple in the pond of "paying it forward"-I think it's disingenuous of ll to make that claim. I'm overly cynical of ll right now and it's probably clouding my judgment on this one.  

I am very grateful other people in sl help out other users too-not just new people. I see it as just something people do-because people are generally good people and want to help. I have used the help countless times-and have gladly helped others too. I hope the new mentor program works wonderfully and helps with retention. I should've left my cynicism and currently miffed attitude with ll off. Although I think my newly acquired cynicism of ll is well deserved-I should probably avoid topics where opinions are asked about something they are or are not doing-haha. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

 

The last time we had mentors, wasn't a real big success.
What makes LL think that it will end differently (namely in a success) this time?

Thoughts?
 

Heck, I NEED a mentor! And I only trust about 3 people on here for it. So why would I trust some stranger? Maybe is too advanced for normal mentor?

[xDancingStarx]

There are already helpers at the other non Linden starter locations, and it's also, in general, a good idea to have helpers at the Linden locations with more presence than there currently is.

Instead of searching for potential issues like "What if those new mentors think they're a better SL member than me?" "What if they get more power than me and abuse it?" "Oh there's just gonna be drama" I prefer to see it from the perspective of how confusing SL is to get started and that it's just good for a newbie to have someone to ask a question or two.

Edit: I wonder if this has to do with those new hubs that are going to be introduced. What were they called again?

Also, Linden should definitely be looking out for people who also speak Spanish.

Edited June 8, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[Alwin Alcott]

 seeing how the mentors ended, and it weren't just a few that caused that , and the demand for LL viewer, i say "great there gets some help again" but i won't join.

I also think it shouldn't be tags that get handed out, but a color for their avatar name that ONLY works on the starter islands. Not possible to take it inworld when not at duty.
Tags are possible to be made by everyone.

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

I took a look at the applications and the hard requirement to use the official viewer would prevent me from being one because....Linux. IMHO, LL should have never abandoned the official Linux viewer and upgraded their build system to do 64-bit. Yes I know, there aren't a lot of Linux users in SL, but they are mostly very skilled at dealing with tech issues and solving problems that residents have trouble with.

[Coffee Pancake]

Quote

 

SECOND LIFE
“OUR LIFE”

O - Orienteering 
U - Universal 
R - Residents 

L - Learning with 
I -  Inspiration 
F - Fun and 
E - Enthusiasm 

 

@Linden Lab

The problem with mentors wasn't that they didn't have an exciting internsqsue corporate motto.

It's that LL set them up, gave them tremendous power, and walked away.

 

I was a mentor, and Iive helper. Both services have been desperately needed since they were shut down for stupid management reasons. I am glad this is happening and will be applying, but if you just copy paste what was here before with a dash more coolaid, you get the exact same outcomes.

Also .. This is not "paying it forward", this is volunteering to do customer support for a corporation in exchange for connection and borrowed authority

 

You don't want to know how many times - I'm a mentor I can get you banned - got thrown around.

 

Please. Hire these people. Make them contractors. Minimum wage. Make them work under dedicated accounts with the last name Mentor. Limit where they can go and what they can do. Monitor them. Hold them to the same standard you expect from other staff. Enforce compartmentalization like you do with Moles. 

[Qie Niangao]

They won't usually ask how to be adfarmers, so I could be courteous enough. And I have no problem with the Linden viewer, nor Google.

(I didn't notice, though: where does this Google account requirement appear? Just the Google Forms application? I'm fine with Google Workspace apps, figure they'll not expect me to create a pivot table right away, so whatever.)

BUT… they'll expect voice, won't they? They don't say so, but realistically, most mentees will either be using voice or be asking how to use voice, and either way I'm screwed. 

To the actual question: I think @Nika Talaj nails it: if there's structured direct supervision of the mentors this time, there should be less opportunity for things to run amok. And now they have a cadre of Moles who can be trusted to maintain order, improving the program's prospects. It could succeed indefinitely.

[Qie Niangao]

9 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Make them work under dedicated accounts with the last name Mentor. 

That would definitely help.

[xDancingStarx]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

BUT… they'll expect voice, won't they?

The mic is enabled by default (unless I'm terribly mistaken), so there are new users walking around trying to talk to people, and from that perspective it would make sense to require voice even though it would suck for many (also on that note, many new users don't realize that their mic is on.) Then again you have to ask the question how perfect do you want to make it without paying anything.

Edited June 8, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[SabrinaCooke]

The mentor program shouldn't be a volunteer program. It should be a paid position, like the Moles. Users shouldn't be responsible for providing what is essentially free customer service to other users; that should be Linden Lab's responsibility, given that they're the ones who own and profit from this platform. I agree with the others who commented above that this isn't paying it forward. It's taking advantage of people's goodwill to cut down on overhead costs.

Edited June 8, 2023 by SabrinaCooke

[Nika Talaj]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Please. Hire these people. Make them contractors. Minimum wage. Make them work under dedicated accounts with the last name Mentor. Limit where they can go and what they can do. Monitor them. Hold them to the same standard you expect from other staff. Enforce compartmentalization like you do with Moles. 

QFT.  I didn't mention this because it's too late now, LL's already launched it as a volunteer effort.  But Coffee is voicing a piece of business 101 that LL has always been reluctant to believe, starting with Philip's love affair with the exploitation - oh, sorry, crowd-sourcing - of free or underpaid talent ... YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

If LL really wants a successful ongoing mentor program, yes, mentors should be paid (even if it's token), and use dedicated accounts.

I think that LL has begun launching new LSL commands with documentation actually written by LL.  For many years all new LSL documentation was provided by volunteer residents, who had to painstakingly discover the behavior of new commands or parameters via exhaustive testing.  That was a barrier to LSL uptake, as well as an incredible waste of those volunteers' time.  So, BRAVO, LL!  

If this mentor program has troubles, LL, please learn from your own experience with LSL documentation and consider Coffee's recommendation. 

[Sid Nagy]

30 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

@Linden Lab

Please. Hire these people. Make them contractors. Minimum wage. Make them work under dedicated accounts with the last name Mentor. Limit where they can go and what they can do. Monitor them. Hold them to the same standard you expect from other staff. Enforce compartmentalization like you do with Moles. 

This would be a perfect solution to avoid the drama that developed the last time.
But this is not the free ride LL is hoping for.
We are supposed to do the footwork, they keep the money. Philip's Love Machine theories remember?

Edited June 8, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Love Zhaoying]

Addressing the question posed in the thread title: "Is this new round of mentors a good idea?"

Even if it was the best idea ever, people would still find a reason to complain about it. Even people suggesting "SL needs mentors", will find reasons to complain.

You just can't please everyone.

Meanwhile, some of us are over here like, "that'll do".

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
That'll do.

[Bree Giffen]

Tormentor! Where do I sign up? Mentor? Ohhh. Nevermind. 

My only experience was having a mentor tell me that older players are not allowed in the new player area because I initially picked the brand new punk girl avatar offered at startup. I had to instruct the mentor about it. But, I think a new round of mentors is a good idea. LL will have learned from it's past mistakes and will no doubt create a winning formula for mentorship. We all know how complicated SL is and LL finally creating something to address that is what we need... or they need... the newbies. 

[Sasy Scarborough]

I signed up, I find that I did at first balk at must use SL viewer but that does make the most sense, and it is also important for people that interact or assist people in SL to actually have more insight into the differences in viewers. Knowing the basics of differences between the two should be a course in itself, especially for content creators to understand what their customers may experience.

I do agree that the mentor accounts should be compensated in some way eventually, premium accounts etc. But my main request would be the ability to log into a designated account.

Lindens of course would know that ______ Mentor is Sasy Scarborough but when off the clock so to speak your main account should have the ability to be not on the clock, and I know from many years of SL customer service that is very important.