Is this new round of mentors a good idea?

[Yukiko Yeshto]

I notice mainly 2 goals being mentioned in the discussion and the application forms:
1- basic assistance to get started as @Sid Nagy also layed out in this post ;
2- further assistance to become part of the overall SL community and motivate newcomers to stay.

In the past, many have mentioned how long it took them to get started with the viewer basics at all, and that it was often enough pretty overwhelming. With that in mind, all the ideas being put into what a mentor position could be, or what those mentors would help with, seem to me a bit too enthusiastic/optimistic and underestimating the effort needed to provide that kind of overall assistance. It also feels a bit like reinventing the wheel when instead you could just continue to build the shell with experienced residents from the many, already existing groups/communities that share various interests.

If I had a say in this, I would - agreeing here with @Sid Nagy - let mentors assist with the basic skills only. As for everything else, I'd prefer to work with who and what is already available. We have a huge number of well-known, popular and respectable groups/communities in SL who provide help for topics such as building, scripting, blogging, fashion, exploring, driving, roleplaying, and many more. Some of them are known on the grid for almost as long as SL exists. Networking with these groups (e.g. through appointed contact persons, portal HUBs, special welcome events etc.) would also be a nice way to support and acknowledge their long lasting efforts for the SL community. At the end of the day, people join and stay because they were able to make stable connections with people who share their interests.

TL;DR: Basically a good idea but lots of room for improvement.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

I think it makes sense if LL is not providing "us users" with the "training materials list".  The list would / should evolve as the program is used based on feedback from Mentors and Moles. 

Plus, the fact each "team" of Mentors will have a "Mole Team Leader" implies that those Mentors will have access to a real expert: a Mole.

As far as "Third-Party Viewers" go - I think that Linden Lab has no obligation to train for those products, however - I see no reason Mentors cannot refer users to "Support Groups" / websites for the TPV's (and/or help if they have knowledge of the TPV).

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

4 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

I think the task of the LL mentor program should only be there for people who log in for the first time and need some help with the real basic problems they encounter:
how to open a box

I vote to add ... explaining why one box that looks the same has three wildly different possible ways of opening it.

You want a good example beyond Wear/Add that is tough for a new user to understand and why the UX sucks because its inconsistent? There you go.

I think that the general idea of a mentor program is a good idea. I think it'll take a lot longer to get right than most, including the LL folks, think. But start with the utter basics—I think Sid's list was a good start—and iterate/refine as it grows. It won't be perfect on launch but hopefully better than nothing.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Caeruleiae]

I have changed my mind-sort of and leaned more towards it not being a good idea at all.

The main reasons why I am leaning this direction and away from my original maybe is because of two people in this thread. I enjoy all the different discussions and the constant-stay on topic while I berate you for not staying on topic and chastise you like children because you're not listening is obnoxious as hell. Discussions are meant to flow-in and out of topic-but flow. Please stop gatekeeping topics unless they really venture way off the beaten path-then you can gently guide no need to start pushing like a bull.

The second reason is the whole thing of an ll rep saying we're not paying you and stating that this should be in some other topic on its own. No-just no. As Phil stated and others have also hinted at-the topic of compensation for this is very much on topic. Ll being lazy and not wanting to compensate people for doing their job for them does not change this at all. The more ll steps in and says let's not talk about compensation-the more they convince me they just want free labor because they're lazy. People are acting as if ll doesn't make millions a year and therefore people should just be glad for the opportunity to help people. Good grief people ll isn't poor-they have the funds to compensate people even if it's in something as miniscule to them as a premium account-which will cost them next to nothing at all. 

People help others in sl every single day-most new people wouldn't have stuck around at all if it weren't for some kind of help from others. Even as small as the forums are we see this every day. This isn't a matter of people saying I don't want to help-it's a matter of people saying why isn't this help worth anything at all to ll and why are they treating it like we should be compensating them for the opportunity.  These whole stay on topic responses to people who are discussing things like compensation-perhaps not the whole minimum wage part in complete detail but compensation in the general sense are really the off topic posts.  

[Mini Mole]

Hello and thank you to all who have applied to the Second Life Mentor's programs.  We've had a strong interest in applications coming in and are going through them as quickly as we can. I want to note for those applying to please be sure that your Second Life profile is viewable to the public in search so we can look up your profile as we're reviewing applications. This will speed up the process of going through your application. Thank you again! 

Mini Mole

[Persephone Emerald]

There is already an excellent model for a mentoring program: the Firestorm gateway and support groups. Linden Lab just needs to copy this model for it's own viewer and be sure every new user has this group (or these groups if they have multiple language groups) when they rez/spawn into the grid.

[Rowan Amore]

43 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

There is already an excellent model for a mentoring program: the Firestorm gateway and support groups. Linden Lab just needs to copy this model for it's own viewer and be sure every new user has this group (or these groups if they have multiple language groups) when they rez/spawn into the grid.

And...it shouldn't count against their group limit.  It should be a standard group for all new residents.  They can, of course, leave the group if they choose but it's also a good way to show how groups work.

Not sure if this is feasible but can't hurt to ask?

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchild said:

I'm just going to come out and say it this is why the retention is probably low and people leave I have read 14 pages of nothing but back and forth none of you listen to the warnings and not all of you but there's a good handful of people in here that think it should go one way or another my advice to you if you don't like what Linden Labs is doing then why don't you get off the form and go make your own volunteer program yes?

 

I mean everybody is so back and forth and if this is how everyone is going to act towards newcomers no wonder everybody gets confused there's already a steep learning curve but when you throw in everybody's back and forth y'all are making this more confusing than what it has to be again all of you but geez.. a little advice normally what happens is a employee works for a company gets as much information as possible sets off and creates their own company. there is no excuse why some of you who have been here for 17 years can't come up with a service of your own since you know Second Life In and Out.

 

There has been a total of three warnings and you expect Linden labs to listen to you? Y'all can't even listen to the mole, I only started two years ago so I wasn't around for the main volunteer section but if this is how most of y'all acted back then no wonder it went up in chaos, this just feels so divided and it doesn't have to be.. why don't we all just relax for a second and let the program roll out and take it from there shall we?

After spending 12 - 18 hours per day, 7 days a week, volunteering viewer tech support for more than 5 years, there's this thing called burn out. Why? Because no one else was doing it and people needed help but because those very same people would claim they had done the troubleshooting when they really had not...

Don't go there. You have no clue what it is really like trying to help clueless noobs, much less those who have been here more than a decade.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:42 PM, Sid Nagy said:

 

The last time we had mentors, wasn't a real big success.

I think the mentor program went pretty well for years, I was one for over a year but found it pretty exhausting after a while and stopped.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Sid Nagy]

4 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I think the mentor program went pretty well for years, I was one for over a year but found it pretty exhausting after a while and stopped.

I heard a lot of stories about self importance, bullying and drama about the mentors back than.
Of course I'm not implying that all mentors did so, but as far as I know all the drama going on was the main reason to stop the show back then.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

7 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I heard a lot of stories about self importance, bullying and drama about the mentors back than.

I never encountered that, maybe because i ignore stupid s**t and just focused on answering questions.

But all of that is a human problem, not a problem with the mentor program. Can people be absolutely retarded and end up with delusions of grandeur, yes they can, just look at social media.  

Edited June 12, 2023 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

I just wanted to add for anyone who decides to volunteer, you WILL get a lot of people asking how to put their c**k on. And now that we have a plethora of women's genitalia on the marketplace, that too. In fact that will probably be the bulk of your day. I would have a notecard ready to hand out that includes instructions. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[AmeliaJ08]

21 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I just wanted to add for anyone who decides to volunteer, you WILL get a lot of people asking how to put their c**k on. And now that we have a plethora of women's genitalia on the marketplace, that too. In fact that will probably be the bulk of your day. I would have a notecard ready to hand out that includes instructions. 

So we'll need LL to supply gloves, got it.

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

So we'll need LL to supply gloves, got it.

And eye bleach, one would hope!

[AzureWaves]

41 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I just wanted to add for anyone who decides to volunteer, you WILL get a lot of people asking how to put their c**k on. And now that we have a plethora of women's genitalia on the marketplace, that too. In fact that will probably be the bulk of your day. I would have a notecard ready to hand out that includes instructions. 

Mentors should send those people to contact the c*ck brands, why should they provide customer support too? They shouldn't. Let the brands handle that.

[Love Zhaoying]

21 minutes ago, AzureWaves said:

Mentors should send those people to contact the c*ck brands, why should they provide customer support too? They shouldn't. Let the brands handle that.

I disagree, if new users don't experience the humiliation of owning a freenis, mentors aren't doing their jobs properly!  Don't we want all n00bs to have the "full Second Life experience"?

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I think the mentor idea is/was a good one.  If the new program addresses the issues from previous tries it could be successful.  Screen volunteers, train them, don't give them power over others, keep the negative drama to a minimum, and check up on them often.

People volunteer for things they enjoy all the time and many will be willing and happy to give an hour or 2 each week to help-a-noob.  It's a feel-good service and the Lab does need to find a way to increase retention. 

I hope the program helps.

I will not be applying, but will continue to do what I am doing now.  If I run across a newbie struggling with a box on their head, looking lonely at a music venue, or stuck under a floor,  I will offer assistance. 

[Paul Hexem]

15 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

 I'd like to restrict this thread to a discussion of what the programme should look like, and whether or not it's a good idea.   

I think it should look like a paid position, with some authority and responsibility, then it's a good idea.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

1 hour ago, AzureWaves said:

Mentors should send those people to contact the c*ck brands, why should they provide customer support too? They shouldn't. Let the brands handle that.

In theory yes, I think most of the big brands have a customer service group now that they can refer to but as a noobie you may not know that. But a mentor could show you how to join the group to get the service. 

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

21 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I think it should look like a paid position, with some authority and responsibility, then it's a good idea.

I don't disagree with you but if you're paid then its a job and you can't just log out. There are people who jsut genuinely want to help out sometimes and talk to noobies about sl, but on their terms and on their own schedule.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

41 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I think it should look like a paid position, with some authority and responsibility, then it's a good idea.

There should be paid comps.  If the Lab could do that, even a small amount --- it could the Mentor program a good thing this time around.

Adding --- I was showing this thread to a lawyer friend and she said the Lab would be opening itself to some legal stuff since it's a for-profit company using free labour.  Many other MMOs dropped their volunteer stuff cause of the legal stuff.

[Sid Nagy]

2 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I don't disagree with you but if you're paid then its a job and you can't just log out. There are people who jsut genuinely want to help out sometimes and talk to noobies about sl, but on their terms and on their own schedule.

In this mentor program one has to work 2 hour shifts.*

 

 

* My usage of the word work is no coincidence.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

In this mentor program one has to work 2 hour shifts.*

 

 

* The usage of the word work is no coincidence.

Yeah, makes you wonder why the word "volunteer" wasn't used...

Maybe to scare off "lazy" people?

[Kalia Anatine]

I think as people weigh the pro's and con's of this program, we need to take into account that Linden Labs has an amazing legal team who makes sure that LL is not in violation of labor laws etc. Speculations of legality is a moot point as LL does nothing huge like this without the legal teams go ahead.  If you think otherwise your uniformed of how a corporation works. Also given that it appears that LL is able to ascertain the issues with the last time, they are able to make adjustments to avoid the previous pitfalls. This is why it is called a New Generation of Mentors. It is a totally new mentor program. Also noted the "Pay it Forward" comment. That is about us being helped by some random person in SL when we started. Remember that person? I do! The ideal is as a resident we now can pay forward that kindness showed to us.  Before everyone poo poo's this let's give the team a chance to show us what they are capable of. We cannot compare this to the previous mentor's as it is a new generation with new rules and leadership. This is a good thing for SL.

[Polenth Yue]

1 hour ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I will not be applying, but will continue to do what I am doing now.  If I run across a newbie struggling with a box on their head, looking lonely at a music venue, or stuck under a floor,  I will offer assistance. 

I think a lot of us help on this basis. When we're available and we see someone needs help, we do. Whereas the mentor program as listed is only for people who want to help as a full time job. That cuts out most people in Second Life who are involved in other things, such as doing events, running a business, running a group or anything that might take up time.

This isn't to say it's a bad thing to find the people who want the job, but it's missing out on a lot of people who could help. One possibility is a help group that the Lindens moderate. It'd mean people could help in odd moments when they're doing other things. It'd also mean newbies could be walked through the process of joining and using a group, which opens up a lot of stuff. Though some people will inevitably try to cause issues and get banned from the group, it's at least in the open where you can what's happening.