Hide my avatar from others

[Solar Legion]

Point blank: You only have control over your own end. You do not get to dictate how/when others see your avatar. At all. Beginning and end.

You mute and block, then move on with your (Second) Life. If they can still see you so what? It is irrelevant/immaterial.

No reasoning is required - at all.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Solar Legion

[TatianaD Grigorovich]

5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Point blank: You only have control over your own end. You do not get to dictate how/when others see your avatar. At all. Beginning and end.

You mute and block, then move on with your (Second) Life. If they can still see you so what? It is irrelevant/immaterial.

No reasoning is required - at all.

I find it interesting that there are so many people on here supporting the idea that rude and abusive people should still be allowed to see any avi that they want despite having been rude or abusive to that avi.
In rl there would be court orders preventing proximity so what is the harm in the easy option of stopping their avi seeing another avi
Derender should mean that I am derendered in their life too

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by TatianaD Grigorovich

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, TatianaD Grigorovich said:

is there anything I can do to stop them seeing my avi?

don't log in

[Solar Legion]

This isn't RL.

None of the other spaces even remotely similar to Second Life offers the functionality you seem to think is needed.

Welcome to life. Use the tools you have and move on with it.

If they can still see you ... it does not matter one whit. Period.

[Claireschen Hesten]

3 minutes ago, TatianaD Grigorovich said:

so I hide away because of their rudeness?

Ultimately if block/derender/mute etc. isn't good enough, then yes

[Rowan Amore]

[Kathlen Onyx]

31 minutes ago, TatianaD Grigorovich said:

I find it interesting that there are so many people on here supporting the idea that rude and abusive people should still be allowed to see any avi that they want despite having been rude or abusive to that avi.
In rl there would be court orders preventing proximity so what is the harm in the easy option of stopping their avi seeing another avi
Derender should mean that I am derendered in their life too

 

I would imagine saying "hi" to you might mean someone is being rude and abusive. But what you are wanting can't be done so continuing to argue about how you should have the right to do so is a mute point.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[LittleMe Jewell]

 

 

(thanks Rowan)

[PermaRuthed]

10 hours ago, TatianaD Grigorovich said:

If I mute & derender (as I do sometimes) idiots on sl I cannot see or hear them but I do not wish them to see me or be part of my sl, is there anything I can do to stop them seeing my avi?

Modern problems require modern solutions.

This is a very very easy fix. Buy a private estate, turn off access to everyone, and never leave your island. They can't see you and you can't see them. No need to maintain long block & derender lists.  Easy peasy.

Edited December 4, 2022 by PermaRuthed

[pizza7]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

don't log in

best advice, if you cannot handle all aspects of sl, and the op has a problem with one.. 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, TatianaD Grigorovich said:

I find it interesting that there are so many people on here supporting the idea that rude and abusive people should still be allowed to see any avi that they want despite having been rude or abusive to that avi.
In rl there would be court orders preventing proximity so what is the harm in the easy option of stopping their avi seeing another avi
Derender should mean that I am derendered in their life too

 

I think it is more people supporting not being able to influence another users account than it is supporting someone being rude.. There really is no reason for it when you've already cut them off from your world.. It would be overreaching..

If they are breaking the rules, then you can AR them and  it will go to the next level.. But even in RL, nobody is handing out restraining orders for someone being rude..

It's pretty much an out of site out of mind thing and only allowing us to control our world and our experience and nobody else's.

 

 

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

It is absolutely the case that permitting people to appear as invisible to others of their choice would be a very bad idea. It would immediately become a tool for griefers, harassers, and stalkers. It would create far worse problems than it might solve.

I do wish, however, people would express a bit more sympathy to those who find merely blocking others inadequate.

There are legitimate reasons why one might not want to be seen by someone. After all, blocking someone does not prevent them from insulting, harassing, or undermining you -- or even engaging in worse things, such as pushing, using suggestive dress (or undress) around you, etc. Blocking means you don't witness these things, and the social damage that they can potentially cause: it doesn't prevent them from happening.

And suggestions like "don't log in" or "buy your own private estate" aren't merely unhelpful: they are frankly a form of victim blaming. How would we respond to someone telling the victim of homophobic remarks in RL to just plug their ears, or go elsewhere?

If SL had a decent abuse reporting system, none of this might matter much, but it doesn't, and expecting those who are the targets of abuse to either shrug off the abuse, or run away from it, is just . . . crappy, frankly.

Again, I don't have a solution for this. But can we please try to show a bit more empathy for those who are tired of being targeted for in-world abuse?

[Katherine Heartsong]

This topic also ties very much into the article I was reading just the other day about stress and worry, and how they relate to two things in your life: those you can control, and those you can't. I was focused on the business aspects of the circle of control, but this applies here.

To use mental and emotional energy, and cause yourself stress and worry about the myriad of things you can't control is doing no one but yourself harm. You should be focused on the things you can control, and not worry about the things you can't. What other people say and do is not in your control and it's better to focus just on what you can control. Blocking them.

I do have empathy for your situation and see where this might be desired ... having men know I'm at a dance place where they have dissed me for being male IRL in the past is an uncomfortable example ... but it would cause more harm than good so I shrug my (pretty freckled) shoulders and just get on with it.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Katherine Heartsong

[Ceka Cianci]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It is absolutely the case that permitting people to appear as invisible to others of their choice would be a very bad idea. It would immediately become a tool for griefers, harassers, and stalkers. It would create far worse problems than it might solve.

I do wish, however, people would express a bit more sympathy to those who find merely blocking others inadequate.

There are legitimate reasons why one might not want to be seen by someone. After all, blocking someone does not prevent them from insulting, harassing, or undermining you -- or even engaging in worse things, such as pushing, using suggestive dress (or undress) around you, etc. Blocking means you don't witness these things, and the social damage that they can potentially cause: it doesn't prevent them from happening.

And suggestions like "don't log in" or "buy your own private estate" aren't merely unhelpful: they are frankly a form of victim blaming. How would we respond to someone telling the victim of homophobic remarks in RL to just plug their ears, or go elsewhere?

If SL had a decent abuse reporting system, none of this might matter much, but it doesn't, and expecting those who are the targets of abuse to either shrug off the abuse, or run away from it, is just . . . crappy, frankly.

Again, I don't have a solution for this. But can we please try to show a bit more empathy for those who are tired of being targeted for in-world abuse?

I don't think I was being rude..

I thought I did pretty good for getting only half the story.. hehehehe

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Ceka Cianci said:

I don't think I was being rude..

I thought I did pretty good for getting only half the story.. hehehehe

I wasn't at all referencing you, Ceka.

And I don't think people are being "rude" or even deliberately unkind. They are being a little unthinking, and not working to imagine the kinds of issues that some people may have to deal with, nor the disadvantages some might have in responding to these kinds of behaviour.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I wasn't at all referencing you, Ceka.

And I don't think people are being "rude" or even deliberately unkind. They are being a little unthinking, and not working to imagine the kinds of issues that some people may have to deal with, nor the disadvantages some might have in responding to these kinds of behaviour.

And how exactly is hiding your avatar from someone else fixing anything?  That person can still stand there right next to you if their friends are there telling them where you are.  They can hurl insults at you even if they don't see you.  

Normally, I agree with you but in this case, no. 

[Sid Nagy]

2 hours ago, TatianaD Grigorovich said:

I find it interesting that there are so many people on here supporting the idea that rude and abusive people should still be allowed to see any avi that they want despite having been rude or abusive to that avi.

 

It is all explained to you already: Your desired feature would be an enormous griefers tool. So implementation of such feature will never happen.
So live with it or find other places to hang out.

[Caeruleiae]

11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I wasn't at all referencing you, Ceka.

And I don't think people are being "rude" or even deliberately unkind. They are being a little unthinking, and not working to imagine the kinds of issues that some people may have to deal with, nor the disadvantages some might have in responding to these kinds of behaviour.

I don't think any of the responses has been unthinking. I am not sure the circumstances leading to someone wanting this are actually relevant at all here. So they don't need to be considered. I think the OP is ignoring the fact that once they block, mute and derender, those people can no longer interact with them. Them being able to see them is an absolutely useless thing, because they can't actually do anything about it. In fact, the OP compared it to rl circumstances such as orders or protection, which still do not prohibit a person "seeing" another person, but simply limits the distance from where it can be done and  prohibits direct interaction, but not other types. Even in rl, people can't always completely prohibit others from seeing them without removing themselves from places where it's possible. 

In that way sl is just like rl, it's not possible to completely prohibit it without also limiting where one can go themselves. I think regardless of the reason why it's desired, its an unreasonable request to have something like this that is just as impossible in rl. I also don't think OP thought it through very well as they seem to think this is an easy thing to implement, and it wouldn't be.  I can empathize with OP about people who are jerks, ran into a few myself that are on my block list too. At least two of them were really bad interactions. My satisfaction comes from blocking and derendering them because now they are no longer part of my sl, and I'm no longer part of theirs except in sight alone. They can see me, but can't do anything about it. That's worse than a chocolate bar being dangled in front of someone for the rest of their lives that they can never eat.  That's pretty good punishment for people like that, they can look but nothing else. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Caeruleiae

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

And how exactly is hiding your avatar from someone else fixing anything?  That person can still stand there right next to you if their friends are there telling them where you are.  They can hurl insults at you even if they don't see you.  

Normally, I agree with you but in this case, no. 

Well, I don't think hiding your avatar does fix things, which is one reason I'm not advocating it, in addition to understanding how it can be abused. (Although I can give at least a few instances where hiding oneself would help.)

As I said above, I don't have a solution here -- except perhaps a better abuse reporting system than we have, and more proactive sim owners.

What I'm really commenting on is the sort of "like it or lump it approach" I'm hearing here. Telling someone who may be the target of abuse in SL that they really just shouldn't use SL then is not helpful, empathetic, or kind. Telling someone in such a position that they should fork out for a private estate and avoid public areas is not helpful, empathetic, or kind.

It should be possible to both explain why something can't or shouldn't be done while still commiserating with the circumstances that might make someone want to be able to do that thing. We don't need to scoff at them or provide solutions that essentially disable their enjoyment of SL.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I wasn't at all referencing you, Ceka.

And I don't think people are being "rude" or even deliberately unkind. They are being a little unthinking, and not working to imagine the kinds of issues that some people may have to deal with, nor the disadvantages some might have in responding to these kinds of behaviour.

I think if people realized the power of silence  put on someone wanting to get loud and under your skin.. They would want to have a little window view of the impact it's having on the one wanting to impact them.. hehehehe

Less is really more when someone is looking for a big response.. Something as simple as responding, Ok, To an all caps rant, is enough to make them feel like they've wasted their time.. hehehe

 

 

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Telling someone in such a position that they should fork out for a private estate and avoid public areas is not helpful, empathetic, or kind.

She was given an answer to her question.  There is no other option.  Being rude, AFAIK, is not in and of itself, reportable.  She only said idiots and rude people so...3/4 of SL.could be reported daily.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Being rude, AFAIK, is not in and of itself, reportable.  She only said idiots and rude people so...3/4 of SL.could be reported daily.

Fair point.

[CharlotteStargazer]

3 hours ago, TatianaD Grigorovich said:

Arranging so an avi can be blocked from seeing another avi should be a simple thing for LL, only seen one valid reason why it should not happen so far

You've been given excellent reasons why it's not possible, one of which you accept. How many more do you think you need?  It's not possible, and it's not going to be made possible. Deal with it.

[colleen Criss]

I have a question, if you have them blocked and muted, how do you know what if anything they are doing?

[Rolig Loon]

46 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

As I said above, I don't have a solution here -- except perhaps a better abuse reporting system than we have, and more proactive sim owners.

The Abuse Report system is adequate for what it is designed to do, @Scylla Rhiadra.  It is meant as a way to report suspected violations of the TOS.  It is not intended as a way to turn in people who are being rude, insensitive, or boorish.  Unless someone crosses the line and harasses you -- a fuzzy line, to be sure -- your AR is treated, quite correctly, as a dispute between residents.  The Governance team will tell you what our mothers told us ages ago, "If you have a problem, talk it out. Don't come whining to me."  With that backdrop, it is indeed proper to suggest that if someone is rude to you, you shouldn't expect LL to swoop in and make it better.  That's your job, or you can simply find a better class of people to hang out with.