Someone recently said that people glorify the past too much.

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Here's some food for thought.

The life expentancy in Central Africa today is 51.1 years for males and 55.5 years for females. Those figures are the lowest in the world and of course horrible compared to well developed countries which are all in or at least close to the 80s.

However, life expectancies in Europe in medieval times were somewhere in the 30-35 years range. Even as late as the 19th Century the numbers in developed countries were in the same range as Central Africa today.

I'm always a bit confused by term "life expectancy".  How is it calculated?   I mean, from what I've read, there was a very high infant mortality rate in Western Europe during the Middle Ages (a somewhat vague term, covering several centuries), and a very high risk of women dying while giving birth, but other than that, unless there was an outbreak of plague, most people seemed to survive until their 60s.      

 

[Nalates Urriah]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Why in the world would conservatives want to remove Helen Keller?   They don't want heroic women or disabled people represented in History?

Probably the same reason you think they were conservatives just because it happened in Texas.

10 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I'm always a bit confused by term "life expectancy".  How is it calculated?   I mean, from what I've read, there was a very high infant mortality rate in Western Europe during the Middle Ages (a somewhat vague term, covering several centuries), and a very high risk of women dying while giving birth, but other than that, unless there was an outbreak of plague, most people seemed to survive until their 60s.     

Details... finding truth is often a math challenge. Thanks for the post.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Nalates Urriah
added 2nd quote

[Madelaine McMasters]

36 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I'm always a bit confused by term "life expectancy".  How is it calculated?   I mean, from what I've read, there was a very high infant mortality rate in Western Europe during the Middle Ages (a somewhat vague term, covering several centuries), and a very high risk of women dying while giving birth, but other than that, unless there was an outbreak of plague, most people seemed to survive until their 60s.     

https://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html

[Innula Zenovka]

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Why in the world would conservatives want to remove Helen Keller?   They don't want heroic women or disabled people represented in History?

According to Wikipedia, 

Quote

Keller campaigned for those with disabilities, for women's suffrage, labor rights, and world peace. She joined the Socialist Party of America in 1909. She was a supporter of the NAACP and an original member of the American Civil Liberties Union. In 1933, when her book How I Became a Socialist^[2] was burned by Nazi youth, she wrote an open letter to the Student Body of Germany condemning censorship and prejudice.

So her politics may have something to do with it.

[Silent Mistwalker]

14 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

According to Wikipedia, 

So her politics may have something to do with it.

Her politics had/has everything to do with it.

[Mollymews]

there are some things from the past that I think were glorious and still worth celebrating today

yesterday I watched the movie Suffragettes. Is a dramatisation of the campaign to get women the vote in Britain. That was a glorious win.  What I didn't know til I watched the movie was that the movement also secured parental rights for mothers. Up til then only the fathers had legal guardianship of the children.  That was a glorious win as well

the fall of the Berlin Wall, that was glorious

Nelson Mandela wearing a Springboks jersey at the Rugby World Cup final in 1995. That was a glorious moment for South Africa, given what it took for Mr Mandela to reach that moment

another glorious past event was the introduction of the Korean alphabet during the Segong period about 1445.  It was the beginning of the journey toward literacy for the ordinary people. I learned about that thru watching a tv dramatisation about it. I was, still am, really proud of the young people that Segong got to make that happen

securing legal rights for same sex couples.  It was glorious watching/reading as this legal change came in lots of countries

there are lots of other glorious moments in all of our past histories worth remembering and celebrating. For sure there is also lots of horrible things that happened in the past, and we should never forget these either.  Just that our ancestors have done some good things and we can take some comfort, some pride, and honour them as well, for the good things that our ancestors accomplished

am using the basic definition of glory: high renown or honour won by notable achievements.  And in honouring the worthy accomplishments of those who came before us, we can find some inspiration to continue on in helping to secure further notable achievements for all of us 

[Lindal Kidd]

14 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Well, without getting to controversial, here's some history of the sovereign nation of Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine

Good grief, what a turbulent history that part of the world has had. Somebody was always invading somebody else, borders always changing. How did anyone ever manage to get anything done?

[Marigold Devin]

 

 

The past is a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Wishing wars would stop. No one wins in the end.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Marigold Devin

[Teagan Tobias]

1 hour ago, Marigold Devin said:

 

 

The past is a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Wishing wars would stop. No one wins in the end.

 

I beg to differ with you, the Corporations win, they make Billion$ on wars, and none of them die, kind of a win win for them.

But I too wish wars would end.

[cunomar]

Hollywood will always glorify war because it appeals in the good conquers evil sense .

Children are and always have been the future but modern schooling is flawed in that it teaches "I have a right" . 

Compassion is what we should be teaching and it starts by making Schindler's List compulsory viewing in all schools .

Slavery and war go hand in hand right back to ancient Egypt , every race creed and colour has been subject to it . Homosexuality has been around just as long . Borders are a human invention because inside of them is home hence inter village rivalry .

Times are changing but people aren't evolving beyond the effects of what we eat . All we gotta do is accept this is the world we live in and want for it to be a better place for all .

[Maitimo]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:55 PM, ChinRey said:

Here's some food for thought.

The life expentancy in Central Africa today is 51.1 years for males and 55.5 years for females. Those figures are the lowest in the world and of course horrible compared to well developed countries which are all in or at least close to the 80s.

However, life expectancies in Europe in medieval times were somewhere in the 30-35 years range. Even as late as the 19th Century the numbers in developed countries were in the same range as Central Africa today.

This doesn't mean that most people only live into their fifties, or their thirties.  The figure is brought down by much higher infant mortality than we're used to. A family in medieval Europe might have a dozen children and be lucky if three of them reached adulthood.  Generally speaking, if a child was still alive by the age of 16, they'd probably live almost as long as you and me. Even the Bible quotes the span of a human lifetime as "three-score years and ten" (70 years - not much behind where we are now).

Edited March 4, 2022 by Maitimo

[Odaks]

 

@Maitimo

Fourscore and ten = 90. I think you meant threescore and ten. I take your point though.

 

(Psalm 90)

Edited March 4, 2022 by Odaks
More info

[Maitimo]

18 minutes ago, Odaks said:

 

@Maitimo

Fourscore and ten = 90. I think you meant threescore and ten. I take your point though.

 

(Psalm 90)

You're right. Maths was never my strong subject.

[Silent Mistwalker]

Lincoln's Gettysburg Address begins with the words, “Four score and seven years ago".

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

People glorify the past because glorifying the future is a bit harder to do. And glorifying the present just makes you look a bit presumptuous, arrogant and weird.

Edited March 4, 2022 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Marigold Devin]

11 hours ago, cunomar said:

Hollywood will always glorify war because it appeals in the good conquers evil sense .

Children are and always have been the future but modern schooling is flawed in that it teaches "I have a right" . 

Compassion is what we should be teaching and it starts by making Schindler's List compulsory viewing in all schools .

Slavery and war go hand in hand right back to ancient Egypt , every race creed and colour has been subject to it . Homosexuality has been around just as long . Borders are a human invention because inside of them is home hence inter village rivalry .

Times are changing but people aren't evolving beyond the effects of what we eat . All we gotta do is accept this is the world we live in and want for it to be a better place for all .

... and A Matter of Life and Death. 

 

[colleen Criss]

The past equals our histories. If we do not try to recall, we don't learn from the past and repeat the same mistakes. We certainly can't raise solid children w/o them knowing that. Living in the past is not history it's longing for something we lost.

[Rat Luv]

 

14 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

... and A Matter of Life and Death. 

Will check that out...

I think the most scary film I've EVER seen is 'Come and See', a Russian film about WW2...it's on YT but is really disturbing, I actually felt awful for hours after I watched it a few years ago, and didn't sleep well - just a warning! Made 'Requiem For A Dream' seem upbeat 😕

 

 

[sirhc DeSantis]

2 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

 

Will check that out...

I think the most scary film I've EVER seen is 'Come and See', a Russian film about WW2...it's on YT but is really disturbing, I actually felt awful for hours after I watched it a few years ago, and didn't sleep well - just a warning! Made 'Requiem For A Dream' seem upbeat 😕

 

 

do not watch alone.

[Marigold Devin]

12 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

 

Will check that out...

I think the most scary film I've EVER seen is 'Come and See', a Russian film about WW2...it's on YT but is really disturbing, I actually felt awful for hours after I watched it a few years ago, and didn't sleep well - just a warning! Made 'Requiem For A Dream' seem upbeat 😕

 

 

You may (will) find A Matter of Life and Death quite corny and old-fashioned, but it's so very moral and shows all the different nationalities who were involved with, and lost their lives in, the Second World War. It is primarily a love story, the power of love conquering all. But in it's own way it has stood the test of time. 

Having just watched the trailer for the film you mention, I can see why it would be very unsettling. It's certainly not sugar-coating war.

25 minutes ago, colleen Criss said:

The past equals our histories. If we do not try to recall, we don't learn from the past and repeat the same mistakes. We certainly can't raise solid children w/o them knowing that. Living in the past is not history it's longing for something we lost.

I wish people were learning from past mistakes. That's all I've got to say.

_____

Except editing to add I currently find myself watching a programme on UK TV (Channel 5) about 1985 and they just showed the first "portable" phone, costing around £3000. I can't say 1985 will ever be glorified, rather my household are laughing at some of it and feeling despair that still lessons have not been learned regarding starving people in third world countries.  And the road to hell is paved with good intentions, as Sir Bob Geldof may certainly have found. Bless his grubby-looking cotton socks.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Marigold Devin

[Marigold Devin]

25 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

 

Will check that out...

I think the most scary film I've EVER seen is 'Come and See', a Russian film about WW2...it's on YT but is really disturbing, I actually felt awful for hours after I watched it a few years ago, and didn't sleep well - just a warning! Made 'Requiem For A Dream' seem upbeat 😕

 

 

Please don't ever watch The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas. That was one of the most unsettling and upsetting films I ever saw and certainly didn't glorify the past (referring to the OP). It did show to some degree how karma worked, although why people have to suffer before karma gets the bad guys I just do not know. I can only surmise that karma kicks in for the wrongdoings we did in our previous lives. Maybe. 

 

[Rat Luv]

@Marigold Devin Have you ever seen Threads, an '80s film about a nuclear attack on Sheffield? I haven't, but have been warned it's really grim 😕 I get freaked out enough by skydiving videos, lol.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Rat Luv

[Marigold Devin]

49 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

@Marigold Devin Have you ever seen Threads, an '80s film about a nuclear attack on Sheffield? I haven't, but have been warned it's really grim 😕 I get freaked out enough by skydiving videos, lol.

Yes I saw Threads. It still disturbs me, but back in that time we lived with the threat of nuclear war hanging over us and it seemed extremely believable and likely. There was this ridiculous public information leaflet that was available at the time, created by our useless government of that time (nothing changed there) on how to build your own nuclear fallout shelter by taking all the doors off your house...

... goes to look on the internet to ensure I haven't got a fake memory.

Edited to add:

Yup, here is an archived pdf including said leaflet. 

https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/110193.pdf?v=c77f06e782d33a2ec8bf00d7c597ea10

Edited March 5, 2022 by Marigold Devin
I don't have fake memories but there is a lot of dust within my brain after all these years

[Sid Nagy]

Just watch a recent news show.
That is more than scary enough.

[Marigold Devin]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

Just watch a recent news show.
That is more than scary enough.

And when - if - we live to see these current news stories become the past, I don't think they will be glorified either (referring to the title of this thread).