Someone recently said that people glorify the past too much.

[Innula Zenovka]

My abiding memory of Threads is that one of the characters seemed to possess a completely indestructible supermarket plastic carrier bag, which survived the nuclear attack, as did she, and which she was still using several years later to carry around those few of her possessions that also survived. 

[Luna Bliss]

On 3/3/2022 at 1:49 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

On 3/3/2022 at 10:03 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Why in the world would conservatives want to remove Helen Keller?   They don't want heroic women or disabled people represented in History?

Probably the same reason you think they were conservatives just because it happened in Texas.

Not sure I understand what you're implying. It is indeed conservative activists attempting to revise History or glorify a past that either did not exist or a past that excluded others outside their chosen narrative:
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/19/conservative-activists-texas-have-shaped-history-all-american-children-learn/
  Maddy's link: https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/january-2019/texas-revises-history-education-again-how-a-good-faith-process-became-political

And historically, women and the disabled were written out of History for the most part:
https://blog.english-heritage.org.uk/women-written-history-interview-bettany-hughes/ 
https://www.disabilitymuseum.org/dhm/edu/essay.html?id=70

Now were women and the disabled written out of History by conservatives? That would be an interesting discussion. I think I would say that for eons our notion of reality or what we esteemed and decided was worth being written about mostly had to do with winning wars, conquering others, the strong and victorious, or who managed to dominate others economically or otherwise.  Women, the disabled, or any of the other marginalized groups did not fit in with what we esteemed. As we evolved some the progressives wanted these people to be included in what we esteem, and others (conservatives) want to hang on to the old, cherished ways where America was "great".

Edited March 5, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

On 3/3/2022 at 2:17 PM, Innula Zenovka said:

On 3/3/2022 at 10:03 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Why in the world would conservatives want to remove Helen Keller?   They don't want heroic women or disabled people represented in History?

According to Wikipedia, 

Quote

Keller campaigned for those with disabilities, for women's suffrage, labor rights, and world peace. She joined the Socialist Party of America in 1909. She was a supporter of the NAACP and an original member of the American Civil Liberties Union. In 1933, when her book How I Became a Socialist^[2] was burned by Nazi youth, she wrote an open letter to the Student Body of Germany condemning censorship and prejudice.

Expand  

So her politics may have something to do with it.

Very interesting...I did not remember that she was such an esteemed progressive activist   

[Luna Bliss]

13 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

Have you ever seen Threads, an '80s film about a nuclear attack on Sheffield? I haven't, but have been warned it's really grim 😕 I get freaked out enough by skydiving videos, lol.

Looks like I can view that if I subscribe to AMC+.  I just might.

[Lindal Kidd]

12 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

There was this ridiculous public information leaflet that was available at the time

That is actually full of pretty good advice.

Since 1945, we have always lived with the possibility of nuclear war. Statistically speaking, the existence of nuclear weapons means that sooner or later, there WILL be a nuclear war. We won't be sane, clean, well-dressed people like that booklet shows. Those of us who survive will be burned, dirty, exhausted, sick, hungry, and frightened.

I'm scared. Thanks to one man, we are now closer to this than we have been for 30 years, and because we haven't given it much thought for those years, we're less prepared for it.

But there will be survivors, and those who follow the advice in that pamphlet, and others like it, will have a better chance to be among them.

[StarlanderGoods]

9 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Statistically speaking, the existence of nuclear weapons means that sooner or later, there WILL be a nuclear war. We won't be sane, clean, well-dressed people like that booklet shows.

And because of the actions of the nuclear powers (both Russia and the US) bullying the smaller nations that abandoned their nuclear weapons programs (Iran , Ukraine), we will most likely see more and more nations arming themselves, since recent history has taught us that if you dont have nuclear weapons, you are at the mercy of those who do, and the powerful will walk back any treaties or deals with no consecuense (again, happened both to Iran and Ukraine).  I remember a time when I belived the news about a push towards disarmament, it was probably a lie, but that past felt more hopeful than the present or the future.

[Luna Bliss]

It's not good to live in a country that has so many nuclear missals aimed at it. If you live in a town with an air force base (as I do), even worse. Mexico is looking more and more appealing.

[Krystina Ferraris]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's not good to live in a country that has so many nuclear missals aimed at it. If you live in a town with an air force base (as I do), even worse. Mexico is looking more and more appealing.

Yep and can you imagine being an European nation, part of NATO, that does not even have nuclear power stations on its soil… but has however plenty of US military bases which keep nuclear warheads inside their military compounds.

That turns said non-nuclear nation into a prime target for anyone pissed off by NATO or the US… my poor dad is seriously worried and said has not been so since the 80s. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

31 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

That is actually full of pretty good advice.

Since 1945, we have always lived with the possibility of nuclear war. Statistically speaking, the existence of nuclear weapons means that sooner or later, there WILL be a nuclear war. We won't be sane, clean, well-dressed people like that booklet shows. Those of us who survive will be burned, dirty, exhausted, sick, hungry, and frightened.

I'm scared. Thanks to one man, we are now closer to this than we have been for 30 years, and because we haven't given it much thought for those years, we're less prepared for it.

But there will be survivors, and those who follow the advice in that pamphlet, and others like it, will have a better chance to be among them.

Cuban Missile Crisis. Just outside the city limits of the town I grew up in was a major air force base. I was a sitting duck from the time I was 3 years old. And yes, I do remember those 17 days very vividly. I have never been so devastatingly scared. It was all over the news and my parents could not keep from us kids. What would you do if your 3-year-old came to you with tears running down her face asking you if you were all going to die?

[Luna Bliss]

15 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's not good to live in a country that has so many nuclear missals aimed at it. If you live in a town with an air force base (as I do), even worse. Mexico is looking more and more appealing.

Yep and can you imagine being an European nation, part of NATO, that does not even have nuclear power stations on its soil… but has however plenty of US military bases which keep nuclear warheads inside their military compounds.

That turns said non-nuclear nation into a prime target for anyone pissed off by NATO or the US… my poor dad is seriously worried and said has not been so since the 80s. 

I wasn't aware Ireland was one of the countries with a US military base      No doubt you are all frightened.

[Lindal Kidd]

30 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

recent history has taught us that if you dont have nuclear weapons, you are at the mercy of those who do

Wrong lesson. EVERYONE is at the mercy of those who have nuclear weapons, whether you have them yourself or not. In fact, having them actually makes it more likely that someone will try and nuke you first.

The lesson we ought to learn is: NO NUKES. Anywhere.

[StarlanderGoods]

Just now, Lindal Kidd said:

Wrong lesson. EVERYONE is at the mercy of those who have nuclear weapons, whether you have them yourself or not. In fact, having them actually makes it more likely that someone will try and nuke you first.

The lesson we ought to learn is: NO NUKES. Anywhere.

Sure, ideally, no nukes anywhere, but as long as someone has them, they get to pick on everyone who doesnt.

And having nukes doesnt make you a target, we are living under the Mutually Assured Destruction doctrine, no one can mess with nuclear powers, or else we all die. That is the only reason why NATO cant intevene directly in Ukraine.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

And having nukes doesnt make you a target,

The hell it doesn't. See my post about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[Madelaine McMasters]

6 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Wrong lesson. EVERYONE is at the mercy of those who have nuclear weapons, whether you have them yourself or not. In fact, having them actually makes it more likely that someone will try and nuke you first.

The lesson we ought to learn is: NO NUKES. Anywhere.

I don't think that genie's going back in the bottle...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

Edited March 5, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters

[StarlanderGoods]

6 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The hell it doesn't. See my post about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Cuba never "got" nucler weapons, but please, provide a list of nations with nuclear weapons that have been invaded.

Hell, no one can even touch North Korea, and who know IF they really have nukes.

Edited March 5, 2022 by StarlanderGoods
edit

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

Cuba never "got" nucler weapons, but please, provide a list of nations with nuclear weapons that have been invaded.

Hell, no one can even touch North Korea, and who know IF they really have nukes.

Quote

American U-2 spy plane piloted by Major Richard Heyser making a high-altitude pass over Cuba on October 14, 1962, photographed a Soviet SS-4 medium-range ballistic missile being assembled for installation.

https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/cuban-missile-crisis

[Krystina Ferraris]

25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I wasn't aware Ireland was one of the countries with a US military base      No doubt you are all frightened.

Indeed Ireland is neutral and not NATO but my dad lives in northeast Italy 😕 Italy is part of NATO but has a non-nuclear policy for its territory… that however does not apply to US military bases as they are officially US soil ☹️

[StarlanderGoods]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/cuban-missile-crisis

I will drop this tangent because I dont want to drag the thread down further, Cuba doesnt have any nuclear or chemical weapons.

They started construction on a silo, and the cuban missile crisis happened, and even then, the US hasnt invaded Cuba, so IF they had nukes, it would still support my point that nuclear armed nations are not targets for invasion.

Edited March 5, 2022 by StarlanderGoods
typos

[Rat Luv]

57 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

Yep and can you imagine being an European nation, part of NATO, that does not even have nuclear power stations on its soil… but has however plenty of US military bases which keep nuclear warheads inside their military compounds.

I think any major city is also at risk 😕

Part of me's also wondering if we're going to soon get a repeat of all the hoarding and panic buying during the first months of Covid.

[Krystina Ferraris]

Just now, Rat Luv said:

I think any major city is also at risk 😕

Part of me's also wondering if we're going to soon get a repeat of all the hoarding and panic buying during the first months of Covid.

I was thinking the same, we better stock up on loo rolls and flour asap 🙄

[Silent Mistwalker]

26 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

I will drop this tangent because I dont want to drag the thread down further, Cuba doesnt have any nuclear or chemical weapons.

They started construction on a silo, and the cuban missile crisis happened, and even then, the US hasnt invaded Cuba, so IF they had nukes, it would still support my point that nuclear armed nations are not targets for invasion.

Cuba had nukes in 1962 sent to them by Russia. That is a fact. I lived it and I still live with that fear 60 years later.

 

[Bree Giffen]

I was surprised to learn how powerful Cuba was during the cold war. Cuba was sending tanks and troops into the Middle-East and Africa. They were definitely not a peaceful little island sitting next to Florida.

[Marigold Devin]

4 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

My abiding memory of Threads is that one of the characters seemed to possess a completely indestructible supermarket plastic carrier bag, which survived the nuclear attack, as did she, and which she was still using several years later to carry around those few of her possessions that also survived. 

If only having a carrier bag was as good as carrying an umbrella (in that it rarely rains when you are prepared!).

[Marigold Devin]

1 hour ago, Rat Luv said:

I think any major city is also at risk 😕

Part of me's also wondering if we're going to soon get a repeat of all the hoarding and panic buying during the first months of Covid.

I couldn't get tissues anywhere four weeks ago because people had started to hoard them again with the shortage of lorry drivers (or something such), but shelves were full again yesterday.

[Marigold Devin]

1 hour ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

I was thinking the same, we better stock up on loo rolls and flour asap 🙄

I remember February 2020, I was shopping in my local Tesco when I was knocked almost off my feet by a young woman. When I turned to look at her, she was scouring the empty shelves with total panic on her face needing baby wipes. Odd how people have become reliant on such things when my mother - all mothers of that generation - managed with soap and water and a bit of cotton wool or torn up rags.