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1 hour ago, Pixels Sideways said:

 

Anyone who depends on SL to "make a living" is foolish at best.

LL created a platform and a currency for people to play with.  LL is not obligated to be the sole foundation for anyone who chooses to engage in commerce in SL in order to "make a living."

Making money in SL is encouraged because it feeds the LL beast that keeps the game engine running and generates profits for LL.  There is a cyclic dependency in that but LL holds all the cards and those who engage in commerce in SL to make money do not.

LL could fold up shop tomorrow and nothing would happen to them as they are undoubtedly indemnified six ways from Sunday legally. And for those who have invested significantly and built a business on a house of cards, they will be left with nothing and no legal recourse.  It's in the TOS which no one reads because why be bothered with that knowledge.

Creating a dependence on income derived in SL is a huge gamble with significant risks because you have zero control over the decisions the company you are floating your business on makes.

 

Have I said that it's smart? I have a real job. But I do not lack the empathy to feel for people that do make money in SL, it's not only "stupid" or "crazy" people. It's disabled people or people with anxiety or the stay-at-home  Mom that have found a way to feel worthy that way. So saying 7 days enough let's nuke their hard work? You can say that and be happy I would personally just feel bad to think that way.

and let's not forget that those "crazy" people...are part of the reason SL is what it is today. If there wouldn't have been some people in love with SL enough to create, and build SL would be a pretty empty and boring place.

I am not unhappy to see gacha go, but I also do not forget that there are humans on both sides, customers and creators.

I also do not want lucky vendors, conveyer belts and all that jazz but I will probably have to deal with some gacha in disguise 🥸 that is on the edge to what is legal...and it's fine because I do have a choice to use it or not as a customer.

Edited by Gwin LeShelle
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1 hour ago, Pixels Sideways said:

 

Anyone who depends on SL to "make a living" is foolish at best.

LL created a platform and a currency for people to play with.  LL is not obligated to be the sole foundation for anyone who chooses to engage in commerce in SL in order to "make a living."

Making money in SL is encouraged because it feeds the LL beast that keeps the game engine running and generates profits for LL.  There is a cyclic dependency in that but LL holds all the cards and those who engage in commerce in SL to make money do not.

LL could fold up shop tomorrow and nothing would happen to them as they are undoubtedly indemnified six ways from Sunday legally. And for those who have invested significantly and built a business on a house of cards, they will be left with nothing and no legal recourse.  It's in the TOS which no one reads because why be bothered with that knowledge.

Creating a dependence on income derived in SL is a huge gamble with significant risks because you have zero control over the decisions the company you are floating your business on makes.

 

Linden Labs sunsetting SL fills me with a cold dread.  BUT it won't be the first time an online world I enjoyed being a part of folded and even though I have spent probably far more money than I should have - I enjoyed my time here. So that's what I have learned: even if it ends - i will have some good memories and that's probably all we really should try to hold onto.  

 

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9 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There are lessons creators can learn from gachas going forward.

We like collecting junk.

We like trading junk.

We like a low cost to entry.

 

I propose the lucky vendor.

A simple, single product vendor. It contains all the items from a set, and periodically (not dependent on shoppers) switches the item being sold to a different one selected from the list randomly based on the same weighed chance gachas used (Say, every 4 hours). The item remains up for the set period of time before switching out to a new one. Every item is the same price. Shoppers are limited to how many copies of the item they can purchase in any one session.

Because this isn't a game, it's just artificial scarcity, it doesn't fall victim to any of the outlawed gacha mechanics and products could remain transfer enabling the secondary market.

Keeping an eye on vendors, checking back regularly, visiting "lucky events" more than once, pile ons when the rare appears, all the crazy fun stuff that drives engagement.

Way to promote camping. Good luck getting into any sim that has this. 

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18 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

I am not unhappy to see gacha go, but I also do not forget that there are humans on both sides, customers and creators.

and yet

4 hours ago, Darius Vayandar said:

I also wanna point out to people that Gachas are a recent thing, SL economy was perfectly fine and frankly better before and it will be fine after.

To some degree, it's a zero sum game: people have at least a notional budget for buying SL content, whether they do it by gacha, "conveyor", normal vendor, or Marketplace. So getting rid of gacha would benefit the respectable retail paths—if only the "conveyor" kludge hadn't been approved.

But only "to some degree" because there are surely people who spend way (way) beyond budget on chance-driven vending (gacha, and now conveyor). And that makes the tradeoff pretty stark: Do we favor the chance-victimized customers, or the chance-exploiting merchants?

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10 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

and yet

To some degree, it's a zero sum game: people have at least a notional budget for buying SL content, whether they do it by gacha, "conveyor", normal vendor, or Marketplace. So getting rid of gacha would benefit the respectable retail paths—if only the "conveyor" kludge hadn't been approved.

But only "to some degree" because there are surely people who spend way (way) beyond budget on chance-driven vending (gacha, and now conveyor). And that makes the tradeoff pretty stark: Do we favor the chance-victimized customers, or the chance-exploiting merchants?

To make it crystal clear, this person quoted me because I once answered in this thread many sides back that I find it cruel to say "why so much warning time jsut give them 7 days and nuke it!" so I just answered to that. 3 weeks is just a fine warning period!

I am NOT arguing PRO gacha I was just stating that there are less cruel ways to be happy about it go ;)

I for sure know that SL will be fine after that as it was before gachas entered the grid ( I was there before that happened) so I am NOT unhappy about it going, I love purchasing stuff just straight for a vendor ^^

But I also understand that ssome creators feel helpless, not all of them are just panicking because their "cashcow" just got shot! Some are just worried about their hard work going down the drain, of course it is not but its their first feeling right at the moment and I do feel for those!

I never really understood why people need to make it all gacha, I just want to buy all your stuff but not if I have to play for 7 puppies in rainbow colors when I just want a bunch of kittens xD (just for example lol) I think also that in RL ..when people were not able to hide behind their keyboards they would find less harsh words for it!

And this is my last post in this totally overtop thread, and I am not further apologizing to have at least some empathy in those times!

Edited by Gwin LeShelle
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19 minutes ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

I'm neither a gacha seller or a gacha customer, but I'm willing to bet the honest answer is: because they can make (far?) more money that way. I don't know how much more, but I must say this thread has been quite the eye opener...

Why not just call it what it is? They got greedy. And LL is letting them get away with it because LL is greedy, too.

But that is good news for a handful. The rest of us just have to suck it up or take our money elsewhere. I have neither so I'm not sure wth people like me are supposed to do. Die of sheer boredom I guess.

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9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Why not just call it what it is? They got greedy. And LL is letting them get away with it because LL is greedy, too.

But that is good news for a handful. The rest of us just have to suck it up or take our money elsewhere. I have neither so I'm not sure wth people like me are supposed to do. Die of sheer boredom I guess.

Maybe. Possibly. But you never know what somebody's circumstances are. Maybe they needed the money to pay for medical bills, or something. (Then again, of course, maybe not.)

Money's nice. Honestly, if I was them and had found a way to make lots of (relatively speaking) money... I'm not sure I wouldn't do it. Though I hope I'd be smart enough to have a backup plan (and a high interest savings account...not there are any of those left...)

Edited by hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian
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44 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I'd love to see gacha sellers to come up with a honest explanation for why they are clinging to this model with such a death grip.

Unfortunately I also know they can never be honest about it either.

💵💵💵💵💵💲💲🤑💰

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I was in a place that had reduced the gacha pull price to 25 L, and out of boredom I clicked a few times. Lol, I got two single rings in different materials.

All the commons was such rings, and the rare a full set with a HUD to change. The weekend sales has spoiled me rotten. I can buy whole set of rings with a HUD for 60L. Gacha feels stupid for me now, even for 25 L. And these gachas used to have a pull price of 50, 75 L or more. And now, for 75 L I can buy that lingerie set I want in just the color I want, instead of paying and paying and get all the other colors.

Clothes gacha is dead for me, already before it dies in SL. The last gacha I played was for furniture, and all the prices was worth it. It was in the Epiphany, so I traded in doubles for a gift. But when I think about it, I could just have bought the fatpack.

 

 

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It's interesting to me that Patch Linden, in an attempt to ban a gambling system that popped up on LL servers, has now specifically approved a new gambling system to be used on their servers.

There's no way their lawyers signed off on that.

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1 hour ago, Chris Nova said:

Way to promote camping. Good luck getting into any sim that has this. 

All these people standing about together with a common interest .. whatever will they do ..

MAYBE TALK TO EACH OTHER !

It's not camping if you're not AFK.

 

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Just now, TDD123 said:

G.T.F.O., maybe ? :)

 

( It' s fun .. ;) )

I know.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so true. SL has always been a playground for the "well to do", not us po folks. Now, they're just making sure only those with money to burn will be left.

What can ya do? Not a damn thing. Except try to ride it out (LOL) or leave. I've been riding it out for over 17 years. Not sure how much longer I can do that. It's gotten awful lonesome in there.

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5 hours ago, Stella Davros said:

The creators of this machine clearly said that is fitte for stores and not for events

and you think nobody else will jump on this scripting?... for money people sell their soul to the devil... allover history.. also in sl.
Same as coded fraud.... it will get done.
I might be negative but i don't just trust people on their heavenly blue eyes...

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34 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

All these people standing about together with a common interest .. whatever will they do ..

MAYBE TALK TO EACH OTHER !

It's not camping if you're not AFK.

 

Talk to people between 4 hour changes per item? Are you mad? 

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39 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

All these people standing about together with a common interest .. whatever will they do ..

MAYBE TALK TO EACH OTHER !

It's not camping if you're not AFK.

 

I wouldn't want to stand around for 4 hours, awaiting the item I want. I want to shop and go. Your idea seems to play on the idea, that people want to wait a crap tonne of time. Now put it in events, you might as well be waiting for longer to get in. As you have a tonne of people standing around at a machine waiting for their item to pop up. Oh boy another conveyor system idea, people are literally saying they don't like this specific approach. 

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35 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

What can ya do? Not a damn thing. Except try to ride it out (LOL) or leave. I've been riding it out for over 17 years. Not sure how much longer I can do that. It's gotten awful lonesome in there.

does it really have to be that? .. i'm simply going to avoid those vendors and only buy direct items.
I been healed from clothes fatpack addiction since some years... buy one or two variances and you can buy a lot more to make combinations.
And furniture i buy at my fav store or if i really want something gacha... MP.. no bandit , direct price and item.

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2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

does it really have to be that? .. i'm simply going to avoid those vendors and only buy direct items.
I been healed from clothes fatpack addiction since some years... buy one or two variances and you can buy a lot more to make combinations.
And furniture i buy at my fav store or if i really want something gacha... MP.. no bandit , direct price and item.

If this is the way we are going, I am not gonna be buying from these companies at all.Unless they offer a fatpack option. That and with the new rules, Resellers will be a thing of the past. Going forward, all these items will be no transfer. 

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3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

If this is the way we are going, I am not gonna be buying from these companies at all.Unless they offer a fatpack option. That and with the new rules, Resellers will be a thing of the past. Going forward, all these items will be no transfer. 

For the ones that experience this change it will be really a matter of choice what to do in the future... but for newer players... nah i gave hope up for them, we seen the same happen with "that scammy mesh body i won't name here" .. they kept buying while there was no support or whatever for them... and the embracing of their new product... it still dazzles me...

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2 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I'd love to see gacha sellers to come up with a honest explanation for why they are clinging to this model with such a death grip.

Unfortunately I also know they can never be honest about it either.

Probably because they want a cash cow.  I was in a shopping group yesterday and they were talking about the conveyors and gachas and a few of us commented on how the new gacha conveyor is also gambling.   One of the creators go mad and ejected me and a few others from the group accusing us of slandering the new device. So obviously looks like some creators will only put stuff and outfits in that dumb thing instead of a vendor.

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