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New Gacha Policy Discussion


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8 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well I am a Happy Gacha Girl! I went shopping for a bit and thought I would try a few pulls on a nice gacha outfit I saw (see what all the fuss is about) from one of the stores listed here: Serephimsl.  Four pulls @25L each and I had a really nice skirt and 3 different tops that went with it. Another pull on a cute hair and I scored the rare option and received the hair with all the color huds. So for a 125L$, I picked up what would have cost me a minimum of 1500L$ had I been able to buy single items rather than a forced Fat packs for any of them. 

I really don't know what the supposed gamble is. Each item in that gacha outfit was worth quite a bit more that the 25L$ that I spent for each pull. And I can even resell them if I get bored with it. This is so win/win, i really don't see the issue. 

 

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The top considering its quality would likely have cost 300L per colour from other creators so to my mind, I have 12 pulls for free and the odds of not getting something else of value in one of those is pretty slim. Not much of a gamble when looked at it from that way.

Majority of the complaints I have seen in this thread seem to be more about some creators going overboard on the odds of getting a rare rather than about the moral implications of gambling. Maybe there needs to be some regulation rather than stopping that marketing technique altogether. 

Guess why you're only paying $25 per pull, and what you would have paid before.

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9 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Four pulls @25L each and I had a really nice skirt and 3 different tops that went with it. Another pull on a cute hair and I scored the rare option and received the hair with all the color huds. So for a 125L$, I picked up what would have cost me a minimum of 1500L$ had I been able to buy single items rather than a forced Fat packs for any of them. 

I really don't know what the supposed gamble is. Each item in that gacha outfit was worth quite a bit more that the 25L$ that I spent for each pull. And I can even resell them if I get bored with it. This is so win/win, i really don't see the issue. 

Yeah, but you could have gotten 4 of the same tops, all the same colour. At average (old) gacha prices, that would be around betwen 250l$ and 500 L$. For one top. If you're lucky, you're happy with the colour. (If you're not...tough luck, eh?)

Which you might still deem good value, and that's your prerogative. But you had no way to know. How is that not a gamble???

 

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3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Majority of the complaints I have seen in this thread seem to be more about some creators going overboard on the odds of getting a rare rather than about the moral implications of gambling. Maybe there needs to be some regulation rather than stopping that marketing technique altogether. 

Well, I kinda agree with that bit at least to an extent, but I guess it's easier to have a sledgehammer approach. And the regulation that's coming is to stop that way of selling entirely. But wether I agree or not is irrelevant, anyway. The regulatory environment is what it is, and LL have to err on the side of caution, it'd be commercial suicide on their part not to.

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@Linden Lab I am just going to go all the way out onto this limb and say, you wussed out on the conveyor belt vendors!  If the goal is to get rid of random and predatory sales then ban these new kinds of vendors too. Having read all 144 pages of this thread it is clear that the whole reason for conveyor belt style  vendors is to keep finding ways to fleece the addicted and those unable to do math, rather than simply setting up fair priced shops to sell their wares.   In many ways they seem WORSE than what they are replacing.  Seriously ban them too and be done with it!!!

 

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1 hour ago, So Whimsy said:

Nobody in SL has ruined it for those who enjoy gacha's. The laws and legislations forced LL to act, not its users.

Yes. I mean the 1% of kids who are crazy enough to be obsessed with loot-boxes. stealing mums credit card. and then blaming it on others instead of resolving their own problems. Then complaining to the law makers about it.  Loot-boxes only provided visual enhancements. Nothing to boost performance. So they were pointless anyway.  Another negative is it could mean an end of free-to-play games.  The people who make these laws have probably never heard of Second Life. And would probably make an exception if this was brought forward to them. As many creators are specifically selling gachas.

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@Patch Lindeni would like to say that this thread became ridicoulous, it's quiet offensive to read that all the people who like to play gacha or somenthing similar are classified as "addicted" "junkies" or "unable to do math" ,  here people judge even you as CEO, and i think this is not the purpose of this thread , for the conveyor belt i think that is a good idea cause like this the customers will know in advance what item they will buy and will have the ability to choose if buy it or not, it would be great if into the vendor could be implemented the option to buy the entire set for the price that the creator considers "fair" ( considering the fact that the items are resalable and the number of items of the set too, example DRD was doing that if u don t wanna play with the machine you could buy the entire set for 7000L) , this is only my advice,  of course LL will take the decision, for the rest i hope that this thread have to be closed soon and keep only the update open, people are losing the control of the words.....regards

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we seriously need an eyeroll emoticon for some of these replies .. because people who are "why u ruin it for us ... we adulting" don't understand the reasoning behind the ban and think LL are doing it because their mean and want to spoil their fun

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21 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

for the conveyor belt i think that is a good idea cause like this the customers will know in advance what item they will buy and will have the ability to choose if buy it or not, 

Yeah they might "SEE" whats available to buy ... but they have zero control over what appears on that conveyor belt ... and if it only shows ten items and all ten need to be purchased before it randomises another ten ... what's to stop creators from hiding the rare or the optical illusion that the rare will be number 11.... and if you only want item number 9 on the current selection.. if someone has to purchase 1 through 8 on the belt before you can get number 9... then yeah its crooked 

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3 hours ago, So Whimsy said:

And all those 12 pulls are gambling since you are paying for something you don't know.

 

5 hours ago, So Whimsy said:

You don't know beforehand if you get your money's worth. You could have spent that 125L and only gotten one shirt and the rest of the pulls being doubles of it. It was a gamble you took.

But I did know it was going to be something that is in that Gacha pack. At 25-50L per pull, it is worth the risk and if I get a duplicate then the Transfer permission allows me to resell it or give it to an alt or a friend. That is unlike the other regular outfit I mentioned earlier where the misrepresentation of the No Mod/Transfer  accessory made it totally worthless to me with no ability to sell or even give it away. In terms of value for my money, the gachas is worth a lot more in having those options even if they are duplicates. And on top of that the fact, the duplicates only cost me 25L vs the 400L I paid for the useless accessory.

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3 hours ago, So Whimsy said:

Nobody in SL has ruined it for those who enjoy gacha's. The laws and legislations forced LL to act, not its users.

And yet as Provky and a few others have pointed out, most of the legal fuss has been about lootboxes and not gachas, especially in the way they are done in S/L. At this point there is no specific laws against Gachas. What i find interesting though is that so many of the anti-gachas in this thread talk about the need to follow LL's guidance on this new policy and yet when an alternative method is suggested that LL considers to be valid, then the anti gachas turn on LL itself for even considering such a thing. So it really is not about what LL or the Law states about Gachas but some other motivation which I am starting to wonder if it is some Creators looking to quash a competing marketing strategy. The end result will just be the consumer having less choice.

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And yet as Provky and a few others have pointed out, most of the legal fuss has been about lootboxes and not gachas, especially in the way they are done in S/L. At this point there is no specific laws against Gachas. What i find interesting though is that so many of the anti-gachas in this thread talk about the need to follow LL's guidance on this new policy and yet when an alternative method is suggested that LL considers to be valid, then the anti gachas turn on LL itself for even considering such a thing. So it really is not about what LL or the Law states about Gachas but some other motivation which I am starting to wonder if it is some Creators looking to quash a competing marketing strategy. The end result will just be the consumer having less choice.

Gachas and lootboxes function the same way. You put money in and get an item at random.

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53 minutes ago, Aria Fae said:

Yeah they might "SEE" whats available to buy ... but they have zero control over what appears on that conveyor belt ... and if it only shows ten items and all ten need to be purchased before it randomises another ten ... what's to stop creators from hiding the rare or the optical illusion that the rare will be number 11.... and if you only want item number 9 on the current selection.. if someone has to purchase 1 through 8 on the belt before you can get number 9... then yeah 

U will have 3 options :

- buy like the belt show 

- buy the entire set 

- buy one specific item later on MP

the problem of gacha was that was entirely random....but like this u have a choice...actually 3 choices it s just another way to do market,  nobody force nobody so as u see u have all the possibility to gain what u want

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3 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

Gachas and lootboxes function the same way. You put money in and get an item at random.

From one site explaining the difference I get this:

"The difference between Gacha game and Loot box is that the gacha game is actually a collection of cards, toys, characters for earning points in a game in the real world, and on the other hand, a loot box is a specific item available in games which has surprises and other surprise elements when a person reaches a certain level in a game."

https://askanydifference.com/difference-between-gacha-game-and-loot-box/

Gacha's in S/L are not a random surprise but one of a specific set of items listed on the advert. Lootboxes from the sounds of it could be anything from a chair to a house to teddy bear. That is not how Gachas are done in S/L.

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Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

From one site explaining the difference I get this:

"The difference between Gacha game and Loot box is that the gacha game is actually a collection of cards, toys, characters for earning points in a game in the real world, and on the other hand, a loot box is a specific item available in games which has surprises and other surprise elements when a person reaches a certain level in a game."

https://askanydifference.com/difference-between-gacha-game-and-loot-box/

Gacha's in S/L are not a random surprise but one of a specific set of items listed on the advert. Lootboxes from the sounds of it could be anything from a chair to a house to teddy bear. That is not how Gachas are done in S/L.

In the games I played that have lootboxes they worked the same way as gacha's. You saw a preview of what you can get and you paid money into it to get one of those items.

I am done now explaining it though as has been done time and time again and I am not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse about it or just trolling at this point.

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1 minute ago, So Whimsy said:

In the games I played that have lootboxes they worked the same way as gacha's. You saw a preview of what you can get and you paid money into it to get one of those items.

I am done now explaining it though as has been done time and time again and I am not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse about it or just trolling at this point.

I think you just fail to understand that other people have a different view than you do.

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1 minute ago, So Whimsy said:

I am done now explaining it though as has been done time and time again and I am not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse about it or just trolling at this point.

without putting it in a certain box, it's the same as it was in the covid threads

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1 minute ago, Finite said:

I think you just fail to understand that other people have a different view than you do.

The law is pretty clear, there is no 'view' to be had here. There is only opinions, which don't matter.

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1 minute ago, So Whimsy said:

The law is pretty clear, there is no 'view' to be had here. There is only opinions, which don't matter.

True. But there is no law. At least yet.

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5 minutes ago, Finite said:

I think you just fail to understand that other people have a different view than you do.

it's no other view anymore, this type of posts have been around on 143 pages, it adds nothing anymore on the 144*th
We don't need explanations about loot boxes or how gacha works ... [rolling eyes]

-edit at * =145  :)

 

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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1 minute ago, So Whimsy said:

The law is pretty clear, there is no 'view' to be had here. There is only opinions, which don't matter.

So you are ok with the conveyer belt system as LL's legal reps feel that it would be within the constraints of the legal framework?

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2 minutes ago, Finite said:

I think you just fail to understand that other people have a different view than you do.

Nooo the point is that who was playing gacha are addicted junkies obtuse dump stupid with mental problems....the rest are doctors lawyers teachers but they still did not get that conveyor or whatever is another way to sell stuff if u don t wanna play u can just don t play and thats it 

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Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

So you are ok with the conveyer belt system as LL's legal reps feel that it would be within the constraints of the legal framework?

Personally no as that system is just not appealing to me (gachas were), but that doesn't matter as it is so far not against the rules laid out by LL.

 

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4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So you are ok with the conveyer belt system as LL's legal reps feel that it would be within the constraints of the legal framework?

no because LL lawyers are no THE law.. they only advice what LL should do. And i'm nearly 100% sure they have no single clue about scripting. ( so they won't find the new scams.)

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

no because LL lawyers are no THE law.. they only advice what LL should do. And i'm nearly 100% sure they have no single clue about scripting.

So your objection to Gacha's has nothing to do with LL's stance on the matter and is more of a personal one?

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1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

no because LL lawyers are no THE law.. they only advice what LL should do. And i'm nearly 100% sure they have no single clue about scripting.

So u mean LL lab lawyers they don t have idea of what they are saying? But just to inform you that LL have different team who talk eachother before to take some action 

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