New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Probably because they want a cash cow.  I was in a shopping group yesterday and they were talking about the conveyors and gachas and a few of us commented on how the new gacha conveyor is also gambling.   One of the creators go mad and ejected me and a few others from the group accusing us of slandering the new device. So obviously looks like some creators will only put stuff and outfits in that dumb thing instead of a vendor.

Excuse me how does the creator take that as slandering? You were telling the truth, clearly this creator couldn't handle the truth. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

I am just gonna say it, this conveyor model seems more predatory, scammy and get rich quick than it's actual predecessor. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Sammy Huntsman

[Silent Mistwalker]

16 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

does it really have to be that? .. i'm simply going to avoid those vendors and only buy direct items.
I been healed from clothes fatpack addiction since some years... buy one or two variances and you can buy a lot more to make combinations.
And furniture i buy at my fav store or if i really want something gacha... MP.. no bandit , direct price and item.

I've been doing that since before gachas were ever on the grid. Now fatpacks are being priced higher than I can afford and they were already out of my reach for the most part. I don't see where I am going to have much of a choice in the future. 

The rich keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer. That's some legacy to leave behind.

[hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian]

14 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I've been doing that since before gachas were ever on the grid. Now fatpacks are being priced higher than I can afford and they were already out of my reach for the most part. I don't see where I am going to have much of a choice in the future. 

The rich keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer. That's some legacy to leave behind.

Buy full perm models and make it yours with your own textures? Full perm models are not just for reselling.

[Silent Mistwalker]

28 minutes ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

Buy full perm models and make it yours with your own textures? Full perm models are not just for reselling.

I've been doing that. Need any FP sculpt maps? That's how long.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

56 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I've been doing that since before gachas were ever on the grid. Now fatpacks are being priced higher than I can afford and they were already out of my reach for the most part. I don't see where I am going to have much of a choice in the future. 

The rich keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer. That's some legacy to leave behind.

And with the new "Gachveyors" some creators might only put certain items in it only instead of a vendor.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

And with the new "Gachveyors" some creators might only put certain items in it only instead of a vendor.

Yeah. Instead of calling it gacha or gachapon they just called it MiaPon. Like people can't figure out where the Pon part comes from. Thin veils rot quickly.

[Rathgrith027]

1 hour ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I am just gonna say it, this conveyor model seems more predatory, scammy and get rich quick than it's actual predecessor. 

Seconded. If any store starts using this to gate off their more desirable items, They'll never see my business again, and I know i'm not the only one.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Rathgrith027

[Rathgrith027]

4 hours ago, Aria Fae said:

SL isn't going to last forever either, in fact with the creaky old engine we're plodding along with at the moment, i'd give it another five years before it either breaks or they need to make major upgrades and changes.

People need to have a contingency plan for finances that doesn't rely on second life, and especially shady practices like gacha and other gambling systems

Linden Lab has actually been dedicating resources to this recently, such as the planned shift from using the older OpenGL API to using Vulkan, which should provide some sizable performance optimizations along with the fact they're going to try and get SL to take more advantage of multi-core processing.

One example of this is that in the latest viewers, Image decoding (When texture data is downloaded from the SL Asset Server, and decoded into a usable format for the viewer from JPEG2000, which is used due to its' high compression rate and losslessness) is now multi-threaded (another word for multicore processing), improving performance when loading assets into the world.

Two years ago I would have agreed with you that LL needs to do something. They still do, yes, but they actually are putting effort into it now.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Rathgrith027

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Aria Fae said:

Patch won't be the first LL Ceo to make stupid decisions that aren't in the best interests of SL ... but hopefully this one won't come to pass..

When did Patch become CEO?  Last I heard, he was VP of Product Operations.  I'm sure he has many people above him that all this has to pass through before a final ok.

[Rathgrith027]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

When did Patch become CEO?  Last I heard, he was VP of Product Operations.  I'm sure he has many people above him that all this has to pass through before a final ok.

It's not so much that he's CEO now but that he and a few other HROs at Linden Lab and Waterfield make up the group that technically superceded Ebbe following his death.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Rathgrith027 said:

It's not so much that he's CEO now but that he and a few other HROs at Linden Lab and Waterfield make up the group that technically superceded Ebbe following his death.

And I mean they can't stop operations with SL. 

 

10 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

Linden Lab has actually been dedicating resources to this recently, such as the planned shift from using the older OpenGL API to using Vulkan, which should provide some sizable performance optimizations along with the fact they're going to try and get SL to take more advantage of multi-core processing.

One example of this is that in the latest viewers, Image decoding (When texture data is downloaded from the SL Asset Server, and decoded into a usable format for the viewer from JPEG2000, which is used due to its' high compression rate and losslessness) is now multi-threaded (another word for multicore processing), improving performance when loading assets into the world.

Two years ago I would have agreed with you that LL needs to do something. They still do, yes, but they actually are putting effort into it now.

Also where did you read of SL converting from OpenGL to Vulkan? 

[Rathgrith027]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Also where did you read of SL converting from OpenGL to Vulkan? 

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-229609?focusedCommentId=638653&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-638653

 

I also brought it up during the Meet the Lindens Q&A this year at SL18B, I can't recall exactly who answered the Vulkan question, But I know that Grumpity did confirm they're working on Multicore.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Rathgrith027

[Qie Niangao]

Wow. Until seeing that jira, I thought this thread was a mess.

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

When did Patch become CEO?  Last I heard, he was VP of Product Operations.  I'm sure he has many people above him that all this has to pass through before a final ok.

https://www.lindenlab.com/about

Without Ebb, it looks like Patch would report to Brad Oberwager, the Executive Chairman.  That's one people. Who's involved in the Gacha decision?  LL isn't saying but you can guess from their management chart at their "about" web page list.  Since they are asking for outside legal advice, their General Counsel is a good guess for one.  Plus the hundreds of "legal experts" here in this thread.  Oh wait, just joking.

Did this policy decision make it to the Board of Directors?  Seems it would be a one minute agenda item during a board meeting.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Silent Mistwalker]

We're not going to make it...

 

to 150 pages.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian]

Wanna bet?

[Tari Landar]

Oh yes we will, it's merely Sunday (in the US), tomorrow is Monday (here in the US anyway). A new wave of disgruntled folks will likely trail in tomorrow. There will be more "WHAT THIS IS THE WORST DECISION LINDEN LABS HAS EVER MADE, I QUIT" posts. There will be more "who the hell came up with this idea?" posts, both referring to the removal of gachas, and the new ideas presented. There will be more "gachaveyors are the debil" posts. There will be more "gachaveyors are second coming of the greatest thing to ever exist in sl" posts. There will be a bunch of crap I don't understand, some crap I do understand, some intelligent posts and a bunch of other stuff I haven't yet thought of.

I assure you, we'll make it to 150, come hell or high water! (probably both, adding in a bit of fire and brimstone for dramatic effect. 

[So Whimsy]

gachaveyors are the debil !!1!!1

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 hour ago, Rathgrith027 said:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-229609?focusedCommentId=638653&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-638653

 

I also brought it up during the Meet the Lindens Q&A this year at SL18B, I can't recall exactly who answered the Vulkan question, But I know that Grumpity did confirm they're working on Multicore.

I just realized this, if they update to vulkan. That will force them to basically do an overhaul on a lot of things in SL. 

 

[Kyau Brodie]

3 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

If this is the way we are going, I am not gonna be buying from these companies at all.Unless they offer a fatpack option. That and with the new rules, Resellers will be a thing of the past. Going forward, all these items will be no transfer. 

Looking at the policy and not seeing anything about the items have to be No Transfer except for 7 seas.

[Irina Forwzy]

9 hours ago, Pixels Sideways said:

 

Anyone who depends on SL to "make a living" is foolish at best.

LL created a platform and a currency for people to play with.  LL is not obligated to be the sole foundation for anyone who chooses to engage in commerce in SL in order to "make a living."

Making money in SL is encouraged because it feeds the LL beast that keeps the game engine running and generates profits for LL.  There is a cyclic dependency in that but LL holds all the cards and those who engage in commerce in SL to make money do not.

LL could fold up shop tomorrow and nothing would happen to them as they are undoubtedly indemnified six ways from Sunday legally. And for those who have invested significantly and built a business on a house of cards, they will be left with nothing and no legal recourse.  It's in the TOS which no one reads because why be bothered with that knowledge.

Creating a dependence on income derived in SL is a huge gamble with significant risks because you have zero control over the decisions the company you are floating your business on makes.

 

Hate to break it to you. If you are American, you work in a house of cards. The work corporation has no obligation to keep you under their payroll.  In fact, a large percentage of American learned and/relearned that a year ago.   Income anywhere is a gamble, you have to be prepared for the day where the corporation, the company, the small business that you work for, sees profit losses or sees you as a risk. Thus you will be in this same boat, with no legal action you can take.

I think we need to start to accept this as the normal way of life, and build multiple business platforms, work on being our own business owners or developing plan B.

These type of comments feel like they tend to come from the same type of person.  That spends 10 hours in game,  complains about it, doesn't buy anything or create anything to it to contribute into it.  And finds everything expensive,  so it's usually an excuse for them not to spend.  But then that's been my previous experience.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Irina Forwzy

[Mairi Fairelander]

5 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

If this is the way we are going, I am not gonna be buying from these companies at all.Unless they offer a fatpack option. That and with the new rules, Resellers will be a thing of the past. Going forward, all these items will be no transfer. 

There is nothing stopping us from selling transfer items in regular WYSIWYG vendors. The only reason I have started making the majority of my items mod/copy/no-trans is because that's what my customers seem to prefer (and I use a vendor system that allows for purchasing as gifts, meaning the recipient gets the copy/mod versions). I am always happy to do a transfer version of an item upon request, but I can't even remember the last time someone wanted a transfer version. I find I get more requests to trade a trans/no-copy of an older design to a copy version.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Elizabeth Burleigh
clarification

[Irina Forwzy]

3 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

https://www.lindenlab.com/about

Without Ebb, it looks like Patch would report to Brad Oberwager, the Executive Chairman.  That's one people. Who's involved in the Gacha decision?  LL isn't saying but you can guess from their management chart at their "about" web page list.  Since they are asking for outside legal advice, their General Counsel is a good guess for one.  Plus the hundreds of "legal experts" here in this thread.  Oh wait, just joking.

Did this policy decision make it to the Board of Directors?  Seems it would be a one minute agenda item during a board meeting.

I've worked in RL financial projects.  Usually they must go through the C-corp level,  and then the board of directors in a corporate level if you have multiple divisions.  I believe, something of this nature that is going to financially impact SL through governmental regulations and/or legal action and not just financial would need to go through these levels and legal too. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Irina Forwzy

[Irina Forwzy]

2 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Oh yes we will, it's merely Sunday (in the US), tomorrow is Monday (here in the US anyway). A new wave of disgruntled folks will likely trail in tomorrow. There will be more "WHAT THIS IS THE WORST DECISION LINDEN LABS HAS EVER MADE, I QUIT" posts. There will be more "who the hell came up with this idea?" posts, both referring to the removal of gachas, and the new ideas presented. There will be more "gachaveyors are the debil" posts. There will be more "gachaveyors are second coming of the greatest thing to ever exist in sl" posts. There will be a bunch of crap I don't understand, some crap I do understand, some intelligent posts and a bunch of other stuff I haven't yet thought of.

I assure you, we'll make it to 150, come hell or high water! (probably both, adding in a bit of fire and brimstone for dramatic effect. 

It may come to 200 from what I gather.  Not everyone knew about the gacha issue.  I found out rather late since I was quite RL focused due to a significant patch. And my back has been weirdly killing me last week so I was up and walking to see if that would minimize it (which it did, somehow walking usually helps my back).  But I found out on Thursday about it. And I had mixed feelings as I see things not just from the angle of us as consumers, but the financial impact it would bring to LL.