'Banned' while flying at Bellisseria

[Qie Niangao]

Seems to me the main unfilled market for security devices is on the most gentle side of the security scale, not the more aggressive. Although it may be possible to spin a just-so story to justify a once-per-millenium automated llTeleportAgentHome, I really doubt that would satisfy a big demand (notwithstanding the ripple of resident paranoia every time a thread like this appears). Rather, it seems many of us have independently concocted scripts to stop doing security at all unless one of a set of agents is currently on the parcel. A script that does that with optimal efficiency and ease-of-use might find a significant unfilled market.

(I must confess, though, I wouldn't be part of that market. I do have a script that monitors for new arrivals only while I'm in my "home" region, but only to alert me of their presence so I can greet them if I'm feeling sociable.)

[Alwin Alcott]

On 5/13/2021 at 6:40 PM, Innula Zenovka said:

I wonder what that does for SL's retention rate  

not very much i think ... a huge majority signs up, but never enters inworld.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Rather, it seems many of us have independently concocted scripts to stop doing security at all unless one of a set of agents is currently on the parcel.

That's a nice feature to have in a security device. I'll add it

[Eddy Vortex]

On 5/17/2021 at 2:17 AM, Phil Deakins said:

With a minimum of 15 second to move on from a Bellisseria parcel, anyone that that happens to doesn't merit any sympathy because that's what they chose to happen. It's their doing.

Half the time the orbs are illegally set at less than 10 seconds or even zero second in some cases.  Sometimes lag or sim borders can slow them down so bad that they can't move fast enough.  Not necessarily of their own doing.

 

[Phil Deakins]

If the time is set 'legally' in Bellisseria, then, imo there is ample time for anyone to move on after seeing the first warning. Any that are set 'illegally' should be reported.

[Kathlen Onyx]

12 minutes ago, Eddy Vortex said:

Half the time the orbs are illegally set at less than 10 seconds or even zero second in some cases.  Sometimes lag or sim borders can slow them down so bad that they can't move fast enough.  Not necessarily of their own doing.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

If the time is set 'legally' in Bellisseria, then, imo there is ample time for anyone to move on after seeing the first warning. Any that are set 'illegally' should be reported.

This totally falls on the responsibility of LL.  What a waste of resources to have to report something that should be a non issue. This is Linden owned land with strict rules in the Covent about the security orbs. They give out their own that follows these rules for free.  I suspect that there is no easy way to prevent anyone from using their own orbs thus the reason they are allowing them.  If this is not the case and any other security orb could be disabled from working in Bellisseria then it should have been done. Surely if they can keep people out of gaming regions from states that don't allow it they can find a way to disable any other security system but their own from working.

[Dyna Mole]

15 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Surely if they can keep people out of gaming regions from states that don't allow it they can find a way to disable any other security system but their own from working.

That doesn't even sound easy.

It's always possible to turn of all scripts in a parcel or region, but I can't think of a way to lock up just one script -- especially if I don't know exactly which script to lock. There are a huge number of security systems out there, and it's not hard to write new ones.  Even if I had a tool that could target a specific type of orb, we'd be playing an endless game of Whack-A-Mole to find and lock them all.  That's sort of the situation we are already facing as we try to keep up with the evil ones that residents report with ARs, so that hypothetical tool wouldn't help much.

Worse than that, if I could think of a way to lock someone else's script, you can bet that griefers would also be able to do it.  Talk about my worst nightmare ..... 🥺

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

If someone feels they need to ban everyone who enters their parcel in Bellisseria regardless of intent and even when they themselves aren't even there, perhaps Bellisseria isn't the place for them. They might be happier on mainland or a private estate.

 

So not allowing anyone on your parcel when you are not logged in (not by banning but by restricting access to owner only) is against the covenant?  Not even RL HMOs can go so far as to not allow people to lock their doors when away from home to keep people out that don't need to be there when you are not at home. Yes rules/laws/guidelines are needed but they can go too far. This is going too far.

I had really believed it when we were told LL was working towards making things more affordable and accessible a few years ago. Instead, the exact opposite has happened. SL is even less affordable now that it was just 2 years ago.

I know  no one gives a damn if I get shoved out of SL this way but the problem is, I'm not the only one this is happening to and has happened to. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since most seem to want SL to be exactly like RL. They're getting what they want and it makes SL an unpleasant place to be when you are trying to get away from RL for a much needed break.

Even nobodies like me need an escape but we aren't allowed because we're poor.

[Solar Legion]

Abnor, that is the exact sort of attitude we do not need - at all.

Being very blunt here: Unless there are plans to have a non-vehicle lovers segment of the new continent, it should not ever be considered as any sort of replacement for the current Linden Homes nor should it even be in the same program now.

[Qie Niangao]

35 minutes ago, Dyna Mole said:

That doesn't even sound easy.

It's always possible to turn of all scripts in a parcel or region, but I can't think of a way to lock up just one script -- especially if I don't know exactly which script to lock. There are a huge number of security systems out there, and it's not hard to write new ones.  Even if I had a tool that could target a specific type of orb, we'd be playing an endless game of Whack-A-Mole to find and lock them all.  That's sort of the situation we are already facing as we try to keep up with the evil ones that residents report with ARs, so that hypothetical tool wouldn't help much.

Worse than that, if I could think of a way to lock someone else's script, you can bet that griefers would also be able to do it.  Talk about my worst nightmare ..... 🥺

It would be a significant change, but one could imagine a change to the LSL function library such that all calls to llTeleportAgentHome, llEjectFromLand, and llAddToLandBanList would be tested for being on Mole-Managed Mainland, and if so, silently fail unless they were in a script owned by a Mole or a Linden. This is nothing like how it works now, but it wouldn't be completely impossible.

Granted, residents used physics for "security" back before any of these nicer functions existed, and there are probably even nastier griefer-based "security" steps that could be taken by industrious orbmakers, but it would be one volley in a war of attrition.

[Garnet Psaltery]

1 hour ago, Dyna Mole said:

[...]  Even if I had a tool that could target a specific type of orb, we'd be playing an endless game of Whack-A-Mole to find and lock them all.  [...]

 

I don't think Moles should beat themselves up about it.

[Phil Deakins]

In this thread, I've been posting about what I find fault with in Bellisseria's covenant, but I don't only find faults. I thoroughly approve of one new thing that's in the covenant. It's the free-fly zone.

Through the years, we've had many threads almost pleading for a free-fly zone throughout SL. Nobody ever suggested one as deep as it is in Bellisseria. The suggestions were in the region of 100 to 300 meters deep. They did want it a bit lower than 400m though, and, not being a flyer-explorer, I'm not sure whether or not 400m is a bit too high, but a very deep free-fly zone is implemented and that's all to the good, imo.

[Sid Nagy]

I've been around in Bellisseria for quite some time now, building on a bunch of different parcels (because of my business) on different sims. Online daily. Never ever saw someone on or near my parcel except an occasional neighbor minding his/her own business.

My personal conclusion: the orbs are mainly a solution for a hardly existing problem.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Phil Deakins]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

Never ever saw someone on or near my parcel except an occasional neighbor minding his/her own business.

Probably because they are all up above doing things that they don't want people to watch them doing

 

[Sid Nagy]

You mean two puppets pretending to have sex?
Wow, how exciting can it get.

I think it has only emotional value for the two puppets involved.

Peeping Toms can better go to other places on the Internet.
The lousiest pron movie on the Internet beats that puppet sex with a factor of 10 to watch.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:52 AM, Jerilynn Lemon said:

Both responses tell me something I hadn't thought before.

Just the same, if someone has a home at Bellisseria and uses an orb, please (for the sake of the kittens) set up to allow one to fly over and not shoot down/send home. It's the precise reason I would stay away from Mainland. Got to be a mine field flying there.

The problem is this, you are entering a private area even the sky. People use skyboxes and you are intruding on their privacy. So you need to respect their privacy. 

[Rowan Amore]

Would there be a way to have ban lines  NOT show on specific.regions such as Belli?  Since the ban only goes up 50m from ground level, it wouldn't restrict airspace at all.  Also, parcel boundaries seem to be set back enough from roadways so as not to impede ground vehicles either.  No one get ejected, sent off somewhere.  If you try to walk into a parcel, a bump on the nose when you hit that invisible wall is hardly a disruption.   Just wondering if ban lines being invisible to all on Belli is a possibility.

[Dyna Mole]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

Through the years, we've had many threads almost pleading for a free-fly zone throughout SL. Nobody ever suggested one as deep as it is in Bellisseria. The suggestions were in the region of 100 to 300 meters deep. They did want it a bit lower than 400m though, and, not being a flyer-explorer, I'm not sure whether or not 400m is a bit too high, but a very deep free-fly zone is implemented and that's all to the good, imo.

Thanks. That lower limit is a bit arbitrary, but we took several things into account.  The maximum height at which objects can be seen on the world map, for example, is 400m.  Also, there have been several discussions here in the forums about how far above someone's house you have to be before it's impossible to cam inside.  It turns out that it's something like 300m.  When you take into account that we have terraformed Bellisseria with some "mountainous" regions that are well above the average 22m elevation of most of the Mainland, it seemed that setting the lower edge of the fly zone at 400m was a reasonable choice.  It's high enough to keep travelers from peeking into places where they shouldn't. The 2000m upper limit guarantees that flyers won't bump into any skyboxes or random garbage either.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Dyna Mole
EDIT: Ooops... Thanks, Phil

[Phil Deakins]

7 minutes ago, Dyna Mole said:

The 1000m upper limit guarantees that flyers won't bump into any skyboxes or random garbage either.

2000 meters

[LittleMe Jewell]

32 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

The problem is this, you are entering a private area even the sky. People use skyboxes and you are intruding on their privacy. So you need to respect their privacy. 

When talking about Bellisseria, it depends on what height you are at.  Per the Bellisseria covenant, the sky from 400-2000m is  'public space'.  Only the area below 400m and above 2000m is 'private space'.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

You mean two puppets pretending to have sex?
Wow, how exciting can it get.

I think it has only emotional value for the two puppets involved.

Peeping Toms can better go to other places on the Internet.
The lousiest pron movie on the Internet beats that puppet sex with a factor of 10 to watch.

 

How many houses would you have to actually peep into before finding someone to watch? If they set their settings on their parcel correctly you can't even cam in and see anything.  If they happen to land on your land just kick them out. If they come back then ban them. I swear people have no issues with having sex with cartoon characters but find it intruding if someone sees them for 15 seconds?  I hardly get anyone on any of the land I own. Perhaps that just makes me unpopular. ~Shrugs~

2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

So not allowing anyone on your parcel when you are not logged in (not by banning but by restricting access to owner only) is against the covenant?  Not even RL HMOs can go so far as to not allow people to lock their doors when away from home to keep people out that don't need to be there when you are not at home. Yes rules/laws/guidelines are needed but they can go too far. This is going too far.

 

Why why do you need locked doors if you are not there?  Yes, in RL you are allowed to lock your doors because people can actually STEAL things.  If set up correctly the most that they can even do is sit in a chair and admire the nice painting you chose to put on your wall or see that you have adult furniture.  

Edited May 18, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Solar Legion]

It is quite telling that those who see no need for such access controls always bring up the lack of ability to steal items from another's parcel .... It is almost as though they imagine this is the concern, even when it is very clearly spelled out for them.

[Odaks]

Wrong link posted! This is the one I meant to post:-

 

 

The above thred kicked off in April 2019 and ran to some 15 pages before fizzling out. I'm sure you will all be familiar with it; it is, after all, in the correct place - the Land section.

Nothing new is emerging after 6 pages of this thread. Travellers hate being sent home (inevitably without the vehicle) and the "get-off-my-lawn" brigade want nukes.

@Phil Deakinsadmirably attempts to script a security orb that might save Bellisserian residents 1 prim, by covering identified height sections in a single security system instead of having to use two of the free, 1 prim security orbs provided by LL. Is that really worth all the effort though? I would suggest not. In addition, if LL's covenant rules alter in the future, they have a degree of control over their supplied security systems. Third party security sytems might muddy the water somewhat.
@Abnor Mole summed the Bellisseria position up, quite succinctly, when he said, "If someone feels they need to ban everyone who enters their parcel in Bellisseria regardless of intent and even when they themselves aren't even there, perhaps Bellisseria isn't the place for them. They might be happier on mainland or a private estate."

Edited May 18, 2021 by Odaks
wrong link! Corrected, with any luck.

[Solar Legion]

Ah yes, another misinterpretation of the viewpoints .... Happened every time the topic of travel cropped up in the past and now seems to be the go to for "explaining" why a Linden project that should have been aimed solely at creating a specific community (not an eventual replacement to an existing program) ...

Why am I not surprised?

ETA: To be quite clear, I am all for a Linden run project to create a community for those who wish to explore and use vehicles. Knock yerselves out. What I am not for is it being expanded outside of said community or the result being used as any sort of replacement for the older crop of Homes.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Solar Legion

[Garnet Psaltery]

There is a difference between providing first homes and encouraging a community of very likeminded people who prefer open doors.  If Bellisseria is meant to be the former, then I don't see why those who wish to have control over their own home shouldn't do so.  If it's the latter, then it's obvious to me that I don't fit in.  I have tried to explain a couple of the reasons why I want such control. @Abnor MoleI don't think you can have read the comment I made about one of those reasons (perhaps it wasn't in this topic but in the Linden Homes section), that I don't want to log in to find someone in my home; it's disturbing.  There are those here who are quick to make a laughing judgement about it and call people like myself paranoid- why such prejudice is considered acceptable I don't know - but if theirs is the majority view, and the view that the Bellisseria Lindens and Moles agree with, then I'll pack up and go.

[ETA]  I've packed up and gone.  Not a flounce, just a moment of realisation.  

Edited May 18, 2021 by Garnet Psaltery