'Banned' while flying at Bellisseria

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

People acting if the LL viewer is inferior.
That is what's bugging me most of the time.
It is a great stable frequently updated viewer.

My distrust of third party software is not limited to the SL viewers.
It is a general distrust. I would not do my RL banking with third party software either.

 

 

Because it is compared to some of the TPVs.

It shouldn't bother you. Why allow it to?

Yes but it doesn't have features wanted by creators that LL has refused to even entertain the thought of.

Your mistrust is understandable up to a point but you have gone beyond that point into paranoia territory. Don't do that to yourself.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

If you used the Firestorm predecessor, Emerald, in that time, your computer was used for a DDoS attack on another system. YOU might not have noticed but I consider that to be a problem that you had.

No, not every user's PC. Please make sure you have all the facts before jumping to conclusions.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Firestorm and it's team are clearly upstanding residents in LL eyes whatever went on in the past is over and the people responsible are no longer a problem.  Your guilt by association routine is getting old.  Don't you think that if FS and it's team were up to something nefarious that someone would have been delighted to bring it to LL's attention by now?  How strange that it hasn't happened.

It's gone beyond having gotten old. It was over 10 years ago. People need to let that go instead of harping on something ONE PERSON DID without the knowledge of the rest of the dev team.

[Kathlen Onyx]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Your mistrust is understandable up to a point but you have gone beyond that point into paranoia territory. Don't do that to yourself.

If you've ever had your identity stolen and have lost access to your funds and it turned your life upside down and was a general PITA to fix and deal with you may understand.  Let's not tell people they are paranoid when they simply are protecting themselves.  You know what IS paranoid though? Worrying about whether or not someone is in your LL home when you are not online.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

You're not reading straight now, either. I'll try to explain it.

Before Emerald was outed for its criminal activity, it was thought to be totally above board. That was then. Now, every third party viewer is in exactly the same situation - thought to be above board. But we don't know what these anonymous people have put under the hoods, like we didn't know what those anonymous people had put under Emerald's hood.

I hope that explains it.

 Linden Lab Policy on Third Party Viewers

https://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php

[Phil Deakins]

17 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, not every user's PC. Please make sure you have all the facts before jumping to conclusions.

Oh, I didn't jump to any conclusions. My post that you quoted shows that very clearly. It's why I wrote "If you...". Go back and have a look

 

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Aethelwine said:

They can but also likely to try teleport outside the house only to end up back inside because of the teleport routing. 

Not in Bellisseria. The roads there are not owned by house owners.

[Sid Nagy]

@Silent MistwalkerWhat I noticed in this thread (and elsewhere) that it is generally accepted  and okay to dwell with Firestorm, but ZOMG if you hold something against that.
The official viewer isn't bad at all and because there is money involved IMHO safer to use than whatever third party software, not even produced by a company that can be held responsible when there should be a miss conduct.

Honestly I have nothing more to tell about it.

Some people think that their key under the doormat or that planter next to the door is a save solution as well when they leave the house. It has been safe for years already.
Still their choice not mine.
 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Phil Deakins]

24 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It's gone beyond having gotten old. It was over 10 years ago. People need to let that go instead of harping on something ONE PERSON DID without the knowledge of the rest of the dev team.

The point is that one person did do it, as you said. And, at the time it was happening, everything look perfectly fine and good with the 3rd party viewer - just like everything looks fine and good with 3rd party viewers right now

Edited May 19, 2021 by Phil Deakins

[Kathlen Onyx]

9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

That way I don't  have to worry about logging in and finding someone like you invading my privacy.

Trust me honey...you have NOTHING to worry about there.

[Istelathis]

I for one, welcome viewer diversity The more the merrier, I do need to install LL viewer though, I haven't used it in a long while.. I've mostly been using singularity because I find it crashes a lot less in congested areas.  Firestorm I adore for the many options it has built in though, plus it was my first viewer that worked nicely - I started out on linux and tried to get LL's viewer to run on wine before finding out there were linux viewers out there.  Now I'm going to download the LL viewer to test it out.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

@Silent MistwalkerWhat I noticed in this thread (and elsewhere) that it is okay to dwell with Firestorm, but ZOMG if you hold something against that.
The official viewer isn't bad at all and because there is money involved IMHO safer to use than whatever third party software, not even produced by a company that can be held responsible when there should be a miss conduct.

Honestly I have nothing more to tell about it.

Some people think that their key under the doormat or that planter next to the door is a save solution as well when they leave the house. It has been safe for years already.
Still their choice not mine.
 

 

I understand Sid. I'm just telling you that I know from my own experience and knowledge that no TPV has access to your Tilia account. 

Even I was very wary of Phoenix when it "rose from the ashes of" Emerald. Then I learned the truth about what happened. It didn't go down like most people believe it did.

I'm not trying to convince you to change viewers, just trying to let you know that LL's viewer is no more or less safe than any of the approved TPVs so if you ever decide you want to try one, you can be confident nothing is going to happen to your Ls or USD balance.

[Eddy Vortex]

Firestorm otakus are an odd bunch.

Sid is not the only user of the official viewer and his reason is a valid one.  If something goes wrong, there is a real company with a real address that can be held responsible. Third party viewer? Who you gonna collar when things go pear-shaped?

I prefer the offical viewer for additional reasons other than security. I get to play with the latest features before TPVs get around to updating their wares. BoM is one example. When it went live, it took Firestorm weeks to catch up.  Sure, I can't derender and will never know who's ogling my butt; do I really care about whose name is attached to the crosshairs? I also never have to worry about random RLV controls.

As for the local chat commands like gth? I can plug in the elevation number after the last trailing slash in the surl bar in the offical viewer and it works just fine. 😛

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Eddy Vortex

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, Eddy Vortex said:

I [...] will never know who's ogling my butt

Whew!

[Coffee Pancake]

TPV's are held to a high standard by LL - we know it's game over if we cross lines, if anything ,this alone is responsible for the slow nature of feature development out of an abundance of caution. The seat of the pants emerald days are long gone. Third party viewer development has grown up, ideas are debated ad nauseum looking for misuse cases, user support is a driving factor in everything. 

We might not always agree on the implementation of certain features, or bicker over the exact nature of Niran's trouser allergy, but at the end of the day the goal is shared with LL. It doesn't matter what viewer you use, just so long as you log in.

ALL TPV's have submitted code to LL that's now in the official viewer, and we're always looking .. time and motivation depending .. for more things that can become part of the common viewer experience - because this makes the job of keeping our code and the Lab's in sync much easier.

Just stick to the TPV directory, show up to the TPV meetings with us & LL, If you're on Catznip send me an IM. (I'm genuinely happy to talk shop as a few here can attest to).

 

[TrophySpouse]

On 5/18/2021 at 5:21 PM, Rowan Amore said:

That it's NOT about people stealing things, obviously.

Ok. But I honestly don't understand what Solar was saying about people who don't use security orbs.

[Rowan Amore]

39 minutes ago, TrophySpouse said:

Ok. But I honestly don't understand what Solar was saying about people who don't use security orbs

Someone wondered why people are use security orbs since it's not as if people could steal your stuff (kind of a snide remark IMO) .  The points being mentioned here as to why people use them was apparently missed.   The 'people can't steal your stuff" is a common response to people who use orbs.  The fact I don't want to come home and find someone I don't know sitting in my house as it upsets me and others?  A very valid reason.  

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Someone wondered why people are use security orbs since it's not as if people could steal your stuff (kind of a snide remark IMO) .  The points being mentioned here as to why people use them was apparently missed.   The 'people can't steal your stuff" is a common response to people who use orbs.  The fact I don't want to come home and find someone I don't know sitting in my house as it upsets me and others?  A very valid reason.  

That would be me and yes, it was meant to be a snide remark

If coming "home" and finding someone is in your home is upsetting  or disturbing as someone else said then maybe you should reevaluate participating in a social game. I mean if that happened to me *and I doubt anyone would just be sitting there* I'd simply kick them out and ban them. Simple, easy and move on with the rest of my day. 

 

[Eddy Vortex]

47 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Someone wondered why people are use security orbs since it's not as if people could steal your stuff (kind of a snide remark IMO) .  The points being mentioned here as to why people use them was apparently missed.   The 'people can't steal your stuff" is a common response to people who use orbs.  The fact I don't want to come home and find someone I don't know sitting in my house as it upsets me and others?  A very valid reason.  

Some people don't want their houses to be open spaces for randos and I respect their right to use orbs.  I have no issues with responsible orb owners complying with Bellisseria's covenant.

You're right about the snide remark towards (some) orb users.  My snark is more directed at those who have theirs at hostile settings.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Eddy Vortex

[Arielle Popstar]

Never owned or used an orb as I prefer playing around with any unknown hapless vict...visitor to my lair.

 

[Rowan Amore]

[TrophySpouse]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Someone wondered why people are use security orbs since it's not as if people could steal your stuff (kind of a snide remark IMO) .  The points being mentioned here as to why people use them was apparently missed.   The 'people can't steal your stuff" is a common response to people who use orbs.  The fact I don't want to come home and find someone I don't know sitting in my house as it upsets me and others?  A very valid reason.  

Thank you for explaining.

[Solar Legion]

It .... wasn't that hard to understand/parse, especially when in context with this - and other, older - threads/"discussions".

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

I think one or two made the mistake of assuming I use security orbs. I don't need  security orbs because I know how to use the tools LL provided us and use them I do... without prejudice and just a tinge of malice. 😈

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I think one or two made the mistake of assuming I use security orbs. I don't need  security orbs because I know how to use the tools LL provided us and use them I do... without prejudice and just a tinge of malice. 😈

Adding to this it would seem that more than a few are incapable of perceiving that not everyone that does use Security systems has them set unreasonably.

Mind, what some seem to find "reasonable" is - to me anyway - rather laughably generous.