Default avatar light-skinned? This could change ASAP :)

[KasiaAleksa]

I just made a new alt account and I chose non-binary and was given a light-skinned/white avatar.

 

Okay it's fine but how about being able to choose avatar when signing up? From many options?

 

When I joined SL before I believe I was given a choice of a few starter avatars of different skin tones.

 

There must be a creative solution for this that LL can do to change this

 

Is there any way LL can make this more inclusive from the get go?

 

Thank you!

 

[edited for better energy]

Edited October 29, 2020 by KasiaAleksa

[KasiaAleksa]

It would just be so fun if so many people were welcomed and represented from the get go in SL, that's all... 😢 :')

[Theresa Tennyson]

10 minutes ago, KasiaAleksa said:

I just made a new alt account and I chose non-binary and was given a light-skinned/white avatar.

 

Okay it's fine but how about being able to choose avatar when signing up? From many options?

 

When I joined SL before I believe I was given a choice of a few starter avatars of different skin tones.

 

There must be a creative solution for this that LL can do to change this

 

Is there any way LL can make this more inclusive from the get go?

 

Thank you!

 

[edited for better energy]

I believe the reason the Lab changed this was that people signing up thought that the initial avatar selection shown were the only avatars available, so if they didn't see one they liked they didn't continue registration. You can still choose from all the available starter avatars once you're logged in.

[simplemint]

Yes, the initial avatar given is always light-skinned. (At least, it was when I joined a couple of weeks ago). Mine was a light-skinned, female avatar.

It would be nice if there was more choice at the beginning in terms of the avatar you start out with, at least with different choices so that people know that that is possible from the get-go without having to buy or seek out different skins.

It was tough for me to figure out where the other starter avatars were - I didn't even know they had them - because I couldn't find the button for them! That's on me I suppose, but it might be nice if that could be better highlighted for newbies to let them know how to do it.

I remember watching a YouTube video of a newbie, a Black woman, who was a bit disappointed that her character was light-skinned and didn't know how to change it to another. She ended up going shopping to buy herself a skin she preferred more.

Could it be possible that people would end up not continuing should they not be clear about how to customize their avatar to something they would prefer more from the beginning, without shopping (whether based on skin colour, hair colour, fashion, etc.)? 

Edited October 29, 2020 by simplemint
adding a question

[Chaser Zaks]

The choice on the sign up page was removed in favor of the "Choose an Avatar" floater that appears when first launching the viewer. I believe this change was made to better allow people to preview the avatar choices in-world. You will probably not see this floater if you are making a alternative account, as the "First launch" flag is set to False.

The current sign-up implementation appears to give people a random avatar from the pool of avatars where the gender of the random avatar matches the Resident's choice upon sign up.

This is the current pool of avatars as of October 2020:

Quote

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Chaser Zaks
Made the very large image collapsable

[Bree Giffen]

If it makes you feel better, the base avatar inside all of our avatars is Ruth and she is a brown skinned female. Not sure about her sexuality. 

[Fauve Aeon]

1 hour ago, KasiaAleksa said:

I just made a new alt account

If it is an alt account then you know the drill, rarely does anyone stay in the first incarnation of their avatar when there are so many great ways to customize our avatars. Since we can do that right away, I’m not sure exactly where the problem is. 
I can even say that maybe the starter avatars are kept a little too few and a bit generic to actually encourage you to customize them to suit yourself better. Just as the Linden Homes are limited in features by design, knowing full well that many people will ‘outgrow’ them. 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

1 hour ago, Chaser Zaks said:

The choice on the sign up page was removed in favor of the "Choose an Avatar" floater that appears when first launching the viewer. I believe this change was made to better allow people to preview the avatar choices in-world. You will probably not see this floater if you are making a alternative account, as the "First launch" flag is set to False.

The current sign-up implementation appears to give people a random avatar from the pool of avatars where the gender of the random avatar matches the Resident's choice upon sign up.

This is the current pool of avatars as of October 2020:

 

What a bunch of ugly mugs.. no wonder people dont stay long after seeing those as their choices to start off with..

[Lucia Nightfire]

I want a selection of attack helicopters to choose from, personally.

The edgey/angsty teens would go with the Hind, you just know it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I'm a little confused as to why so many people seem to be taking exception to what is really, surely, a pretty innocuous idea.

I don't really think this is a "social justice" issue or anything like that -- but surely it is in LL's best interest to make new users feel as comfortable and welcome as possible? And making at least a small selection of avatars representing different ethnicities available at the beginning of the process is a pretty logical place to start, isn't it? I know, as a woman, I feel more "welcome" when I'm given options that are inclusive and speak to me as a woman. It's not that I'm "offended" if such options aren't immediately available -- it's just, as I say, more welcoming. People like to know that they, and their identity, have been considered and accounted for, rather than it being simply assumed that "white male" is the norm from which everything else is a special deviation.

I haven't created a new account in years, so I have no idea what it looks like now -- maybe it is different for first time users? In any case, even if the OP is under a mistaken impression, I'm not sure why all of the angst is necessary.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra
Missing word. Can you guess which one? PARTY GAME!

[FairreLilette]

46 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

but surely it is in LL's best interest to make new users feel as comfortable and welcome as possible? And making at least a small selection of avatars representing different

I think there is a misunderstanding.  You do get to choose which avatar you want from a pool of avatars IF a new user.  If it's an alt account, you may not.  I guess the thinking there is LL is not going to give a bunch of free avatars to all the alts people want.

As a matter of fact, I have 3 accounts altogether right now.  My first two accounts I was able to choose from a pool (very good variety) of different avatars.  When I made my 3rd account, it just gave me a female, not my skin color either and not white like my real life self.  IOW, on my 3rd alt, LL made the choice of avatar.  I was not planning anyways on keeping any of the avatars LL gives me when I start either main or alt.  It seems that's what happened to the OP, he was just given an avatar (no choice) just like I was with my 3rd alt, as the OP states this is an ALT account they just started not a new account.  

[Rowan Amore]

29 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I think there is a misunderstanding.  You do get to choose which avatar you want from a pool of avatars IF a new user.  If it's an alt account, you may not.  I guess the thinking there is LL is not going to give a bunch of free avatars to all the alts people want.

As a matter of fact, I have 3 accounts altogether right now.  My first two accounts I was able to choose from a pool (very good variety) of different avatars.  When I made my 3rd account, it just gave me a female, not my skin color either and not white like my real life self.  IOW, on my 3rd alt, LL made the choice of avatar.  I was not planning anyways on keeping any of the avatars LL gives me when I start either main or alt.  It seems that's what happened to the OP, he was just given an avatar (no choice) just like I was with my 3rd alt, as the OP states this is an ALT account they just started not a new account.  

I think we should all start out as little blue hands with one big eyeball.

[FairreLilette]

10 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I think we should all start out as little blue hands with one big eyeball.

Well, I didn't want any of the avi's LL gave me neither for my main nor alt.  All I see a starter av for is a vehicle to go shopping.  So, hands and one eye is fine too.  

But, again, for alts, I'm not sure we get to choose what avatar we want.  At least on my 3rd one, I didn't.  But, again, to me, it was just a vehicle to go shopping in.  I want to ditch the starter avi's asap.  As far as for newcomer's, they get a choice of avatars still, I'm sure.  Date of my last alt was over a year ago when I just rezzed into SL suddenly with no choice of an avatar.  It wasn't a horrible avi, it's just I have no desire to be a starter avi.  

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, I didn't want any of the avi's LL gave me neither for my main nor alt.  All I see a starter av for is a vehicle to go shopping.  So, hands and one eye is fine too.  

But, again, for alts, I'm not sure we get to choose what avatar we want.  At least on my 3rd one, I didn't.  But, again, to me, it was just a vehicle to go shopping in.  I want to ditch the starter avi's asap.  As far as for newcomer's, they get a choice of avatars still, I'm sure.  Date of my last alt was over a year ago when I just rezzed into SL suddenly with no choice of an avatar.  It wasn't a horrible avi, it's just I have no desire to be a starter avi.  

With the pool of talent LL has available, it would be nice if they would create a mesh avatar that would be able to use some available clothing or at the least, provide the current avatars with alpha huds.  They've had people create the mesh avs  so just take it a step further and provide the ability of alpha as needed since most clothing doesn't provide an alpha layer anymore.  When we all came in with the old default bodies, you could wear anything.  Not so anymore and I think a big reason why people get frustrated.  Or, make the existing starter mesh avs BOM.

Edited October 30, 2020 by RowanMinx

[simplemint]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I think there is a misunderstanding.  You do get to choose which avatar you want from a pool of avatars IF a new user. 

When I signed up a few weeks ago, this wasn't the case. I am a new user to SL and have never registered before. 

In the picture that Chaser Zaks posted, it was the woman with the hat that I ended up getting. I do not remember having a pool to choose from - it's possible I misremembered, but had there been a pool, I highly doubt I would have chosen the woman with the hat.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, RowanMinx said:

I think we should all start out as little blue hands with one big eyeball.

Since we're going to the cloud, LL should offer various colored puff cloud avatars to commemorate the occasion.

[Evah Baxton]

Start all new members in AV edit mode with gray skin color. Don't allow them to continue until they've saved their AV.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Evah Baxton

[Robin Kiyori]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm a little confused as to why so many people seem to be taking exception to what is really, surely, a pretty innocuous idea.

I don't really think this is a "social justice" issue or anything like that -- but surely it is in LL's best interest to make new users feel as comfortable and welcome as possible? And making at least a small selection of avatars representing different ethnicities available at the beginning of the process is a pretty logical place to start, isn't it? I know, as a woman, I feel more "welcome" when I'm given options that are inclusive and speak to me as a woman. It's not that I'm "offended" if such options aren't immediately available -- it's just, as I say, more welcoming. People like to know that they, and their identity, have been considered and accounted for, rather than it being simply assumed that "white male" is the norm from which everything else is a special deviation.

I haven't created a new account in years, so I have no idea what it looks like now -- maybe it is different for first time users? In any case, even if the OP is under a mistaken impression, I'm not sure why all of the angst is necessary.

I have to agree with you Scylla. The amount of hostility from some of the folks posting here is pretty bizzare and unessarcy. It's much more logical for there to be a selection and tutorial on how to change further then what op described right?

 

Some of the reactions of afew posters are just..

You (general you not directed to Scylla) all do know that not everything related to folks wanting more choice for the start, even for alts isn't "playing the victim" or "sjws runing everything!!!!" Right?
It's just good buisness sense for an international game like second life.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Robin Kiyori

[Evah Baxton]

BTW, kudos for posting AND knowing what you were getting into.

 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I think there is a misunderstanding.  You do get to choose which avatar you want from a pool of avatars IF a new user.  If it's an alt account, you may not.  I guess the thinking there is LL is not going to give a bunch of free avatars to all the alts people want.

If you go to Avatar->Choose Avatar from the menu, you get to choose from all of the avatars whether you are an new or old account.  So I don't think LL has a problem with anyone getting their free avatars, especially as they are all in the Inventory Library as well.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, Robin Kiyori said:

Some of the reactions of afew posters are just..

You (general you not directed to Scylla) all do know that not everything related to folks wanting more choice for the start, even for alts isn't "playing the victim" or "sjws runing everything!!!!" Right?

It's just good buisness sense for an international game like second life.

More choice = more good, sometimes.

There are many reasons related to human psychology to reduce choice. Look up "analysis paralysis" and "beauty in simplicity (in design)" for example. LL has used these to reduce the complexity of the signup process in many ways for new accounts.

But I think the main reason for the overall tone of responses in this particular thread (not seen as much in other threads with similar subjects) is the opening line.

"I chose non-binary and was given a light-skinned/white avatar."

Like, excuse me? Light-skinned/white people can't be non-binary? Or is it the skin color in general that's the issue? They did follow that up with "okay, it's fine" but then made the whole thread about how it's neither okay nor fine.

That totally comes off as playing the victim and/or what some people call SJW issues.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Nick0678]

I can totally understand what you are saying and it shouldn't be that way. The Default avatar and Alts shouldn't be white, they should be just shaped to look like an egg or ghosts.

But since you have noticed that it's funny that 17 years later and Linden Lab still makes the MALE avatars without a p**is which means there aren't any male avatars at all.

That should change ASAP as well.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 minute ago, Nick0678 said:

Linden Lab still makes the MALE avatars without a p**is which means there aren't any male avatars at all.

Careful there.

[Nick0678]

Just now, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Careful there.

What for. If this is a virtual world or an 18+ game every skin color, body shape and gender should be available by the defailts.

Based on facts there aren't, luckily those are provided by user content that makes this world/game somehow realistic.

[Pussycat Catnap]

5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm a little confused as to why so many people seem to be taking exception to what is really, surely, a pretty innocuous idea.

Racist snowflakes get triggered out of their safe spaces very easily

It would have been interesting to see if the responses would have been different if the OP had asked for more variety in choices without referring to skin tone. I suspect the outrage would not have existed. There might still have been some "they do it that way because of this" responses, but the tone would have almost certainly been more polite...

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap