Making things more complicated isn't improvement

[Paul Hexem]

23 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I wonder if that's true now, though, not because SL appeals to anything gamers care about -- it clearly doesn't and never has -- but because such an overwhelming share of the populace qualifies as "gamer" by some standard. At least most play one of the casual games du jour on their phones. And based on market size, a scary big percentage of people must play one of the graphically demanding games, too. It's not that SL can ever be one of those games, but rather that folks exposed to that level of graphics are going to have a higher threshold of 3D performance than we few remaining non-gamers. I'm not sure there's future in excluding anybody who has ever played those high-end games.

 

14 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I take your point, and it's a good one, but I don't think it means what you are suggesting it means.

Doesn't matter if you're a hard core Call of Duty gamer or you play Angry Birds on your phone- you expect to see reasonable response times and framerates, even if you don't know those words. It's an intuitive thing.

 

10 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Do you want a creative and social 'world' where you can be whatever you want or do you want a game that just happens to let you make content for it, within very specific restrictions? You cannot have both.

Incorrect. More and more games are going open world, with private regions and homes, options to build your own structures (Check out Ark: Survival Evolved someday - private islands, animals to breed, build your own places...), and you can even often upload your own models and textures. SL is simply not that unique anymore.

 

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I think you missed my point. Maybe it's because my "gaming" peaked with typing "advent" on a VT100 and I haven't found a "game" that interested me since -- and yet I've been tremendously influenced by the advance of interactive 3D computer graphics, advances for which gaming sets the standard. I don't know nor care which games promoted which technical advances, but I know I'm super interested when something relevant becomes available in SL. I loved "Materials" and I'm really loving EEP even though I never aspired to play a high end video game.

Bingo. Ignoring "gaming" is the biggest mistake we could make.

[Maryanne Solo]

6 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

I remember being horribly disappointed when I came to SL and learned it's primitives were not using constructive solid geometry or something similar to the 3D CAD systems I was working with.  I got over it though.

Having had 6 shops based on simple textured clothes, the time came to go prims 😳 and I recoiled in horror. 😱
Prims are what made me give up making clothes for SL and go to 3d mesh in RL but still frequent SL until today.

This tiny little switch in "playing around making clothes" (which is what I came to SL to do),
changed my real life for ever.
(inside connexions) VIP e-mail: Would you like to work for huge game company ____ ____? 🤑
International moving expenses covered/amazing wage, rly cool peeps blah blah blah...? 
noooo but thank you soo much anyways ❤️

I owe LL a debt of gratitude for the decision to go to full mesh a long time ago..
I will return to making clothes for SL at some point. 
Prolly when I am reclining on Lord Howe Island, exhaling contentedly as the butler gets me another Opal Nera. 😊

Edited May 1, 2020 by Maryanne Solo

[OptimoMaximo]

8 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Pallas Athena is a multi-tasking goddess and one of her jobs was as a goddess of warfare so a pike wouldn't be out of place.

LOL you're talking to one whose name is OptimoMaximo, can you catch the reference? 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Doesn't matter if you're a hard core Call of Duty gamer or you play Angry Birds on your phone- you expect to see reasonable response times and framerates, even if you don't know those words. It's an intuitive thing.

Sure, of course. The issue, Gadget Paul (sorry, it's gonna take time!), is what constitutes "reasonable."

60 FPS? Come on, really?

[Elisaisabel Munro]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:56 AM, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The first time I got to know Second Life was around the year 2012. I did'n't have time to use it much back then, but the thing I remember was this: Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...). 

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds. And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

Sorry for the wall of text..
Yes, this forum has a lot ot trolls... and they don't care about you or anybody.  I percieved your post more as a need for advice, to see if people agree with you or not and why, and not ""funny"" stuff and people laughing when you want serious replies.  If they think it is "set in stone" then, move along! why comment here to troll?? An erupting volcano is better than a troll.

Regarding your question: I needed to read and watch a LOT of youtube videos that explained what's going on.  The thing with the appliers after the new mesh bodies was, and still is, difficult to understand and a scam, the same as with the the heads... you buy the skin applier and need to buy the applier for the body, because the skin applier is just for the head.. and not every head.   THAT IS A SCAM.  I refuse to buy extra appliers.. In the past, the classic skins were for the whole body. 

Things are super super expensive.  I don't have a credit card or dollars..

I play Skyrim.  That game, along with MANY others have Nexus Mods, a website were modders uploads mods: mods would be full avatars, bodies, full set of clothes, animations, skins, hairs... anything you imagine!! AND FOR FREE!! They work as much as anybody in SL, and they do it FOR FREE.  I have like 300 mods in Skyrim.  When you get to know another community, your eyes widen and see things with other light.

Regarding the knowledge curve, a friend of a friend just started to play SL, and he didn't understand a thing!  The tutorial at the begining didn't explain much.  It is not user friendly.  You have to waste hours on end to grasp stuff.  He wanted to meet people, have sex.. but, yes, i think nobody would have wanted him with the system avatar.. It is simple to say: "Stay with the system avatar!" while you will be looking like a time voyager from 2010.  It wont happen.  Don't ask from other what you woldn't do in their place.

Thank you Genus Project for the free head!, while in Nexus Mods people are giving away everything for free, in SL people are giving each other DMCA complaints.  I hope everything resolve for the best.

Thank you for the Classic Mesh Body by The Shops! (i wish the back would be more straight, natural looking.  Not fan of big butts, but appreciate the free bento BOM body)

Thank you for every merchant that givew away stuff for free, specially for the free Classic Mesh Body.

Thank you for BOM (bakes on mesh) because now i can use my old skins!! yes! i wish old skins came back!/

Regarding the inventory mess, it is true. 

In the inventory i go Appearence/edit outfit once i have the right one that i like.  And i save it giving it a name that can identify it.  But if you move stuff out of place, the links would be broken.  Is practical.  I discovered that function not so lomg ago, and i'm in SL since 2008.  I was lucky i met friends and they show me the way around.../ but they are gone now.

Regarding lag, it's always been a mixture between you PC and your internet.  Your PC always needed to be a good one.  I always buy them thinking in SL requirements.  At least for me, it is not something from 2012.  It always been like this.

I think SL always subsisted because people are selling things, and people are buying.  They even have a currency that you can exchange for real money.. no wonder people are avid to charge you.

I'm not in a position to buy lindens, but i worked a lot gaining them in game.  I remember the campers...... but LL decided to take them off the grid... WHY????????  Now if you don't sell anything, be an escort or host, i don't know what can you do, besides eating cristals in linden realms or beign humilliated by the software of the voodosploders, that knows you IP (which is illegal) because if you "click too much" you will be banned from all sploders, using any avatar you have.. and LL cares nothing about it.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Elisaisabel Munro

[Maitimo]

21 minutes ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

I'm not in a position to buy lindens, but i worked a lot gaining them in game.  I remember the campers...... but LL decided to take them off the grid... WHY???????? 

"Camping" for lindens was removed because it was used to "game" (cheat) the traffic system, and that is prohibited. Landowners weren't giving you free money. They were paying you to artificially alter their parcel stats for their benefit.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Maitimo

[Elisaisabel Munro]

2 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

"Camping" for lindens was removed because it was used to "game" (cheat) the traffic system, and that is prohibited.

and what are the sploders doing? It IS the same.  And worst because there is that one that keeps track of every IP.
And what is "cheat"?? What only LL think it is? is it because they want money flowing??  😉

Edited May 1, 2020 by Elisaisabel Munro

[Elisaisabel Munro]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:30 AM, Jordan Whitt said:

Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them a troll. 

If you post something on a forum board, you have to expect a variety responses.  You may gets ones that agree with you, ones that disagree with you, and ones from people like me, who do harmless fun quips that hopefully bring a smile to someone's face but aren't meant to offend. 

And in response to your comment about us "seeming to know all about you"...hello kettle, its pot, you're black!  You are sitting there calling me a loud mouth troll who runs these boards.  I have only actually had the courage to start posting on here recently myself and am in fact an incredibly nice person who is just trying to reach out from my self imposed isolation after one too many heartbreaks.  But it's things like your comments that make me wonder why I even bother.

And for the record, my "stupid one liner" had EVERYTHING to do with your topic.  You wanted 2012 back, I didn't.  

Now if you will excuse me, I shall be getting the "Welcome to being blocked" party organised whilst I await other guests.

stop justifying yourself.  you are a troll. OP just described you exactly. 

[Maitimo]

1 minute ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

And what is "cheat"?? What only LL think it is? is it because they want money flowing??  😉

The definition of "cheat" is in the SL Terms of Service. You know, the thing you claimed to have read, understood and agreed to when creating your account.

In any case it's not you that was cheating, it was the people providing the camping chairs. And yes, the sploders too; I don't know why they weren't removed also. You'd have to ask Linden Lab about that, if you are desperate to know.

And yes, of course Linden Lab want money flowing. They are a for-profit business. If there isn't enough money flowing, they shut the servers down, pull the plug and there will be no more SL.

[Beth Macbain]

24 minutes ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

THAT IS A SCAM

It really isn't.

And a person who disagrees with someone isn't a troll. A person who makes a joke is not a troll. That word is being used way too much these days. People have different opinions. People are witty. People have different definitions of humor. 

Why would anyone think that they're going to come to the official forum for a platform, and crap all over the platform, and be handed a trophy for doing so? OP came flouncing in here with a chip on his shoulder and wanted validation for that chip, then flew off the handle because he didn't get the response he wanted. If you're a grown-ass adult that can't keep their temper in check, don't expect to be treated as anything other than a bratty six year old. 

[Elisaisabel Munro]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:09 AM, FairreLilette said:

It did run better.  We could have 40 to 50 human avatar events and not crash except once in a while.  It does run pretty crappy today *if* you want to go to busy places.   I can't hardly run my own human avatar if there are other avatars around.     

So many agree with you on certain things but there are things that have improved as well...so there are varying opinions.    

The avatars of today are okay although for the female skins, I think a bit too air-brushed compared to the male skins which look more realistic and detailed, imo.   The mesh avatars sometimes look like cool robots to me...they are kind of cool.   But, we all have opinions.  

LL is moving SL to cloud servers currently.  Some have said it will run better; some have said it will run worse.  I am hoping it runs a little better for me.

Threads have a life of their own because the internet is a network and runs on a network of ideas and information as well as a topic, so threads can take twists and turns.  

I agree with the air-brushed skins.. they look like dolls, and some of them cost a LOT.
I don't see any changes in events were there are a lot of avies, except with the fact that MANY of them appeared naked for a long time.  I have to see naked women that "forgot" to use the alphas provided by the hud.  That changed alright!

Threads have a life of their own, but punish OP for wanting the thread to be true is silly and trollish, and of course, easy, because a lot of commenters are ganging on him/her. 

The topic needs to be true, because in nowhere was meant to be funny.  It could help newcomers, people who returned, and actually give help.  Trolls are trolls, and they mask themselves behind a screen in anonimity.   Trolls offer neither ideas nor information.

[Elisaisabel Munro]

29 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

It really isn't.

And a person who disagrees with someone isn't a troll. A person who makes a joke is not a troll. That word is being used way too much these days. People have different opinions. People are witty. People have different definitions of humor. 

Why would anyone think that they're going to come to the official forum for a platform, and crap all over the platform, and be handed a trophy for doing so? OP came flouncing in here with a chip on his shoulder and wanted validation for that chip, then flew off the handle because he didn't get the response he wanted. If you're a grown-ass adult that can't keep their temper in check, don't expect to be treated as anything other than a bratty six year old. 

I could give the same advice to trolls: if you can't respond to a question, don't respond laughing or lashing to the OP.  I think the 6yo are the ones that can't read and start to laugh like pubescents, or 6yo. 
No info, no answers, just silly "jokes".

You don't agree with what OP said? just clarify it with a normal answer.  Or do your own funny post. Behind a screen a lot of people forgot that there is actually other people.  Another one says that he is shocked or something to be blocked because of what he commented.. yes, why not! if people can block in internet, why not! keep trolls away.. we mostly can't do that IRL!

[Theresa Tennyson]

29 minutes ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

I could give the same advice to trolls: if you can't respond to a question, don't respond laughing or lashing to the OP.  I think the 6yo are the ones that can't read and start to laugh like pubescents, or 6yo. 

In this thread, what question was asked in the original post? There literally wasn't a single "?" in it.

[Seicher Rae]

2 hours ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

Yes, this forum has a lot ot trolls... and they don't care about you or anybody.  I percieved your post more as a need for advice, to see if people agree with you or not and why, and not ""funny"" stuff and people laughing when you want serious replies.  If they think it is "set in stone" then, move along! why comment here to troll?? An erupting volcano is better than a troll.

And you've used the term "troll" many times in following comments. In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya

Someone making a light-hearted comment to a "serious" thread is not "trolling." It just... isn't. And as I understand the original comment, it was a joke but it was also serious and on topic--just not the reply the OP wanted/demanded. Hey, the OP is entitled to say "not the response I was looking for" but if s/he does it rudely it isn't trolling for someone to respond back with "you are rude and here's why I say that." That's discussion. That's give and take. That's part of a public Forum. If you don't want your comments commented upon by the general public, then a public Forum is not the place to make them!

If you don't like the way people respond, you have shown that you can respond the way you want to. I don't recall LL TOS saying "there is only one true way" to comment in its Forums (other than to proscribe against profanity, etc.). 

ETA: It also just isn't very bright to come into a Forum, an internet community, and have no idea how it works, what its dynamics are, and then have a hissy fit because it acts like it always does... with a variety of types of answers as this particular Forum does. Again, if you don't like that sort of community then why the eff are you posting in it? It is very arrogant to think everyone in a community will immediately conform to a single person's unstated rules.

The OP came out swinging, to a benign remark, and continued to act like a rude, petulant child. His behavior stifled the very discussion he wanted, and his behavior took it off topic to focus on his rude behavior. The OP's snotty comments do come under the common definition of trolling as: Someone who deliberately causes arguments and disruptions by posting inflammatory comments in an online community.

Just because you don't like someone's remark, or don't agree with them, doesn't make it trolling. Trolling and being a d1ck about it does.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Parhelion Palou]

2 hours ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

<snip>

Regarding your question: I needed to read and watch a LOT of youtube videos that explained what's going on.  The thing with the appliers after the new mesh bodies was, and still is, difficult to understand and a scam, the same as with the the heads... you buy the skin applier and need to buy the applier for the body, because the skin applier is just for the head.. and not every head.   THAT IS A SCAM.  I refuse to buy extra appliers.. In the past, the classic skins were for the whole body. 

It's not a scam. Other than the Omega system, which mostly works with bodies and heads that support it, there's no commonality between different makers. If a skin maker made an applier that worked for a full avatar it would have to be for a specified head and specified body. When you consider all the possible combinations the skin maker would have to create thousands of appliers for each skin. A head applier is designed for a particular head because heads from different makers are done differently. The applier won't work right with each. This has nothing to do with Linden Lab. Like most of SL's content, it was all done by residents. Yes, BOM does help matters.

<snip>

Regarding the knowledge curve, a friend of a friend just started to play SL, and he didn't understand a thing!  The tutorial at the begining didn't explain much.  It is not user friendly.  You have to waste hours on end to grasp stuff.  He wanted to meet people, have sex.. but, yes, i think nobody would have wanted him with the system avatar.. It is simple to say: "Stay with the system avatar!" while you will be looking like a time voyager from 2010.  It wont happen.  Don't ask from other what you woldn't do in their place.

The tutorials at the beginning teach you to do the basic things you'll need to get around in SL. Mesh avatars were created by residents and are all done differently. It would be impossible to do a tutorial on them that wouldn't scare them out of SL. Choose a starter avatar, change its clothing (there's some in the inventory's library), and hang out awhile before spending a lot of money on a mesh body and head. A newbie wandering around asking for sex isn't going to get far anyway.

<snip>

I'm not in a position to buy lindens, but i worked a lot gaining them in game.  I remember the campers...... but LL decided to take them off the grid... WHY????????  Now if you don't sell anything, be an escort or host, i don't know what can you do, besides eating cristals in linden realms or beign humilliated by the software of the voodosploders, that knows you IP (which is illegal) because if you "click too much" you will be banned from all sploders, using any avatar you have.. and LL cares nothing about it.

Linden Lab didn't take the campers off the grid. The people who owned them did. LL changed the algorithm it used to calculate traffic. The campers didn't help the land owners after the algorithm was in place, so they ditched the campers. If the sploders are within the Terms of Service, Linden Lab won't do anything about them. That's expected.

 

 

[FairreLilette]

14 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think I've mentioned before an occasion a month or so ago when I sent a friend a picture of his house, taken using ultra graphics settings (ALM, AO, and all the goodies), and he was amazed: he literally exclaimed "Wow!" and explained that he'd never seen his house look like that . . . because he doesn't use ALM, AO, etc. And he still doesn't: it's not his priority. I don't think he's singular in that regard.

Just an FYI, not really to Scylla's example.  I can use ultra graphics plus setting my pixels way up for photography or still shots.  I cannot, however, use ultra for any thing other than still shots.  For those who think they cannot use ultra nor advanced lighting...you very may well be able to for still photography only.  You will need to turn those features down for "clubbing" or busy places, however.   But, try ALM and Ultra for your photography people cause it's gorgeous!  You can fine tune your lighting under World > Environment and then choose from all sorts of lightings in the sub menu or use the quickie thing on the bottom (the thing next to the AO icon on Firestorm) for quick lighting adjustments.  I forgot what it's called but learn the tools you have available here to optimize your experience.  We are all always learning some new tools or tricks for better visuals or less lag on a continual basis with SL.  

My best advice for less lag is to set your graphics at MID and set your LOD to about 2.5 if you have an average computer like me.  With your LOD down in to 2 to 3 range (which is what most mesh is), your FPS will shoot up instantly.   This advice is for clubbing or busy places like events.  In your own SL home, you can probably leave the LOD at 4 with no problem.  

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by FairreLilette

[AyelaNewLife]

This is your daily reminder that Sturgeon's Law applies to opinions too.

Edited May 1, 2020 by AyelaNewLife
I did typo

[Rudegerus Osterham]

I think SL was a heck of a lot more complicated back in the day for a lot of things. In no particular order:

• Men needing shirts that were technically jackets so you didn't look like you messed up the laundry.
• Almost everything needed you to go to a sandbox, drag the thing to the ground, and then copy to inventory. Now I don't need to do that all that much.
• You didn't have outfits so inventory management was even messier.

I am not sure really that dealing with mesh is harder than getting the old layered clothing/prim thing going. When I was learning SL back in 2008, my head exploded trying to sort this out.

[Seicher Rae]

5 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

This is your daily reminder that Sturgeon's Law applies to opinions too.

I had to look this one up.

Thank gawd I'm always, always, always in the other 10%. 😄

 

[Ardy Lay]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

My best advice for less lag is to set your graphics at MID and set your LOD to about 2.5 if you have an average computer like me.  With your LOD down in to 2 to 3 range (which is what most mesh is), your FPS will shoot up instantly.   This advice is for clubbing or busy places like events.  In your own SL home, you can probably leave the LOD at 4 with no problem.  

 

I forgot which Linden told me this, but, I looked in the SL Viewer source at the time and they were correct.  RenderVolumeLOD is clamped at 2.0 in the render code.

"But Firestorm... <MUTE>"

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Rudegerus Osterham]

Speaking of graphics. I have a variety of graphics presets in Firestorm depending on where I'm going, and adjust accordingly. 

[Ardy Lay]

3 hours ago, Rudegerus Osterham said:

Speaking of graphics. I have a variety of graphics presets in Firestorm depending on where I'm going, and adjust accordingly. 

I have some presets I use in Second Life Viewer too.  HANDY STUFF.

[Galilla Sinatra]

OH sorry man for not standing still waiting for you to come back from 2012.  

[anonymousrailwaybingo]

I'd rather you didn't "quote" any of the obvious troll-posts, because I've cleared this topic-chain for myself by blocking/ignoring troll-posts. 

Now I feel forced to reply to a quote that I didn't want to see.

Anyway, this is actually a pretty relevant fact.

Some people clearly misinterpreted that I want to go back to year 2012. I don't. If you read carefully, I said I wanted a magic wand and take the game back to 2012. Not to turn back the time and actually go back to 2012. There's a big difference.

So in that light, the first response was off topic. 

I came here to talk about how SL was in 2012 comparing to now. Not about someone's personal dating situation in 2012. If you want to talk about the actual year 2012, why don't you make your own thread.

Edited May 2, 2020 by anonymousrailwaybingo

[Blaise Glendevon]

28 minutes ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

I'd rather you didn't "quote" any of the obvious troll-posts, because I've cleared this topic-chain for myself by blocking/ignoring troll-posts. 

Now I feel forced to reply to a quote that I didn't want to see.

Anyway, this is actually a pretty relevant fact.

Some people clearly misinterpreted that I want to go back to year 2012. I don't. If you read carefully, I said I wanted a magic wand and take the game back to 2012. Not to turn back the time and actually go back to 2012. There's a big difference.

So in that light, the first response was off topic. 

I came here to talk about how SL was in 2012 comparing to now. Not about someone's personal dating situation in 2012. If you want to talk about the actual year 2012, why don't you make your own thread.

When you post in public, you invite comment.

Did I bless your little cotton socks yet?

Bless.