Making things more complicated isn't improvement

[Beth Macbain]

Crap, I missed all the fun. 

... stomps foot ...

I'M supposed to be the Head Bully this month! We drew straws!

... harrumphs and flounces away ... 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I keep that setting super low pretty much all the time anyway. Depending on where I am at and why, I will often still have Firestorm derender anyone that isn't a Friend.  

If only friends are rendered, can you still see IMs and local from others?

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

If only friends are rendered, can you still see IMs and local from others?

Yep.  No impact there.

[Janet Voxel]

13 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

No, no you did not. 

A discussion would require some openness on your side, but your opinion is pretty much set in stone. 2012 SL = good, current SL = bad. You want to complain, thats it. That you lash out because one single comment wasn't completely serious/on topic further underlines this. You can't discuss something, if you have the temper of a soon-to-errupt volcano, but its the perfect mood to complain.

 

[FairreLilette]

7 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Time to drag old the old time machine! These are all builds that were around in 2012 and the graphics settings are also representative for that time period. Probably not the best selection or the best photos but I wasn't going to spend much time on this.

Sorry about the surrounding for these two builds:

 

Oh and of course, a 2012 style avatar:

Gorgeous...just gorgeous, ChinRey!   The home objects like the storage containers have vastly improved into incredible looking real life objects now.  But your avatar is gorgeous; the builds and lighting gorgeous.  The viewers back in 2012 may have had a different ansotrophic filtering or some such "geek" thing I am not aware of so the Classic avatar didn't have such severe sharp angles like it does today.  

To the OP:  Things evolve.  Yes, it's more complicated now but in many ways "better" except I'm still a bit uncertain how to do all BOM things yet but I'm just learning BOM as of a few days ago.  I agree with the poster who said the objects (decor) are amazing now compared to the "home" objects in the above photos and again, many really look "real" and are 1 LI at times even.     

Maybe you will like it...maybe you won't.

But, as far as the first one liner that was in the thread...I thought it was funny.  Sometimes those are just little things that break the ice.  If you are looking for a more computer geek discussion place...you can find it here too.  

Welcome back from me too!

Edited April 28, 2020 by FairreLilette

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

17 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The first time I got to know Second Life was around the year 2012. I did'n't have time to use it much back then, but the thing I remember was this: Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...). 

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds. And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

You are right

[Seicher Rae]

18 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

I kinda hoped for real discussion about the matter, but of course some one has to immediately arrive and ruin the topic with an irrelevant comment. And I thought this was a real forum, not a stupid childish "facebook-like" chat.

The comments like the one above are exactly the things that make this world more complicated. Thanks for clowning on my discussion feed. Seems like a desperate try to confuse the topic into sh*tty irrelevant one liners.

It took me a while to put my thoughts into words and someone has to arrive and sh*t all over it.

Well, I have had serious conversations about the original post with someone who has advanced degrees which cover topics like this, and I was getting ready to spend some time to type out a thoughtful reply, but this knee-jerk histrionics (and follow up snarks) has saved me that time.  I  have no doubt the OP was a tw4twaffle in 2012, too.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[FairreLilette]

10 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is the exact reason that instead of relying on jelly dolls to up my FPS, I'd rather use Firestorm's option to just not render anyone except Friends.  I personally hate seeing a bunch of colored blobs all over the place.

I haven't used this yet...but will you collide into a bunch of invisible avatars? 

Also, this is the drag of SL...it is laggy and the specs are for Classic avatars, really.  However, even look at ChinRey's photos...the one with the slightly seedy looking town...the sign above to the right says something about lag so lag always existed but it was usually more due to internet too jammed although I think I had high speed cable by then in 2012 which made a huge difference in the internet period.  So lag has always been here in some form or other but not like it is today with SL with these behemoth triangle things.  

But, my lag issue is not so easily solved as I have the option of Wifi only at this time.  But, sadly, I have to set my avatar imposters to 0...so I can't render anyone and it's a drag.  I'd have to move from my current residence to get something other than Wifi.  My other option is being my Dinkie avatar where I can render 80+ tinies at one event with no lag.  (Tinies are not human children....we are mostly animals with human characteristic that wear clothes - a Dinkie is a tiny cat that wears clothes and walks upright and has a child-like soul.)

But, to the OP...really...you need a machine better than the recommended specs of antiquity to run the current Second Life unless you want to cancel just about everyone out.  Yes, turning off advanced lighting helps greatly, too...but sometimes it's just a beginning because there most definitely are behemoth triangle objects here, especially the human avatars.   There is a place in the Firestorm viewer to read the triangles of each object.  

But, it really depends...do you want busy places or non busy places.  Me, I like busy places...so I get the lag.  There are some workable things you can do.  I even put my LOD down to around 2.5 for mid graphics at busy places.   Lowering you LOD in the 2ish range can help considerably for the busy places.  My framerate will shoot up at least 15 FPS by lowering my LOD but this is with my avatar imposters at 0.  It probably would not go up near to 15 more FPS if I had a higher avatar imposter setting.

Edited April 29, 2020 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

12 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I haven't used this yet...but will you collide into a bunch of invisible avatars? 

I don't remember, but my guess is Yes I would collide with them if I was moving through them.  I tend to come into events in Fly Hover mode and then immediately fly away from the mob.  If I want to go anyway at the event, I fly there.  The only time I ever walk is when I'm exploring some location and I typically places are empty when I'm exploring.  So the derendered folks still being physically there wouldn't usually cause me any issues.

[Seicher Rae]

PSA: I think the OP still has time to correct the spelling in the title, since s/he wants this to be all serious discussion and all. I believe the OP has 24 hours to make a correction?

[Lindal Kidd]

Nah.  That's too comlicated.

[ChinRey]

4 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

The home objects like the storage containers have vastly improved into incredible looking real life objects now.

The storage containers, yes. They're sculpts and you really need mesh for that. Mesh did exist in 2012 though, it's just that LL never provided useful documentation so very few content creators knew how to use it effectively.

But when it comes to the pillows and the books I'd say they are more realistic than their modern equivalents, they're certainly much closer to what I see in my RL home. The baked textures with heavy AO and exaggerated wear and tear that have been fashionable recently may look great if you like the style but more in a "hand drawn picture" way. I wouldn't use the word "realistic" to describe them at all. Not even my sister's house look like that in real life and I don't know of anybody who is so heavily into shabby chic as her.

That brings me to another point. It's difficult to compare graphics quality from diferent times in SL because taste, style and fashion are just as important as "objective" factors. The content made back in 2012 were by and for people who were almost ten years younger than today. As we grow older, most of us tend to lean more towards soft nostalgia with a toned down color palette and I think we can see that trend very clearly in SL.

 

4 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

The viewers back in 2012 may have had a different ansotrophic filtering or some such "geek" thing I am not aware of so the Classic avatar didn't have such severe sharp angles like it does today.

That picture and all the others were taken today. My time machine wouldn't start so I had to cheat a little bit. They're all of items and with graphics settings that existed in 2012 though so they should illustrate what you would see at the better parts of SL at that time. That is, the outfit I'm wearing may be a year or two later but it's nothing fancy, simple system clothing with a few flexiprims attached. The by far biggest upgrade the SL avatar ever saw, was the introduction of better skins and that happened long before 2012.

Of course, even though I was in a hurry, I did some cherrypicking of items so they're all by builders who are in a different league than the rank and file of SL content creators both today and in 2012. But I wanted to show what was possible back then, not necessarily what you'd usually see. For those interested, the pictures show:

• Castle Fortitude by Hattie Panacek, c. 2008
• Village of Kintyre by Cuge Lacnala, 2011
• Vintage Village by Oriolus Oliva, 2009 or earlier
• Slum City by Arcadia Asylum, 2006 or 2007
• North Keswick sewers by Kaliska Dismantled, 2012 or 2013
• La Farfalla Blu Cafe by Aimee Weber, unknown date but well before 2012, probably before 2007
• Borrowdale bridge by Eric Linden, 2004
• Storage jars, pillows and books by Charlotta Jenkins, before 2013 (and gone forever now - turns out I got to her store to take those pics only hours before it closed for good)

The avatar is an alt I don't use very much so I haven't changed her appearance much since I created the account in 2013.

Edited April 29, 2020 by ChinRey

[Blaise Glendevon]

This is what I looked like in 2012

This is what I look like now.

Not a chance in hell we're going back to those days. 

[anonymousrailwaybingo]

Unfortunately I don't have pictures taken in 2012 so I could proof my point. But no matter how many picture evidence people post, I still stick to my opinion: For me, SL ran smoother in 2012. And in my eyes, the graphics were just fine back then. 

It really doesn't matter if you show me a perfect still picture of today's current avatar, because a still picture doesn't tell the whole truth. It's how the avatars and the whole game environment acts in motion that counts. So if you want to bring me a valid evidence, a video clip would suit better. But then there's the fact that everyone only wants to highlight their "truth" by bringing such videos (or other evidence) that are in line with their own opinion.

In 2012 I had an extremely basic and grappy lap top and SL ran really smoothly in it. That's why I was amazed to discover how slow and laggy it was for me now that I revisited SL. I know my current computer is pretty basic and far from any gamer's pc units, but still I thought it would have ran smoother.

Thank you for all your answers and tips 💗. I hope I'll get to tune my SL so I can at least get some enjoyment out of it 🙂.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by anonymousrailwaybingo

[anonymousrailwaybingo]

6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

 

But, as far as the first one liner that was in the thread...I thought it was funny.  Sometimes those are just little things that break the ice.

But the fact is that in many cases, the first response is quite important. And in this case the first response I got was a lousy one liner. 

Believe me I understand humor and joking. But maybe people could just let some REAL answers come in before they decide to clown around. Then the issue in topic has settled in and there isn't as big a chance for the topic to go off road.

I belive that the first response is important and can sometimes even determine how the conversation goes on.

I did't start this topic so it'd become a thread of stupid one liners. So that's why I was frustrated to get a "joke response" as the first response. I find it arrogant to think your one liner is so damn funny that you just can't resist and need to spit it out - even if it could take the topic in hand to irrelevant directions. 

The truth can be revealed by exploring the motive of a certain comment - in this case the first response (which is pretty important in a conversation). I found the comment was merely arrogant and attention seeking and it had pretty much nothing to do with the topic. So what is the real motive to make such a first comment? I see it as an attempt to take the thread over and turn it to a wrong direction. And for myself, I don't want this world to be run by out-of-focus blabber mouth trolls. There's enough unnecessary noise in the world as it is. I can find my humor and comedy elsewhere when I want, thank you. You people may think I have no sense of humor, but I value quality over quantity.

Some people here use this forum in similar ways as a chat window and just spit quick impulsive one liners that aren't even that funny. If you wanna be a comedian, at least try to be funny.

 Situation awareness is the key.

Edited April 29, 2020 by anonymousrailwaybingo

[Seicher Rae]

11 minutes ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

Situation awareness is the key.

Cognitive dissonance much?

You should have been much more aware of the situation in these forums before you popped in and then pitched a few foul-tempered hissy fits. Your OP/thread was treated like most others, in fact, while you were busy p1ssing and moaning, you were receiving a discussion from some, albeit turning off a lot of people from joining.

It is the height of arrogance with a soupcon of entitlement to believe that you are the sole arbiter of how a thread progresses. Yes, sometimes threads need to be steered back on course but that is not done by being a snot. Concept. And yet, there you are, lecturing seasoned Forumites as to "situational awareness." 

There's a long-standing thread here about "pet peeves." The type of behavior you have exhibited in this thread is a type of behavior often cited by many in that thread.

[Rob Huntsman]

I like how when someone comes to forums and brings a very accurate point.. Game runs like *****. However, instead of agreeing to this issue people rather just laugh at it.

[animats]

10 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

A much better option to either of those two extremes is to lower the "max non-imposter avatars" setting. Imposters look like a low-rez clone of the normal avatar with jagged animations, but they are considerably better than jellydolls to look at - barely distinguishable from normal avatars at a glace. And as you move the camera around, the non-imposters will swap, so you'll always be focusing on full avatars while the crowd takes up fewer resources.

Yes. That feature should be set to a much lower number by default, and tied to the big "Graphic level" slider. Few people know to use it. It's by far the most effective way of dealing with places full of avatars.

[Beth Macbain]

20 minutes ago, Haselden said:

I like how when someone comes to forums and brings a very accurate point.. Game runs like *****. However, instead of agreeing to this issue people rather just laugh at it.

I don't know what "game" you're playing, but SL runs just fine for me. I don't have an issue so why should I agree to it? Or with it? 

[Paul Hexem]

6 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I don't know what "game" you're playing, but SL runs just fine for me. I don't have an issue so why should I agree to it? Or with it? 

Psh. SL runs like hot garbage, who are you kidding?

Doesn't mean this thread has merit, but let's not sit here and pretend like SL is runs as well as... Well, any modern software. Can't multi-thread, can't take advantage of any modern graphics or computing technology, and the code is a hacked together mess.

This is a great troll thread, but let's at least mock the things that deserve mocking and not the stuff that's actually true.

[FairreLilette]

2 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

For me, SL ran smoother in 2012. And in my eyes, the graphics were just fine back then. 

It did run better.  We could have 40 to 50 human avatar events and not crash except once in a while.  It does run pretty crappy today *if* you want to go to busy places.   I can't hardly run my own human avatar if there are other avatars around.     

So many agree with you on certain things but there are things that have improved as well...so there are varying opinions.    

The avatars of today are okay although for the female skins, I think a bit too air-brushed compared to the male skins which look more realistic and detailed, imo.   The mesh avatars sometimes look like cool robots to me...they are kind of cool.   But, we all have opinions.  

LL is moving SL to cloud servers currently.  Some have said it will run better; some have said it will run worse.  I am hoping it runs a little better for me.

Threads have a life of their own because the internet is a network and runs on a network of ideas and information as well as a topic, so threads can take twists and turns.  

Edited April 29, 2020 by FairreLilette

[ChinRey]

5 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

Unfortunately I don't have pictures taken in 2012 so I could proof my point. But no matter how many picture evidence people post, I still stick to my opinion: For me, SL ran smoother in 2012. And in my eyes, the graphics were just fine back then.

I think you misunderstood the purpose of the pictures I posted. I didn't want to tell anybody things were better or worse back then, I just wanted to show newcomers and remind old-timers how SL actually looked back them so each could make up their own mind. As I said, the pictures I posted should be fairly representatve of SL anno 2012 even though they are reconstructions rather than originally taken back then.

My personal opinion is that there hasn't been much changes worth speaking of at all neither for better nor for worse at least not when it comes to software. Well optimized content today is much better than most anything that was available back then but well optimized content is rare and technically there is no reason why it couldn't have been made in 2012, or at least not in 2013. It's jsut that there was no documentation available so it took a few years to figure it out. Others, especially those who are more concerned about avatar appearance than sceneries, may disagree with me and that's fine.

As for performance vs visual quality, the SL viewer is obviously much heavier to run now but we also have more powerful graphics units and those two factors pretty much balance each other out. It's the typical computer red queen's race where any increase in hardware performance is instantly eaten up reduction in software performance. So we have to run as fast as we can to stay in the same spot.

Edited April 29, 2020 by ChinRey

[Bree Giffen]

The first response is important but your response to it is even more important. I’ve seen it happen in a few threads where the OP just responds badly and the thread nosedives.

SL needs to follow Apple’s simplicity in design. They really put a huge amount of thought into every detail. 

[Ashlyn Voir]

I think if SecondLife stayed how it was back in 2012, it wouldn’t appeal to anyone now. When you have other MMOs that are just super pretty and the avatars are really pretty...I guess LL wanted to keep up with those other games. Granted, it runs horribly on my laptop but mine was never meant for games in the first place lmao. 

[Paladin Tyran]

On 4/28/2020 at 6:56 AM, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012.

stop using same computer.  you may need a new one and a better internet too. just thinking

 

18 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

tell me I don't have a sense of humor

not need to tell, you already know that

 

18 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The whole world isn't your stand up stage as you wrongly assume

SL has grown, maybe it's time for you too..