Making things more complicated isn't improvement

[Conifer Dada]

There seems to be a repeating pattern in SL.  You upgrade your computer or get a better internet connection and SL performance improves dramatically.  Then as time passes it deteriorates again.  Same with LL's improvements to Second Life - first you notice the improvement in performance then it reverts to how it was.  Again, when LL introduces new features like mesh, it improves the experience for a while but by the time everybody is wearing billion polygon mesh socks, performance is about as bad as it's ever been if you're in a busy place. 😃

Edited May 13, 2020 by Conifer Dada

[Odaks]

49 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

.....everybody is wearing billion polygon mesh socks,......

I just knew it...... the trend has caught on.... @Alwin Alcott has a lot to answer for!

(Advance apologies to Alwin - no offence meant!)

[Selene Gregoire]

6 hours ago, Odaks said:

I just knew it...... the trend has caught on.... @Alwin Alcott has a lot to answer for!

(Advance apologies to Alwin - no offence meant!)

But... but... he hasn't changed his socks in months! Just look at his forum avatar and those dingy white socks! He needs Clorox!

[Qie Niangao]

17 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

I haven't see this happen.  I asked a few people that have been around longer than I have and they say it happened, once, in 2007.  I have several parcels with system trees in them.  I have expunged one and planted a test plot. 

Oh, sorry no, not system trees, nor individual system plants like all the ones in your test plot: those stay as planted. It's the groundcovers that screw up. See this jira, "Linden grass changes type to single species 'grass tall 1'" (which I should have linked before but was too lazy to track it down).

It's a whole thing for me because I really like these groundcovers for their ability to automatically conform to terrain. So I have an elaborate ritual for rooting out the mutants after a sim restart (thank god for llReturnObjectsByID) and replanting them, but it's an elaborate ritual because scripted replanting only works on group-owned land if the planting script is owned by somebody with the right group Abilities, and only if that person is in the sim at the time. There's more, too; I wrote up the whole sordid tale for the Bay City Post a few years ago.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:56 PM, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

The first time I got to know Second Life was around the year 2012. I did'n't have time to use it much back then, but the thing I remember was this: Second Life used to be much more user friendly and simple. For example, it was a lot easier for a beginner to make your own avatar and find things from different categories (inventories and so on...). 

Now Second Life seems to become an insiders venue where you need lots of "secret" knowledge how to run things smooth. Or you need to read complicated instructions that make sure you'll lose interest and focus within seconds. And you need to have a super computer to run the "game". I'm amazed how slow and lagging SL is comparing to what it was in 2012. And this can't be explained with better content and graphics, because what I remember - the graphics were actually better back then.

The inventory section is a complete mess. For example, you have to pick your clothes pretty much blindfolded from the category. It'd be nice to have a neat wardrobe closet where you could see what you have and choose easily. And most of the time the inventories you've purchased wont work/open. 

I wish I had a magic wand and was able take this game back to where it used to be, in 2012...

I don't recall SL as being less laggy then at all, I was barely able to move in a sea of grey back then. And I don't really think it has a lot to do with the computer or ISP. They come and go and SL persists with issues.

People say "Outfits" is the way to make a wardrobe. Except the big problem with those is that you cannot save a folder in that section -- it resists doing that as it only makes the folders saved while in "appearance" mode. That's annoying when you buy a whole new avatar/outfit especially, or say a scripted avatar animal, and you can't put it in a folder in "Outfits" and then pop it on with "replace entirely" to get rid of the current outfit, which is the easiest way to deal with all the myriad issues of AOs and alphas and God knows what. Instead,  first have to put it on -- but FIRST painstakingly trying to remove everything from the previous outfit. And only then save that new outfit -- persisting and waiting through the lag for "save as". I only get new outfits like once a quarter if that. And each time I do and encounter this annoyance, it deters me from getting something new. I hate picking off all the different alphas to make something work and trying this or that old alpha to make something work if you don't have a mesh body, which I do not want to spend on. I wish you could make alphas on the fly to fit whatever problem you faced at that moment. 

If you have a large inventory as I do (138,000) much of the time you cannot search and get an item from search -- the cursor keeps slipping past it. No amount of double clicking gets it to stop. You have to struggle to find its folders by cursing down through a bunch of folders. 

As for the secret knowledge, I just stumbled upon a conversation I had with a Linden years ago, in complete exasperation, about the camera angle. I was constantly plagued by camera angle problems that made building hard and exploring hard. Turned out there was a setting to fix this. I still get customers who face this issue. But it's not like "here's the top 10 things you need to know" on a card handed out when you first make an account. The Lindens still seem obsessed with building, which most people don't wish to do, and not just having avatar comfort levels.

My own son who was on the teen grid, and credits Second Life with teaching him how to run a business and giving him RL skills he couldn't get in college which he uses in his RL business today, who does all kinds of IT and photography and video work, gets frustrated easily with SL today. It's not as if it's that changed, and certain basic things like group roles haven't changed at all. But some things have changed enough to become frustrating. He helps me with my rentals and each time I seem to have to walk him through things. He'll start a project, put some things out, at first have fun with it and then reach some stall over something incomprehensible and then quit. When I have been sick or have had to travel I pay him to run my rentals and he complains to me about how hard it is. Some skills he seemingly he had learned but they either changed or he forgot. It's hard. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

24 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh, sorry no, not system trees, nor individual system plants like all the ones in your test plot: those stay as planted. It's the groundcovers that screw up. See this jira, "Linden grass changes type to single species 'grass tall 1'" (which I should have linked before but was too lazy to track it down).

It's a whole thing for me because I really like these groundcovers for their ability to automatically conform to terrain. So I have an elaborate ritual for rooting out the mutants after a sim restart (thank god for llReturnObjectsByID) and replanting them, but it's an elaborate ritual because scripted replanting only works on group-owned land if the planting script is owned by somebody with the right group Abilities, and only if that person is in the sim at the time. There's more, too; I wrote up the whole sordid tale for the Bay City Post a few years ago.

I didn't know all that. I started just removing all Linden grass by highlighting in the yellow box and returning because it's all that one type, which puzzled me. And I miss that ability to comform as well. I wish resident creators' grass did that. 

[Ardy Lay]

24 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh, sorry no, not system trees, nor individual system plants like all the ones in your test plot: those stay as planted. It's the groundcovers that screw up. See this jira, "Linden grass changes type to single species 'grass tall 1'" (which I should have linked before but was too lazy to track it down).

It's a whole thing for me because I really like these groundcovers for their ability to automatically conform to terrain. So I have an elaborate ritual for rooting out the mutants after a sim restart (thank god for llReturnObjectsByID) and replanting them, but it's an elaborate ritual because scripted replanting only works on group-owned land if the planting script is owned by somebody with the right group Abilities, and only if that person is in the sim at the time. There's more, too; I wrote up the whole sordid tale for the Bay City Post a few years ago.

Hahaha!  Yea.  I just reproduced that.  I used the build tool to place 15 various grasses on an empty parcel, then used the parcel tools to return them all to me as a coalesced object.  I then dragged that back to the land and got 15 grasses, all the same.

[Ardy Lay]

This grass thing is like 1984 all over again.

[Blaise Glendevon]

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

People say "Outfits" is the way to make a wardrobe. Except the big problem with those is that you cannot save a folder in that section -- it resists doing that as it only makes the folders saved while in "appearance" mode. That's annoying when you buy a whole new avatar/outfit especially, or say a scripted avatar animal, and you can't put it in a folder in "Outfits" and then pop it on with "replace entirely" to get rid of the current outfit, which is the easiest way to deal with all the myriad issues of AOs and alphas and God knows what. Instead,  first have to put it on -- but FIRST painstakingly trying to remove everything from the previous outfit. 

You don't need to make a folder, copy items and make a duplicate that will further clog up your inventory with outfits. You right click a completed outfit and select Wear - replace current outfit. It takes off everything you're wearing and adds all the saved items to your body. 

[Selene Gregoire]

3 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

You don't need to make a folder, copy items and make a duplicate that will further clog up your inventory with outfits. You right click a completed outfit and select Wear - replace current outfit. It takes off everything you're wearing and adds all the saved items to your body. 

I told her the same thing years ago. Other people have told her. She never listens.

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

5 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I told her the same thing years ago. Other people have told her. She never listens.

They might have you blocked because you used female pronouns.  They prefer to go by male pronouns in SL.  They won't see this either; allegedly I'm blocked for being a horrible troll since I asked why they were still here after they made a huge rant about how awful, miserable, pointless, cruel and expensive their SL is.  The listening thing, yeah, that's how it is.  <shrugs>

[Solar Legion]

8 hours ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

They might have you blocked because you used female pronouns.  They prefer to go by male pronouns in SL.  They won't see this either; allegedly I'm blocked for being a horrible troll since I asked why they were still here after they made a huge rant about how awful, miserable, pointless, cruel and expensive their SL is.  The listening thing, yeah, that's how it is.  <shrugs>

Prok does not truly care about that sort of thing at all and if such is ever used against another user it is simply because that gets the most sympathy.

That one ... There's a lot that that one does and says as excuses for their behavior that others simply lap right up. not to mention that any help is often brushed right aside because they're not ever truly looking for any help, just to complain.

[Selene Gregoire]

9 hours ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

They might have you blocked because you used female pronouns.  They prefer to go by male pronouns in SL.  They won't see this either; allegedly I'm blocked for being a horrible troll since I asked why they were still here after they made a huge rant about how awful, miserable, pointless, cruel and expensive their SL is.  The listening thing, yeah, that's how it is.  <shrugs>

Prok has never blocked me. I'm an ex tenant from way, way back (2005) and back then she didn't care or so she told me. She did say that she prefers to be 'he' when logged in on Prok and 'she' when she is logged in on (if I remember correctly) her Elizabeth account, for business reasons. I first met her as Elizabeth so she is 'she' to me. 

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

57 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Prok does not truly care about that sort of thing at all and if such is ever used against another user it is simply because that gets the most sympathy.

That one ... There's a lot that that one does and says as excuses for their behavior that others simply lap right up. not to mention that any help is often brushed right aside because they're not ever truly looking for any help, just to complain.

Oh interesting.  Particularly since they tweeted an unfounded and untrue accusation that I'm transphobic and that my store should be boycotted after I inadvertently used female pronouns knowing that the rl identifies as a woman.  So, just spite and attention seeking?  cool cool   The call for a boycott tweet had no attention and no effect and was a few years ago now.

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

Oh interesting.  Particularly since they tweeted an unfounded and untrue accusation that I'm transphobic and that my store should be boycotted after I inadvertently used female pronouns knowing that the rl identifies as a woman.  So, just spite and attention seeking?  cool cool   The call for a boycott tweet had no attention and no effect and was a few years ago now.

That was gleaned partly from personal experience as well as fairly careful observation.

[Elisaisabel Munro]

On 5/1/2020 at 3:12 PM, Parhelion Palou said:

If a skin maker made an applier that worked for a full avatar it would have to be for a specified head and specified body.

I was saying that they need to stop making appliers, and do the old system skin, you know, the one that you click on it and your whole body is covered with said skin, from head to toes.  If you are wearing BOM head/body or a classic avatar, you can use it.

I say it's a "scam" because BOM is here for like a year now? And most merchants insist on head appliers... And other body appliers... And "the collaborate with each other" so buy my head skin and go to "this other store" to buy the body skin... 

No way I'm going to do that.  That's my choice.. But, if there is BOM here, stop already with the many appliers we need to buy mix and match and drain our wallets and stuff more and more with huds and items in our inventory.

 

On 5/1/2020 at 3:12 PM, Parhelion Palou said:

Choose a starter avatar, change its clothing (there's some in the inventory's library),

I know having it Al in the very beginning is "not fair", but mind you all around SL we see models (most), beautiful avies,  and you will be out of it, because you are wearing a system avie.  I know it because I'm starting doing Spanish tutorials, and people say stuff to me when I'm wearing them.  Plus, in the pre-bento times, some people talked nasty stuff to my avie.  Just so you know, if you aren't a modern day avie, people will bully you... 

On 5/1/2020 at 3:12 PM, Parhelion Palou said:

A newbie wandering around asking for sex isn't going to get far anyway.

Of course! (And without genitals 😅) so, BOM skin is needed.  Less learning curve, less hassle.

On 5/1/2020 at 3:12 PM, Parhelion Palou said:

. LL changed the algorithm it used to calculate traffic. The campers didn't help the land owners after the algorithm was in place, so they ditched the campers

If LL would have ditch the campers, land owners and camping avies would be furious (maybe?) So LL clean their hand because they didn't like the idea of campers (they maybe wanted true interesting places to be high traffic) and they went around and made owners to do it instead... Well played!

 

[Elisaisabel Munro]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:35 PM, FairreLilette said:

If you don't like higher end types of products or can't run them, don't buy them

SL is mostly social.. you can go all system avie up.. but most people won't. And they will be walking around events with everything they got, even particles, sounds, music... You either "show friends only" and your SL experience will be a lonely one, crash your PC, or defender individually each stupid avie that weights too much... And will take your time away.. so your experience will be half derendering avatars, and half going around the sim..

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

26 minutes ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

I was saying that they need to stop making appliers, and do the old system skin, you know, the one that you click on it and your whole body is covered with said skin, from head to toes.  If you are wearing BOM head/body or a classic avatar, you can use it.

Yeah, no, that won't happen.  My mesh bodies and heads all can use BOM, but I prefer appliers.  BOM can be glitchy.  Many skin stores use the Omega system and their appliers do the head and body all in one.

I say it's a "scam" because BOM is here for like a year now? And most merchants insist on head appliers... And other body appliers... And "the collaborate with each other" so buy my head skin and go to "this other store" to buy the body skin... 

Most merchants?  7 Deadly skins, Laq, WOW skins, they all include the BOM skins as well as the appliers.  A lot of mesh head manufacturers like Letutka include base head skins with their head HUDs, and the body skin appliers with Omega can be bought from their preferred skin creator (Glam) for not very many lindens.  Sometimes you'll need to get the Omega relay for your specific body or head, sometimes it's pre-installed.  All of life is learning, isn't it?

The thing is, not all head makers are also skin creators, and not all body makers make heads or skins either, soo...

No way I'm going to do that.  That's my choice.. But, if there is BOM here, stop already with the many appliers we need to buy mix and match and drain our wallets and stuff more and more with huds and items in our inventory.

You do know that you can use any old system skin if your head and body support BOM, right?

I know having it Al in the very beginning is "not fair", but mind you all around SL we see models (most), beautiful avies,  and you will be out of it, because you are wearing a system avie.  I know it because I'm starting doing Spanish tutorials, and people say stuff to me when I'm wearing them.  Plus, in the pre-bento times, some people talked nasty stuff to my avie.  Just so you know, if you aren't a modern day avie, people will bully you... 

It's play pretend dress up dollies - if the plastics are mean to you just TP away someplace else.  Their loss, right?

Of course! (And without genitals 😅) so, BOM skin is needed.  Less learning curve, less hassle.

BOM won't provide your men chums with genitals; that's a whole other discussion

If LL would have ditch the campers, land owners and camping avies would be furious (maybe?) So LL clean their hand because they didn't like the idea of campers (they maybe wanted true interesting places to be high traffic) and they went around and made owners to do it instead... Well played!

 

 

[rasterscan]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:43 AM, Anna Nova said:

 ... Let's wind RL back to 1939....

Could you drop me off at 1977 pleeese ?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, rasterscan said:

Could you drop me off at 1977 pleeese ?

 

[Talligurl]

On April 28, 2020 at 1:05 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

It still is the same!

You ( and nearly all returners/newbs) let yourself suck into the complicated mesh stuff too soon.
Get your hang again, and after that start updating your avi to the newer stuff.

Yes this. I spent a whole year in SL before going to mesh. 

As for needing a super computer I certainly do not have one. I use a cheep laptop, and while there are places I cannot go, there are also places that work just fine. With anything you do, there are things you only can do when you spend more money, but SL like a lot of things can still be enjoyed at a modest budget, it is all a matter of attitude. Do you make the most of what you have and enjoy it, or do you just complain about what you don't have and make yourself miserable. In my experience the ones who are satisfied are satisfied with whatever they have, and the ones who are not, remain unsatisfied and miserable no matter how much they get.

[Selene Gregoire]

6 hours ago, rasterscan said:

Could you drop me off at 1977 pleeese ?

Hey that works. I graduated high school that year. \o/

[Qie Niangao]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:30 PM, Elisaisabel Munro said:

I was saying that they need to stop making appliers, and do the old system skin, you know, the one that you click on it and your whole body is covered with said skin, from head to toes.  If you are wearing BOM head/body or a classic avatar, you can use it.

Kinda. But these mesh heads and (especially) bodies do not use a consistent UV map, at least not correctly. Take a male BOM skin that looks correct on, say, Signature Gianni or Slink or Belleza Jake, and try using it on TMP (or, I guess, Legacy). Check how the skin nipple texture aligns with the mesh nipple bumps. Then try to figure out why the TMP modellers decided the nipple should be halfway to the armpit when the same darned UV map has been used for avatars since the first Ruth walked LindenLand.

Hence even BOM skins have specific versions for different target meshes.

(Don't ask me why big-budget SL creators get away with this kind of stuff.)

[rasterscan]

I wish there were more mesh all in one avatars. That's certainly the way forward to get and keep newcomers. If LL even wants any more that is ? (There's talk of server space being almost at saturation point already.)

Anyway all this hand foot head and body caper is dam tough on a non multi tasking male like me. 

[Blaise Glendevon]

5 minutes ago, rasterscan said:

I wish there were more mesh all in one avatars. That's certainly the way forward to get and keep newcomers. If LL even wants any more that is ? (There's talk of server space being almost at saturation point already.)

Anyway all this hand foot head and body caper is dam tough on a non multi tasking male like me. 

That sounds like a good way to actually have a club full of people who look like clones. I have a cabinet full of heads and three bodies I switch between, depending on my mood. Being restricted to just one head and one body to wear together sounds painfully depressing. That doesn't even take into consideration my furry heads, paws, and parts. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Blaise Glendevon