Making things more complicated isn't improvement

[Seicher Rae]

2 hours ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

This dude just doubles down...

Feeling secure that I am being classed as a troll because Pooky here is a sensitive soul, and I am blocked because I haven't responded in the appropriate manner. Funny, if you go back to an earlier comment, I had planned on writing a very thoughtful, even scholarly (with the help of a scholarly friend), reply. Anyway... just...

Edited May 2, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Bree Giffen]

1. I think your posts are not specific enough and people have to interpret what you are saying.
2. You will need to give us more examples of what you'd like to see.
3. It doesn't even have to refer back to 2012 either.
4. You should number your examples.

[Seicher Rae]

1 minute ago, Bree Giffen said:

1. I think your posts are not specific enough and people have to interpret what you are saying.
2. You will need to give us more examples of what you'd like to see.
3. It doesn't even have to refer back to 2012 either.
4. You should number your examples.

Yes! Yes! That is what is needed! Bulleted list!

As for your item 2, I think that is more like, "Write the responses you want to see and require, as that will simplify things for everyone."

[anonymousrailwaybingo]

24 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

When you post in public, you invite comment.

There's a diffence between a comment and quoting an obvious troll that doesn't need to be given any extra attention.

In which occasion I said not to comment?!

How hard is it for you people to just try to understand what I'm saying and not misinterpreted everything I write and turn things around. People here argue against me with facts that are not even reflecting what I've been trying to say.

Some people seem to come here just to nit pick every little thing  I'm saying and trying to twist the truth (the things I'm actually saying). I didn't come here to debate/argue, but talk about how SL was in 2012 comparing to what it is now.

Edited May 2, 2020 by anonymousrailwaybingo

[anonymousrailwaybingo]

13 minutes ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

 

...once again a computer is doing weird stuff solo....(*this post )

I wonder how to delete a post🙂

(...and now let's just sit back and wait what kinda crap I get for posting this...)

Edited May 2, 2020 by anonymousrailwaybingo

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

There's a diffence between a comment and quoting an obvious troll that doesn't need to be given any extra attention.

I dunno anonymousrailwaybingo if your definition of "troll" is really what happened by the first joke that appeared.  However, you are entitled to your opinion.  And I think your title brings up an interesting point in and of itself...however, there is no way to say 100% regarding all things that making something more complicated doesn't make it better.  My 24 Megapixel Nikon Camera may disagree with my first 2 MP Nikon Camera.  It's a way more complicated camera...but it's worth it because it's like seeing for the first time it's such an incredible camera.  Yet, I still feel you have received many responses who've had input about the OP, but you are fixated on "troll".   This forum functions for information, fun as well as there are suspected troll threads but I couldn't be bothered really.  We don't have much control over people, places and things.  

Read this here regarding the crux of what a troll really is other than perhaps one who says something extremely outrageous - 

ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a term that is applied to several different types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically it refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. 

As for SL back in the olden days...it was simpler in many ways but simpler isn't always better either.  We may get sick of things if they never evolve and just always stay the same.  

As far as wishes go...I have some about SL too as it is difficult for me to run on Wifi (my only choice right now) and I may need new graphics card.   Many objects aren't actually made by LL...most is user created content so the Lindens just let us do our thing kind of like The Wild Wild West.  SL is very unique in that way.  Controlling the content, it appears, isn't something the Lindens wanted to do.  There are many places in SL that are simpler...but that's The Tiny Revolution, a community I belong to that is mostly G to parental guidance rated and just to hang out and enjoy company without pressures of "dating" all the time, and Tinyland is very, very low lag and not complicated.  As far as the mesh avatars, ahhhhhhh...they can be difficult and now with BOM...it's more complicated still...but I didn't have to buy BOM...it was a choice.   There are lots of choices here and there are still many old original builds and old style communities in SL.  I know...I belong to one...The Tiny Revolution.  

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by FairreLilette

[anonymousrailwaybingo]

This forum is way too troll-friendly anyways. I don't understand the point why a blocked person is still allowed to react with emojis. A blocked troll should be blocked totally so she/he isn't able to read or enter your threads/posts at all (and vica versa).

You can see here that the trolls keep coming and keep brainlessly "laughing" at almost every decent post. And it is the same blocked trolls every time.

If you want to trace a troll, just follow the "haha"-emoji on this thread.

Pathetic attention seeking ****s.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by anonymousrailwaybingo

[Paul Hexem]

14 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sure, of course. The issue, Gadget Paul (sorry, it's gonna take time!), is what constitutes "reasonable."

60 FPS? Come on, really?

30 is reasonable, 60 is good, 120+ is best.

If LL took the time and money to work on the software, modern hardware could provide 30+ even in the really bad parts of SL.

[Bree Giffen]

How hard is it for you people to just try to understand what I'm saying and not misinterpreted everything I write and turn things around.
It really IS hard to understand what you are saying.

People here argue against me with facts that are not even reflecting what I've been trying to say.
It's because they didn't understand what you are saying.

Some people seem to come here just to nit pick every little thing I'm saying and trying to twist the truth (the things I'm actually saying).
People are really trying their best to understand you. 

I didn't come here to debate/argue, but talk about how SL was in 2012 comparing to what it is now.
No one really knows what you are thinking about when you refer to SL in 2012. 

I'm not trolling and many other people are not trolling. I've seen many forum questions answered here intelligently. My advice is to focus on a single item that you feel has changed from what it used to be to what it is now. You need to explain exactly how it was in the past and exactly how it is currently. You brought up inventory. How was it simpler in the past? How is it more complicated now? What changed? We are not Linden Lab so we can't say, "OK, we'll fix the inventory." All we can do as residents is tell you how we manage our inventory to make it easier to use.

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:05 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

It still is the same!

You ( and nearly all returners/newbs) let yourself suck into the complicated mesh stuff too soon.
Get your hang again, and after that start updating your avi to the newer stuff.

If "nearly all returners/newbs" make the same error, it isn't their error, but LL's. IMHO, the major reason that SL hasn't attracted more new users that became active, long-term users is the difficulty of learning what one needs to know to both have a nice avatar and operate in SL. There is a LOT to learn, and there is little help. Another barrier is that, now, the cost of a state-of -the-art avatar is significant. When I started in 2007, it cost me around $20 (L$5,000) to buy what I needed for a nice avatar and nice wardrobe, by the standards of the time. Now, a head costs L$5,000. Yes, out avatars are soooooooooo much better now, but the cost of having one that fits in with the cool kids is a barrier for someone who isn't sure if they will like it, or not. One example of things being complicated and there being little help: I have encountered multiple new residents who were frustrated because they didn't understand the difference between mesh and classic avatars.

If I had Ebbe's job, I would prioritize making the new user experience much better than it is.

 

[Seicher Rae]

22 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

How hard is it for you people to just try to understand what I'm saying and not misinterpreted everything I write and turn things around.
It really IS hard to understand what you are saying.

People here argue against me with facts that are not even reflecting what I've been trying to say.
It's because they didn't understand what you are saying.

Some people seem to come here just to nit pick every little thing I'm saying and trying to twist the truth (the things I'm actually saying).
People are really trying their best to understand you. 

I didn't come here to debate/argue, but talk about how SL was in 2012 comparing to what it is now.
No one really knows what you are thinking about when you refer to SL in 2012. 

I'm not trolling and many other people are not trolling. I've seen many forum questions answered here intelligently. My advice is to focus on a single item that you feel has changed from what it used to be to what it is now. You need to explain exactly how it was in the past and exactly how it is currently. You brought up inventory. How was it simpler in the past? How is it more complicated now? What changed? We are not Linden Lab so we can't say, "OK, we'll fix the inventory." All we can do as residents is tell you how we manage our inventory to make it easier to use.

I went back to reread the OP, and there wasn't one question asked. It was a list of generic complaints and then a wish for a magic wand to return to 2012. So, yes, exactly what you say here, Bree. I also reviewed the "serious" responses to the OP and most of them on the first couple of pages didn't get so much as a ♥ response to indicate the OP gave a crap about what was being discussed. Instead there were just a lot of complaints that people aren't participating correctly.

There was the complaint that in 2012 SL was simpler. It was easier to make an avatar. It was easier to use inventory.  Several people have responded to those issues. Apparently not correctly.

There was the complaint that SL is now too complicated, with secret knowledge and that it is hard to read instructions. SL is laggy. SL graphics are not better now. You need a super computer to run SL. Again, all of these have been addressed, but I don't see the OP discussing it, just complaints that he's not getting the discussion he wants.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Solar Legion]

Oh grow the heck up, seriously.

Don't like someone's response? That's lovely - it does not make them a troll, period.

Don't like how this forum handles its ignore function? Go make your own forum. Ignore should - at best - place posts by those you've placed in the list behind a spoiler along with quotes in other user's responses. There is no reason whatsoever to do anything more.

You do not get to control the direction the thread goes - that is up to the moderation team.

Of course, it'd never occur to you that people are laughing at the sheer absurdity of your responses ...

[Solar Legion]

33 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I went back to reread the OP, and there wasn't one question asked. It was a list of generic complaints and then a wish for a magic wand to return to 2012. So, yes, exactly what you say here, Bree. I also reviewed the "serious" responses to the OP and most of them on the first couple of pages didn't get so much as a ♥ response to indicate the OP gave a crap about what was being discussed. Instead there were just a lot of complaints that people aren't participating correctly.

There was the complaint that in 2012 SL was simpler. It was easier to make an avatar. It was easier to use inventory.  Several people have responded to those issues. Apparently not correctly.

There was the complaint that SL is now too complicated, with secret knowledge and that it is hard to read instructions. SL is laggy. SL graphics are not better now. You need a super computer to run SL. Again, all of these have been addressed, but I don't see the OP discussing it, just complaints that he's not getting the discussion he wants.

The OP isn't looking for a discussion, just a bunch of empty minded nodding/agreement.

[Seicher Rae]

11 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

The OP isn't looking for a discussion, just a bunch of empty minded nodding/agreement.

mmhmmm. If we had seven pages of comments all being: 

• Yes! SL was simpler in 2012!
• Yes! It was easier to make an avatar!
• Yes! Inventory was much easier then. (I can't even write that with a straight face.  )
• Yes! SL is too complicated!
• Yes! IKR? You might have to read an instruction! You would never have to read an instruction in 2012!
• Yes! SL is laggy!
• Yes! SL graphics were better in 2012!
• zomg, Yes! How did we miss all of these brilliant and astute conclusions for the last eight years? The OP is AH-MAZE-ING!

If that was what was posted the OP would be a happy camper, extolling our collective virtues. Or not, because apparently discussion = b1tch to that one.

For the record, I agree with some of these assertions and disagree with others.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Seicher Rae]

Coming from a place where I don't think I've ever blocked anyone in this Forum, I can't help but wonder what a thread looks like when at least half of the posters are blocked.

Oh well.

 

[Mollymews]

15 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Coming from a place where I don't think I've ever blocked anyone in this Forum, I can't help but wonder what a thread looks like when at least half of the posters are blocked.

Oh well.

 

probably be mostly filled with posts saying: please to not quote that person because I have them blocked. Followed by: please to not quote the person who posted to not quote that other person because I have the person blocked and not the other person. Followed by another another person who goes: please to not quote anyone ok !  because you all blocked

😸

[Syo Emerald]

This is still going? Oh dear.

What I don't get is: If SL in its 2012 state was the temple of perfection, why doesn't the OP continue his or her journey limited to what was available in 2012? None of the basic functions, that where available back then, have changed. Really, the viewer is the same thing, just with a few more bells attached. But those bells are optional. Don't want mesh? Don't get mesh. Don't want to use Bento and BOM? Then...don't.

Everything could be fine... unless this is really about policing what others do.

[Skell Dagger]

18 hours ago, Elisaisabel Munro said:

 Another one says that he is shocked or something to be blocked because of what he commented.. yes, why not! if people can block in internet, why not! keep trolls away.. we mostly can't do that IRL!

Shocked?

Shocked?

My dear, either you don't understand irony, or the word 'amusing' actually means 'shocking' to you, or... you're deliberately twisting my words from several pages back so that they suit your agenda (because of course people will probably have forgotten exactly what I said by now, so you can paraphrase my words to mean whatever you want them to).

I'm quite sure that you wouldn't deliberately twist my words, though, right? Because that would be trollish behaviour - which is what your post up there ^ accuses me of engaging in when I pointed out to the OP that - as they insisted very rudely to us - yes they are perfectly entitled to their opinion, but so is everyone else, and that is what constitutes a discussion. I also said that since they clearly refused to listen to anyone else's opinion and repeatedly called everyone who disagreed with them "loud mouth trolls" they were not actually interested in discussion, and their post was merely an unbudging complaint.

What part of "it's always amusing to me" in my actual words - quoted correctly below - tells you that I'm shocked?

On 4/28/2020 at 2:46 PM, Skell Dagger said:

Incidentally, it's always amusing to me when - less than two minutes after I post something here that I know the OP is not going to enjoy reading because it doesn't agree with their opinion - I see them stalking my forum profile. If you block everyone who disagrees with you, sweetie, then there will be a lot of echoing in that chamber of yours.

Anyone would think you had a very specific agenda here. Just like the OP.

[FairreLilette]

9 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

What I don't get is: If SL in its 2012 state was the temple of perfection, why doesn't the OP continue his or her journey limited to what was available in 2012? None of the basic functions, that where available back then, have changed. Really, the viewer is the same thing, just with a few more bells attached. But those bells are optional. Don't want mesh? Don't get mesh. Don't want to use Bento and BOM? Then...don't.

You are right!  Plus, I'd like to add there are communities and sims that kind of do live back in 2012 and he can continue "his journey there" in 2012.  The Tiny community is one...it keeps it builds simple and the avatars are way simpler so we can have 80+ tiny events without the lag.  We could probably have 120 tinies without lag, but a sim can only hold about 90 avatars at max or somethin' like that.   So, even living back in 2012 with far less complication is available now as an option.  I know a lot of people don't want to be a tiny animal that walks upright and wears clothes but has a human soul; nor a tiny flower avatar that can dance with the old non-bento dances, for some examples, as Tinyland can be all sorts of avatars.  However, even in Tinyland, human avatars are welcome but to respect us we'd appreciate the human avi wear a lower resource avatar such as the Classic and most do that because most people in SL are very nice people but we don't force anyone to wear a non-mesh avatar.  I'm just sayin' many of the human avi's do wear the old Classic because they are part of The Tiny Revolution which I don't have time to get into what that is.  The ones that wear a human mesh avatar in Tinyland don't even know what Tinyland is nor what the Tiny Revolution is, so they are NOT wearing a mesh avatar on purpose; they are wearing a mesh avatar because they are just visiting and a newbie in Tinyland plus they don't even know what The Tiny Revolution is.  It takes time to learn all things about specific communities in SL.  But, the OP has some problems with trolls and I don't think it is getting anywhere to try to tell him/her he has options which can improve his SL.  But, there are communities now where he/she can live back in 2012 and avoid all the lag and complication but he/she doesn't want to hear it.  So, I give up.  

Edit:  Well, I guess I didn't completely give up BUT the only way I could see an answer to newbies and/or it's too complicated ideology is rate things with a Marketplace filter that says, BEGINNER, INTERMEDIATE, ADVANCED for example, and/or a place to check NEWCOMER FRIENDLY through ADVANCED for another example, but I don't think anyone really would want to do that and so I'm just giving some examples of a kind of filtration system to help newbies.  It's never easy to be a newbie but SL cannot always just accommodate "newbies" because we advance as we live here.  However, when I write instructions...I do my best to try to look at it through a newbie's eyes because I appreciate their dilemma...I've been through it too and I am still a newbie to many things in SL.  It can take work to understand products you can buy in real life also.    

But, these "newbie it's complicated" examples are off topic.  The OP seems to want a magic wand to take him/her back to 2012 regardless of how the title of the thread reads.  Okay, that's cool but you can, for fact, do that in SL now in many respects - be in 2012 again.   

   

Edited May 2, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Selene Gregoire]

On 5/1/2020 at 9:00 PM, anonymousrailwaybingo said:

There's a diffence between a comment and quoting an obvious troll that doesn't need to be given any extra attention.

In which occasion I said not to comment?!

How hard is it for you people to just try to understand what I'm saying and not misinterpreted everything I write and turn things around. People here argue against me with facts that are not even reflecting what I've been trying to say.

Some people seem to come here just to nit pick every little thing  I'm saying and trying to twist the truth (the things I'm actually saying). I didn't come here to debate/argue, but talk about how SL was in 2012 comparing to what it is now.

Wait..wait... this person thinks he/she/they can order other posters to not post? Who died and made you the forum god?

I'll give a C for Creative Effort.

Arrogant troll is arrogant.

[Sukubia Scarmon]

Eh, I just don't take whatever she says serious. I mean, she must be joking when she calls people trolls on here. I mean, if she thinks anyone in this tread is trolling.. bless her little heart and let's hope precious over there  never experiences a real troll.

I'm happy with the current SL and would hate going back to a 2012 build. I'm mainly into avatar customisation, and while you can make very beautiful and creative avatars with just systemlayers and prims, I prefer the smooth forms of mesh. My memory is somewhat foggy, but I do remember SL being laggy back then as well. I personally have never encountered anything I deem complicated. I'm a gamer, can't argue about that, and I don't care for FPS in SL. FPS are important when I'm a spaceninja zooming through an enemy spaceship, or try to heal my mates in a dungeon, but not when I'm standing around looking pretty. Very pretty.
 

[ChinRey]

35 minutes ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

I'm mainly into avatar customisation,

Lots of people are in SL and yes, I can see that fps doesn't matter for them.

But, if static displays of avatars - or scenes for that matter - is all SL is about, it has lost. DAZ owns that market and it does that particular job far better than SL ever will.

[Sukubia Scarmon]

1 minute ago, ChinRey said:

Lots of people are in SL and yes, I can see that fps doesn't matter for them.

But, if static displays of avatars - or scenes for that matter - is all SL is about, it has lost. DAZ owns that market and it does that particular job far better than SL ever will.

I never really took a look into DAZ or anything related, but from the few things I saw, yes, I'd agree. (But the models all gave me uncanny valley. 😧 )
Tho I should also say, I don't disregard FPS completely - I DO move around, after all, but I don't need 60 FPS for that. 
 

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Lots of people are in SL and yes, I can see that fps doesn't matter for them.

But, if static displays of avatars - or scenes for that matter - is all SL is about, it has lost. DAZ owns that market and it does that particular job far better than SL ever will.

OFF TOPIC:  (which means ignore you don't have to answer nor read).  I've noticed with BOM my FPS are up a good deal and my avatar complexity is running very low for a fully dressed human mesh avatar and averages around 35-40K complexity whereas that complexity used to be about 65-70K on average I'd say.  BOM has been a bit difficult for me to learn but I am just learning so it takes time to "adjust" but the complexity is about cut in half.  Not that I put that much credence into complexity...it's the triangles that are really lagging us down me thinks...but ChinRey knows more about that than me.  However, there are ways for us to read the triangles prior to purchase for a demo.  It's in the ADVANCED menu on Firestorm > Render Metadata I think and then click TRIANGLES.  However, you may need to play around with it to find exactly where the triangle feature is  - if I found it myself, others can too.  

However, I'd still say my 24 Megapixel Nikon camera would win the argument that more complicated is better *if* it were in a debate with my 2 Megapixel Nikon camera.  My 24 Megapixel Nikon is like seeing a whole other world I never saw before, and even though more complicated...it's priceless to see these things even the human eye cannot capture in that kind of detail.  My 24 Megapixel makes a picture of a small section of bark from a tree look like a work of art.  

But, to the OP's magic wand and SL...all I was saying is there are sims and communities now that are low lag and less complicated and have simpler builds like those of 2012 and it's right here, right now...no need for a magic wand.  SL is quite "tailor-able".   

Edited May 4, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Ardy Lay]

On 4/30/2020 at 7:23 PM, Qie Niangao said:

Perhaps, but the weirdest problem with system vegetation is that all the grasses and groundcovers turn into the same variety when the region restarts. Don't ask me how that's possible.

I haven't see this happen.  I asked a few people that have been around longer than I have and they say it happened, once, in 2007.  I have several parcels with system trees in them.  I have expunged one and planted a test plot.  We shall see what happens.

And yes, that "Oak" sure looks like a little Maple to me.  Eew.  Bad LOD.  Oh well.  Had to get way out there to take a snapshot.