Tilia takes over

[MBeatrix]

Now all their talk is about keeping SL economy healthy. Well, if you want an healthy economy, don't mess with it.

The truth, however, is that LL is trying to squeeze from everyone as much money as possible. Which isn't wrong, as LL isn't a non-profit organization, it's a company and needs money not only to keep their services running as also to feed their share holders. But please don't take us as idiots with that talk about SL economy. Charging everyone more money will only leaves us with less to spend on the grid's businesses.

It's always funny how some economists do the opposite of what they should do when prescribing more taxes and fees.

Edited July 5, 2019 by MBeatrix
typo correction

[AyelaNewLife]

Edit: hit send too early, and this archaic forum system neither lets you delete your own posts nor multiquote into an edit

Edited July 5, 2019 by AyelaNewLife

[AyelaNewLife]

1 hour ago, Vick Forcella said:

Both. Read back to discover why.

Let's clear up some misconceptions around GDPR;

Legal obligation wherever the organisation is based is grounds to process your information. If US Federal or California State law requires Tilia/Linden Lab to keep hold of any identifying information for any particular customers - which is the case, for anyone receiving a payout - then you do not have a right to be forgotten through GDPR. You of course can refuse to partake in the service offered if you do not wish to provide this information.

The specific case of requiring a copy of identity documents as a condition of concluding a service contract has been directly addressed. Making and keeping copies of proof of identity documents is allowed, just restricted to situations where the data is "adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary to the purposes for which they are processed." That purpose being the satisfaction of US Federal and California State law, so yes asking for a scanned copy of your passport is allowed. This also applies to how long the data is kept; if local law says "keep it forever", GDPR is fine with that.

The idea that these Tilia terms are somehow incompatible with GDPR is factually incorrect, and based on an oversimplistic dumbing down of the law.

[Beth Macbain]

[AyelaNewLife]

1 hour ago, KanryDrago said:

If I put in a GDPR request to them they do not have to comply with it purely because what is the EU going to do?

California has adopted the Uniform Foreign Money Judgments Recognition Act. So yes, they can indeed successfully sue for the value of the fines if you're hiding in the US... it's just a fairly long court process.

(It's not a free-for-all, the US court system won't just sign over any banana republic judgement, but the restrictions aren't at all relevant to a GDPR ruling.)

[Mollymews]

11 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

This also applies to how long the data is kept; if local law says "keep it forever", GDPR is fine with that.

this is a good point

[Scylla Rhiadra]

39 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Let's clear up some misconceptions around GDPR;

Legal obligation wherever the organisation is based is grounds to process your information. If US Federal or California State law requires Tilia/Linden Lab to keep hold of any identifying information for any particular customers - which is the case, for anyone receiving a payout - then you do not have a right to be forgotten through GDPR. You of course can refuse to partake in the service offered if you do not wish to provide this information.

The specific case of requiring a copy of identity documents as a condition of concluding a service contract has been directly addressed. Making and keeping copies of proof of identity documents is allowed, just restricted to situations where the data is "adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary to the purposes for which they are processed." That purpose being the satisfaction of US Federal and California State law, so yes asking for a scanned copy of your passport is allowed. This also applies to how long the data is kept; if local law says "keep it forever", GDPR is fine with that.

The idea that these Tilia terms are somehow incompatible with GDPR is factually incorrect, and based on an oversimplistic dumbing down of the law.

Thank you thank you thank you.

It's not hard to believe that LL has not thought through all of the ramifications of this change -- such as the types of acceptable ID for non-US residents -- but the notion that they are so stupid as to explicitly say that this is GDPR-compliant, and be wrong, is pure paranoia. This is not, after all, the first time LL has had to deal with the GDPR.

[KanryDrago]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Thank you thank you thank you.

It's not hard to believe that LL has not thought through all of the ramifications of this change -- such as the types of acceptable ID for non-US residents -- but the notion that they are so stupid as to explicitly say that this is GDPR-compliant, and be wrong, is pure paranoia. This is not, after all, the first time LL has had to deal with the GDPR.

All GDPR basically says about data collection is you have to be informed what its being collected for and that only information required for that purpose should be collected. For example if you are taking out a mortgage appropriate information might be past pay packets, however asking your shoe size would not be considered information relevant and GDPR would deem it inappropriate. It also says the information should only be retained for the minimum time consonant with the purpose so for example the term of the mortgage and any extra time required by local laws. What it does not say is that the company needs to deal with you if you refuse the information

[Vick Forcella]

58 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Let's clear up some misconceptions around GDPR;

*facepalm*

[AyelaNewLife]

2 minutes ago, Vick Forcella said:

*facepalm*

You've made a lot of posts in this thread; point out the one you're on about.

I skimread what you'd said, and you'd jumped from nonsense about Tilia not registering as a bank (utterly meaningless) to some incorrect assumptions about GDPR; so I corrected those.

[Chic Aeon]

One more time - let's be CRYSTAL CLEAR.

 

From the very first blog post and email on Tilia I have ALWAYS understood that no one would need to submit proof of identification in order to exchange Linden Dollars for US Account Summary Dollars IF the money stayed in Second Life and with the balance being used to pay tier or premium fees.  Originally the official LL's statement was that those wanting to send those US Account dollars to Paypal would need to submit proof of identification documents again even if they had already supplied them in the past. Later this was changed to say that most people would not need to go through the process again (see the answers in the official TILIA FAQ page). 

 

I have NOT been trying to play Pied Piper and get folks to follow me in my PERSONAL CHOICE of not accessing Tilia.  I HAVE definitely encouraged each person to review the TOS and Privacy Statement (the Tilia privacy statement for US residents in the new document) and make their own choices.  I have not mentioned Tilia in my blog; Both Inara and Ryan have done very good jobs alerting folks to the changes and my blog is about fashion and design, not politics (at least not since 2013).  

 

Personally I am happy with the choice I have made but it is ONLY my choice. 

Now I am going off to do something more creative. 

[Elvina Ewing]

I, I, I...

who cares

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

Both Inara and Ryan have done very good jobs alerting folks to the changes

I really like Ryan's ( @Vanity Fair) latest post, Coping with Change. He ends it with this statement:

Perhaps what we all need to do, the next time a change hits us and overturns all our plans, is to pause, take a deep breath, and just embrace it as best we can. Yes, it is difficult. But most times, it’s not the end of the world. Sometimes we just need a little wisdom and a little perspective to make peace with change in all our lives, both virtual and real. At the end of the day, you need to ask yourself: is it worth getting so upset over this?

Edited July 5, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Elvina Ewing said:

I, I, I...

who cares

I think what Chic is saying is that, on this issue, she is speaking from her personal position instead of the more authoritative role we sometimes give to bloggers and teachers -- this is why she keeps using "I".  My impression is that she does not want others to look to her when deciding how to view the Tilia TOS -- she is asking them to decide for themselves.

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[Elvina Ewing]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

she does not want others to look to her when deciding how to view the Tilia TOS

why would anybody look to her when deciding how to view the Tilia TOS? The overly blownup self-importance of some people never ceases to amaze me.

[Blush Bravin]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think what Chic is saying is that, on this issue, she is speaking from her personal position  instead of the more authoritative role we sometimes give to bloggers and teachers -- this is why she keeps using "I".  My impression is that she does not want others to look to her when deciding how to view the Tilia TOS -- she is asking them to decide for themselves.

 

The problem is once you are placed in a role of authority, in this case blogger, you can't just step down from the role. It follows you regardless. I am a retired teacher. Does that mean that since I'm retired that the role doesn't follow me? No, it doesn't. People still give my words added importance regardless. So, having taken on that role in the past means I have an added responsibility to choose my words very carefully.

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Elvina Ewing said:

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

she does not want others to look to her when deciding how to view the Tilia TOS

why would anybody look to her when deciding how to view the Tilia TOS? The overly blownup self-importance of some people never ceases to amaze me.

I don't believe it's overly blownup self-importance, and I myself frequently give her opinion a bit more weight than some others. This is because, as a blogger and teacher, she has attempted to see 'the bigger picture' on many issues -- she has gone into more depth via researching issues and acquiring accurate references. And, she created lovely videos to teach mesh. Basically, her role has often been that of a teacher, and I see nothing wrong with that.

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think what Chic is saying is that, on this issue, she is speaking from her personal position  instead of the more authoritative role we sometimes give to bloggers and teachers -- this is why she keeps using "I".  My impression is that she does not want others to look to her when deciding how to view the Tilia TOS -- she is asking them to decide for themselves.

 

The problem is once you are placed in a role of authority, in this case blogger, you can't just step down from the role. It follows you regardless. I am a retired teacher. Does that mean that since I'm retired that the role doesn't follow me? No, it doesn't. People still give my words added importance regardless. So, having taken on that role in the past means I have an added responsibility to choose my words very carefully.

Well I think that is why Chic is making it clear she is not speaking from that role on this issue.  I trust that residents can sort this out. I don't believe people have to absolutely stick to roles.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[Blush Bravin]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well I think that is why Chic is making it clear she is not speaking from that role on this issue.  I trust that residents can sort this out. I don't believe people have to absolutely stick to roles.

Upon further reflection on this I even question the whole 

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I have NOT been trying to play Pied Piper and get folks to follow me in my PERSONAL CHOICE of not accessing Tilia. 

If a person has no desire to influence others they don't post anything. I know I've posted my question in regards to having to resubmit my info. That post was simply to get information, and that was answered by LL to my satisfaction. Where I've posted otherwise, I have been to trying to curb the panic others are stirring up, and to try and clear up misconceptions. I readily admit that I have a motive in posting. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

If a person has no desire to influence others they don't post anything.

Blush, I'm going to respectfully disagree that this need always be so -- or, at least, that it need be the main or even a conscious reason for posting information or asking questions.

I have posted a fair amount on Tilia, and answered questions about it when I was confident of the answers. But I really have no personal stake here: I have never cashed out from SL, and I am about 99% sure that I never will. I have some questions, and some mild concerns about data security, but even in terms of that Tilia affects me pretty much not at all because LL will never have my SIN (social insurance number for non-Canadians) or passport on file.

I'm not going to claim to being entirely disinterested in relation to the subject of Tilia, but pretty much my only personal motivations here are that I want SL to succeed, and that I hate seeing people who are obviously panicking or unnecessarily angry post things without a reply from LL itself. What I care about, really, I guess, is that people be well-informed and sensible about this, whether they are pro- or anti-.

I think it is possible to want to post information because you want people to make well-informed decisions, rather than because you are trying to sway them? Maybe?

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I have NOT been trying to play Pied Piper and get folks to follow me in my PERSONAL CHOICE of not accessing Tilia. 

If a person has no desire to influence others they don't post anything. I know I've posted my question in regards to having to resubmit my info. That post was simply to get information, and that was answered by LL to my satisfaction. Where I've posted otherwise, I have been to trying to curb the panic others are stirring up, and to try and clear up misconceptions. I readily admit that I have a motive in posting. 

I believe Chic is trying to clear things up within herself regarding her role on this issue and has no secret motive to influence others. 

[Blush Bravin]

38 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Blush, I'm going to respectfully disagree that this need always be so -- or, at least, that it need be the main or even a conscious reason for posting information or asking questions.

I have posted a fair amount on Tilia, and answered questions about it when I was confident of the answers. But I really have no personal stake here: I have never cashed out from SL, and I am about 99% sure that I never will. I have some questions, and some mild concerns about data security, but even in terms of that Tilia affects me pretty much not at all because LL will never have my SIN (social insurance number for non-Canadians) or passport on file.

I'm not going to claim to being entirely disinterested in relation to the subject of Tilia, but pretty much my only personal motivations here are that I want SL to succeed, and that I hate seeing people who are obviously panicking or unnecessarily angry post things without a reply from LL itself. What I care about, really, I guess, is that people be well-informed and sensible about this, whether they are pro- or anti-.

I think it is possible to want to post information because you want people to make well-informed decisions, rather than because you are trying to sway them? Maybe?

I stand corrected. I haven't seen any bias in your posts. You seem to be offering information and not spinning it the way I've seen others do. So, I agree with you.

But .... I think it is possible to want to post information because you want people to make well-informed decisions ... is still influencing.  

Edited July 5, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Blush Bravin]

.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Edit: hit send too early, and this archaic forum system neither lets you delete your own posts nor multiquote into an edit

That's because LL turned the feature that allows us to delete posts OFF. Multiquote works fine.

3 hours ago, Mollymews said:

this is a good point

 

2 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:

I, I, I...

who cares

 

[Alwin Alcott]

perhaps better talk about the subject instead of , she, her, she , her ..
it really start making you all look very bad.

 

( yes i know i'm horribible)