Tilia takes over

[Blush Bravin]

5 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

So if anyone wonders why I don't respond to Blushes comments any longer it is because I don't see them. Feel free to block me if you feel I am incorrect or confusing.  We should ALL be having a pleasant experience here, not fighting. 

Totally surprised by your response. It's a shame when I try to clear up misinformation that may cause others to panic and you take it personally. I was not attaching you. But surely it's your right to block people. I will still be reading your posts and if I continue to see erroneous info I'll comment on it. It's not a personal issue as far as I'm concerned. And likewise, if I post something that's incorrect, I would hope someone would come along and clear it up. I'm not too full of myself to think that I don't make mistakes.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Zeta Vandyke]

11 minutes ago, Vick Forcella said:

Any business that is storing my private information is subject to GDPR. When I am using their services or not. That is law.

FYI, from Dutch law (since thats what concerns me, and probably similar laws are in order all over europe), The Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorist Financing Act is why they are forced by law to ask for certain level of identification.

https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0024282/2019-01-01

https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0024282/2019-01-01#Hoofdstuk1_Paragraaf1.1_Artikel1a

If you want to read it in English, go use google translate, im quite done discussing this part now

And like you say, if they store your information they are subject to GDPR. GDPR does not mean: you are not allowed to store my information. GPDR puts a ruleset on the way they store and protect it once they are actually allowed to do so.

[Vick Forcella]

4 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

If you want to read it in English, go use google translate, im quite done discussing this part now

And like you say, if they store your information they are subject to GDPR. GDPR does not mean: you are not allowed to store my information. GPDR puts a ruleset on the way they store and protect it once they are actually allowed to do so.

I'm Dutch Yay! For the Dutchies!
All I want is that LL rethinks their "scan passport" thing because I think they missed that (and removed posts, in the FAQ thread, that referred that). That's all.

I'm a happy camper

[Elvina Ewing]

19 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0024282/2019-01-01#Hoofdstuk1_Paragraaf1.1_Artikel1a

Case closed.

I am sure if Germans (and other concerned countries) dig a bit deeper, they will find similar laws in their respective countries as well. Maybe LL are not so incompetent after all, and they were not born yesterday either.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Elvina Ewing

[Zeta Vandyke]

9 minutes ago, Vick Forcella said:

All I want is that LL rethinks their "scan passport" thing

But they can not rethink that because they are forced by law to do so. That's they whole point. They can not decide by themselves to not require this level of identification if the law states they have to do so. And they only have to do so when you process your virtual L$ money into real world currency. If you do not do this, you do not have to scan your ID or provide a SSN for them.

[Vick Forcella]

19 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

But they can not rethink that because they are forced by law to do so. That's they whole point. They can not decide by themselves to not require this level of identification if the law states they have to do so. And they only have to do so when you process your virtual L$ money into real world currency. If you do not do this, you do not have to scan your ID or provide a SSN for them.

I have no idea what the us law states. I expect it's something similar as the Dutch law. The point is that the Dutch regulations limit the "scan-document" thing and it gives advice on what is possible. As long as Tilia is not registered as a bank it's not a bank and they should limit their request, and still try to stay within us law.

How? I have no idea. That's up to them. If I knew I'd be wealthy.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

3 hours ago, Ventura Magic said:

Steam, Google and much more - Users are buying games, apps, mods etc., creators made. Well, digital goods.

Yes I'm very well aware since I am a steam partner.

And guess what paperwork I had to send to the steam? You can read all about it in their knowledge base https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/gettingstarted/onboarding but I can tell you that it was more intrusive than Linden Lab.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Kyrah Abattoir

[Larree Quixote]

On 7/2/2019 at 4:29 AM, ChinRey said:

It's not that bad. From what I can see this is only a reorganisation of LL with the money transaction bit split off as a separate entity. As others have pointed out they've already sued the Tilia brand for a while. In other words, we have all reasons to expect that the security and trustwortiness of Tilia is the same as LL's and we already trust them.

(Useless tidbit for those who wonder about the name, Tilia is simply the latin name for Linden.)

Yeah, now that I am over the initial shock I see what they are doing.  I'm sure it will all be fine.

[Larree Quixote]

On 7/1/2019 at 6:49 PM, Evangeline Ling said:

On the upside...

Everyone trying to get a Linden home fire up those auto-refreshes...

I predict a new wave of premature house abandonments 

**please don't throw rocks... goes and hides**

Speaking of those new Linden Homes... I was watching them build the new land months ago.  I would love to get one just to check it out.  But no luck so far.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

So if anyone wonders why I don't respond to Blush's comments any longer it is because I don't see them. Feel free to block me if you feel I am incorrect or confusing.  We should ALL be having a pleasant experience here, not fighting. 

I think it's important that shared information be as accurate as possible, particularly info given by "bloggers", who some might feel have more knowledge than the rest of us. It's not an insult for someone to politely offer a correction. We should indeed be having a pleasant experience, and that includes offering accurate information and gracefully accepting it if someone  points out an error. 

Block who you please, of course, but...wow. 

[Garnet Psaltery]

49 minutes ago, Larree Quixote said:

Speaking of those new Linden Homes... I was watching them build the new land months ago.  I would love to get one just to check it out.  But no luck so far.

Well, they say they're going to be releasing more of them, and more frequently.  I'm waiting for the nice trailer/campers to come out.  I can't remember if there was another style promised.

[Chic Aeon]

3 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I think it's important that shared information be as accurate as possible, particularly info given by "bloggers", who some might feel have more knowledge than the rest of us. It's not an insult for someone to politely offer a correction. We should indeed be having a pleasant experience, and that includes offering accurate information and gracefully accepting it if someone  points out an error. 

Block who you please, of course, but...wow. 

Please note that I have not mentioned Tilia at all on my blog.  I am many things and blogger is no longer at the top of the list :D.   

Thanks for your thoughts. 

[Luna Bliss]

8 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

I'm waiting for the nice trailer/campers to come out.

Tilia will be watching you from the pines...

Edited July 5, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[West Twine]

8 hours ago, Vick Forcella said:

Tilia is not registered as a bank, I checked (see above). They have no business asking and storing this type of information.

Vick is right, they are not a registered bank, they are a financial services company with the SAME "Know your customer" requirements as a bank or any other financial services company in the US.  They are required by law to verify the identity of their customers, and refuse service to customers of questionable history or activity.  They are even required to report suspicious activity by their customers, for example behavior that points toward laundering or some other similar activity.  in fact if I were at the helm, I would be wondering just exactly what Vick is afraid of...  

[Mango Rhapsody]

...

Edited July 4, 2019 by Mango Rhapsody
wrong thread

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

3 hours ago, West Twine said:

 in fact if I were at the helm, I would be wondering just exactly what Vick is afraid of...  

So if someone asks questions because they want things to be in compliance with the laws of their country, they are guilty of something? 🙄

[West Twine]

56 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

So if someone asks questions because they want things to be in compliance with the laws of their country, they are guilty of something? 🙄

If I go to Sweden to do business, I would expect to follow the laws in Sweden.  If one comes to the US, and let's be clear, if you are doing business in Second Life you are doing business in the US, you would expect to follow the laws in the US.  It escapes you that the comment was made tongue in cheek as I have no reason to believe Vick is anything but an completely above board guy.   The bottom line is, Tilia is following US law for a financial service institution and that point has been made numerous times throughout this thread.  There no issue in asking questions but the constant allusion to nefarious activity by Tilia is nothing more than ignorance.  

Edited July 5, 2019 by West Twine

[Beggar Mayo]

11 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

All too true. And it's been that way for over 10 years. That's why I don't expect it will ever change and small businesses will always suffer for it. Just like in real life.

Jaja, this made me think in my new president in Mexico...

[Kyrah Abattoir]

17 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

So if anyone wonders why I don't respond to Blush's comments any longer it is because I don't see them. Feel free to block me if you feel I am incorrect or confusing.  We should ALL be having a pleasant experience here, not fighting.

So people shouldn't correct you when you are wrong?

[Vick Forcella]

10 hours ago, West Twine said:

I would be wondering just exactly what Vick is afraid of...  

Well. Since Tilia is not a registered bank that has to comply to EU privacy laws the fear is a valid question.
With a copy of an ID you could, open a bank account and withdraw credit, You could register a car and use it for bank-robbery, You could address Facebook and claim ownership of my account.
My fear is clearly written out in the documents I have shown.

Identity theft

[AyelaNewLife]

55 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

So people shouldn't correct you when you are wrong?

If you can't see the posts that point out where you're wrong... are you really wrong? 

[AyelaNewLife]

1 hour ago, Vick Forcella said:

Well. Since Tilia is not a registered bank that has to comply to EU privacy laws the fear is a valid question.
With a copy of an ID you could, open a bank account and withdraw credit, You could register a car and use it for bank-robbery, You could address Facebook and claim ownership of my account.
My fear is clearly written out in the documents I have shown.

Identity theft

 

18 hours ago, Vick Forcella said:

Any business that is storing my private information is subject to GDPR. When I am using their services or not. That is law.

Which one is it?

Is Tilia exempt from GDPR because it's not a "registered bank" (whatever that means) in the EU?

Or are their EU customers still covered by GDPR by law?

You can't have it both ways.

[Vick Forcella]

20 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Which one is it?

Both. Read back to discover why.

[KanryDrago]

13 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

 

Which one is it?

Is Tilia exempt from GDPR because it's not a "registered bank" (whatever that means) in the EU?

Or are their EU customers still covered by GDPR by law?

You can't have it both ways.

Speaking as someone from the EU, any company you deal with financially where you may receive money is required by law to "Know your customer" . This includes banks but is not limited to them by any means. Poker sites for example are required to identify you if you cash out. GDPR is in any case an obnoxiously badly written piece of legislation that often makes things worse by its vagueness which is why so many (including companies) misinterpret it.

An example is people from the EU asserting that anyone dealing with eu nationals has to obey it. This is frankly wrong. I deal with a few american companies that have no eu prescence. If I put in a GDPR request to them they do not have to comply with it purely because what is the EU going to do? They have no assets here to seize etc. The reason that companies like the Lab, microsoft, google etc comply is purely because they do have an EU prescence. If they wholly stayed within america for all their offices then they could happily shrug at the EU. Nor would the EU be able to ban them. How exactly are they going to stop me logging onto SL? America did this a decade or more back with poker sites and said american nationals weren't allowed to play on international sites. In the end all they could do was stop american banks from processing payments from those poker sites and many americans carried on happily playing and making alternative arrangements for getting their money off.

I don't take money off SL so as far as I am concerned all the EU can do is huff and splutter

[KanryDrago]

No doubt Vick will come back and say I am wrong so here are some relevant snippets from eu regulations

source

https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/criminal-justice/anti-money-laundering-and-counter-terrorist-financing_en

note the bolded bit, not just banks

It is essential that gatekeepers (banks and other obliged entities) apply measures to prevent money laundering and terrorist financing. 

It provides that obliged entities shall apply customer due diligence requirements when entering into a business relationship (i.e. identify and verify the identity of clients

 

Also from here

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32015R0847

The full traceability of transfers of funds can be a particularly important and valuable tool in the prevention, detection and investigation of money laundering and terrorist financing, as well as in the implementation of restrictive measures, in particular those imposed by Regulations (EC) No 2580/2001, (EC) No 881/2002 and (EU) No 356/2010, and in full compliance with Union regulations implementing such measures. It is therefore appropriate, in order to ensure the transmission of information throughout the payment chain, to provide for a system imposing the obligation on payment service providers to accompany transfers of funds with information on the payer and the payee.

Edited July 5, 2019 by KanryDrago