Lab Gab April 2024 - Comments? Discussion?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

8 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

Perhaps she just means some countries don't have the same documents and systems available as ID that second life would accept.  It could negatively impact them unfairly if we all have to prove who we are.  

oh, never mind then 😁

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

1 hour ago, xDancingStarx said:

Users will not show their ID or face to consume adult content. End of story. They will consume it without age verification on one of the trillion sites that do not require it. The big sites know this and this is why they're acting the way they do (not complying)

Expand  

Will it require showing your ID or face? 

Actually, there are / were porn sites where you had to prove identity to post nudes of yourself! (Pics holding a card with the date, etc. in addition to ID.)

[Love Zhaoying]

Those who drone on, and on, about "taking personal responsibility" should want to be the first in line to verify identity. Don't they want to take personal responsibility?

[Jaylinbridges]

This will mean your Alts will need to prove their birthdate, even if they just have a Basic account with PIO, to even log in?  I never gave every alt the exact same birth date for security reasons, years ago when I made my business alts.  PIO will not be enough now?  Will they require my 12 year alts to prove their RL age?  Do they really think I was under 6 yrs old when I joined SL? 

Edited April 20 by Jaylinbridges

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Maybe everyone is jumping the gun a bit on this?

LL will be well aware of the impact a really strict or robust age verification system would have. I think this will be to a great degree window dressing.

But maybe we should hang on a bit and see what's down the road before lowering lifeboats.

[Skyler Pancake]

Let's be real. LL will talk about doing something. They'll release some half assed "solution."

Then everything else will be ignored and nothing will actually change.

This is why we need a change in leadership with Linden Lab. They are too content with what exists and aren't actually interested or capable of pushing for progress.

[WereBeast Alpha]

I think the age verify is very important but it can also cause issues as well with different countries with laws and regulations. I don't mind showing my ID to prove I am over the age of 18 to a company to have on file. I mainly stick to adult rated regions anyways. 

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Really have to laugh about the mirrors.

Sure, this is the 'right' way to do it, the modern way but mirrors would have been possible back in 2003 if they were just implemented, there have been various 'cheats' used by graphics programmers for a long time that would have provided a suitable result in the SL engine.

The original Playstation and N64 managed to implement mirrors!

 

I can remember going to a sim that hosted all the Money Tree listings (and there were lots) and seeing "mirrors" and they were damned impressive. They apparently took a screenshot of your avatar and superimposed it on in reverse on the mirror prim (it was only prims back then).  No, there wasn't any movement but  that had to bee like 17 years ago or so. 

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I've heard the reverse that it is easier on to download a smaller texture and the viewer multiplies it 4x rather then having to download 1 texture 4x the size. So why you say the opposite? At the very least 2048 sq textures will quadruple the required download.

It is easier (faster) to download a small texture. There ARE however legitimate reasons for 2048 textures. We had them in Sansar long ago and for awhile there were even bigger textures (not my time there). 

If you put ALL the texutures for a small house on ONE 2048 texture plane the server only needs to make ONE trip instead of  -- well it could be 20 depending on how people build.  The real issue in my mind is that folks will just assume that a 2048 texture is BETTER and NEEDED when it is not.  Not a whole lot different than the match head forum post LONG ago that was a 1024 texture (yes really).  

 

So I for one am happy that LL will be charging for the bigger textures as that might have people thinking if they really NEED that big texture. 

[Anna Salyx]

2 hours ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

If we don't have the new shiny fancy textured thing it will look so low quality to the old textured thing that no one will even like you if you use the old thing.

 

From my understanding the new 2k textures are meant primarily for big thing: terrain, buildings, etc.  To this end the system that serves up the final texture to the person viewing them will make a determination on the best resolution to make available via MIP mapping. 

With that understanding* my take is that sure designers can create and upload 2k textures for skin, clothes, accessories, and make up and if the logic says "this object/thing only really needs the 512x texture that's all you'll get.  If that is the case we might never see many of the "ultra-high" resolutions except in special circumstances like "big" things and texture dictionaries.  (and even texture dictionaries might even get auto-scaled.)  So for wearables I don't think it'll have that big of an impact. 

 

*I grants that my understanding might be flawed and and someone with more knowledge on the whole thing will gently correct me.

[Chic Aeon]

In my mind LL already knows that adult verification will not work.  Been there and done that as most of the old-timers remember.  They are trying to talk the talk and placate folks.  IF as it has been said it becomes a LAW, then that's a different story.

Obviously anyone over a certain LL age (I am 16 plus now) is NOT a child. I don't care if I can't go to adult sims however there are plenty of places in adult sims that are NOT adult in any manner or form, so any further rules may hurt those folks. 

 

My only worry is that in their appearance to "look good" The Lab may decide that EVERYONE  needs to prove their age much like they decided EVERYONE needed to accept Tilia even though most folks wouldn't be using it. (We won that battle more or less by the way.).  Hopefully they will see that would be a VERY bad plan --- but I do sometimes wonder at the decisions that are made.  

 

We are close to two months now since the Medium article and time clock is ticking.  This will NOT go away unless we let it. 

 

 

[Jaylinbridges]

26 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

We are close to two months now since the Medium article and time clock is ticking.  This will NOT go away unless we let it. 

It has already gone away.  We will get new rules for the Residents and LL staff, but no results of any investigation. The old rules were not clear enough for even LL staff to understand they could say, so there is no action needed except to tighten up the rules.

Please tilt your head more to the left so our facial recognition software can confirm it is really you trying to log in. 

 

Edited April 20 by Jaylinbridges

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

As pointed out above by @Coffee Pancake this is an interesting quote from the Lindens ...

"Child avatars should not be used to access or be near regions which have (or also have) adult-rated content / activities"

I think none of us have an issue with the section I bolded. But accessing or being near regions with A-rated content? That's every M-rated sim in SL. As others have said, and I'll use. a specific example ... you can't walk into a furniture store like Apple Falls now with/wearing/as a child avatar? Every piece of furniture sold is both PR and A rated. Access or near are awfully vague words. Stick to G-only?

Can't figure out the intent or how to enforce this at all.

(The vaguely child-like avatars will now have to get out of the M-rated clubs with adult furniture now. That'll be a nightmare for owners, if you think the current fear and banning is harsh, it'll get stricter I guess. Or maybe the intent of LL is to open up a heck of a lot more A-rated land to live on, de-populating mainland even more? Who knows.)

This goes back to the founding of Zindra, and the determination of some child avatars to push the envelope and insist that they had the right to enter Zindra and hang out in bars and clubs if they liked, or make a home, without being banned, as long as they did not engage in adult behaviour. Which kind of loses the plot, but it was a symbolic protest -- and it won.

I think if you are sincere and serious about being a child avatar properly, you should NOT be fighting to get into Zindra. So I support a ban on child avatars and child content in adult areas. It works the other way around -- you can't have adult activity in "General". So in "Adult" you should have child avatars and child content. That goes to the crux of the recent scandal: child content on an adult-rated sim, even if you can't prove "indecent" or "*****" activity. 

As my mother always used to tell us, in the Catholic tradition, "Avoid the near occasion of sin."

Don't go to those roadhouses of ill repute where young girls will lose their virtue.

It's not about Apple Falls and having you walk in a store as a child avatar in an M region and a bed is on sale with both "M" and "A" animations. That's edge-casing and hair-splitting. There's all too much of that around this issue that denies common sense. Most merchants if they want sanity in their store do not put out the adult version of furniture so they don't get loads of day-trippers and looky-loos and kids "trying out the animations". Having it on sale is not having it in action.

Meanwhile, a child bed on an adult sim with a mixture of children and adults means that you have the setting where unlawful behaviour will take place. So you eliminate that climate. I think it's more than reasonable.

Every time someone attempts to deal with the ***** problem they encounter a welter of edge-casers saying "But mah anime waifu short avatar who isn't really a child." Please, let's not be children here, literally. The anime and cute cubs industries are built on this blurring of the distinctions deliberately and we shouldn't be forced to endure that game in SL. If you want to do adult things, don't be in a child avatar; if you want to be a child avatar, don't demand a presence on adult sims. The question here is not about "M" but "A"

 

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

Wow none of this sounds good.

If my premium plus alt has to pay for uploads I'm not paying for premium.

Not really keen on verifying my avatar either and i frequent adult sims.  If im not keen on the idea many other people will not even consider it and leave.

Why are we being punished for other peoples wrong doing.

Actually this could be final nail in SL's coffin.  

 

 

 

OMG I'm glad I read this. I was just about to get a second PP account so I didn't have to keep relogging alts to do rentals pictures. MANDATORY 2048??? I can't help thinking that will cause visibility to take a hit. The only reason I have PP is for the uploads. If 2048 is mandatory and costs 10L per, I will cancel it. But is this really confirmed?

[Eowyn Southmoor]

2048 textures sound great for creators who do optimize their content and will combine several individual textures onto the one UV map.

Unfortunately SL is full of creators who wont do that, so expect to see 2048 belt buckle textures coming soon.

Most creators also wont go back and "update" their older products to optimize them for the new 2048 textures either, which means they'll end up just sticking 2048's all over their stuff (or for mod stuff, their customers will do that), or they will leave everything as it is, consigning tons of useful content to the scrap heap because it's suddenly not a fashionable product unless it uses the latest thing 

[Feorie Frimon]

3 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

"LL is looking to improve policies relating to conduct both within the broader Second Life community of users and within the company as well (e.g. how staff interact with the wider community, and policies relating to potential conflicts of interest / the perception of favouritism, in the case of the latter)."

This is the only part I care about.  I want an enforced internal policy regarding how employees use their powers. Residents should not have to compete unfairly against Lindens. Permissions to access certain private  account info like payment info, IMs  etc. should be compartmentalized to certain departments only.  Anytime god powers are used, should be documented. 

100 % this. 

I don't think people realize what a dangerous area this is - especially with age and identity verification. Doxxing is a real thing.

[Coffee Pancake]

25 minutes ago, Feorie Frimon said:

100 % this. 

I don't think people realize what a dangerous area this is - especially with age and identity verification. Doxxing is a real thing.

It's only ever a matter of time before every companies database ends up for sale some place. All it takes is one small slip, one change in policy or procedure, one change in some bit of software so generic no one is checking it twice, and bam .. game over.

Through a combination of skill and luck, we haven't had to endure that. But at some point we will. The only question is how bad is it going to be. They more they have and keep, the more we have to lose.

[sirhc DeSantis]

Is there a 'transcript'? If it ain't in text it ain't worth [redacted].

[ItHadToComeToThis]

I would have thought, given the 2048 textures are four times the size of our current 1024 max upload, that the price would be...

Base: 40

Premium: 20/30

PP: Free/10

Not 50 for base.

[Extrude Ragu]

The 50 seems somewhat like LL is shooting themselves in the foot

A creator who would have previously used  4 x 1024 textures, and thus, 4 draw calls, could consolidate into 1 x 2k texture and this would save LL on storage/bandwith overhead and also reduce graphics load for the end user.

But because it is cheaper to upload 4x1k textures, they might think twice about doing this.

[CaitlinParker]

2048x2048 textures are a double edged sword.  SL, at best, can handle the 1024x1024 textures without much of an issue.  The only way SL can handle the 2048x2048 textures is if they put a whole new engine in that can actually handle it.  They also shot themselves in the foot with this, and making everyone pay more to upload the 2048x2048 textures definitely won't help as creators will have to raise prices on what they make.

That other issue... that one will have to be a wait and see what comes from it as we can only speculate what what they may, or may not, want to do with this one.

[Alwin Alcott]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Maybe everyone is jumping the gun a bit on this?

LL will be well aware of the impact a really strict or robust age verification system would have. I think this will be to a great degree window dressing.

But maybe we should hang on a bit and see what's down the road before lowering lifeboats.

True, but most of us have enough experiences with LL implementations in their system. It't never with a chirurgical precision blade but with a big huge neanderthaler axe. and a month (or two) later abandon it again because it's not working.
The whole thing is caused with specific accusations caused by their own lack of control.( for me the red line in all off it) They should work on their own side. The problem is in their office, not our homes;  lack of control, personal favorism a.s.o. 
For me it looks like it has to be turned on a more or less specific resident group to solve (= hide)  that,
the harder they point to to the residents, the harder the other 3 fingers point to themself.  It will become the newest and biggest witch hunt on SL.
 

[Alwin Alcott]

4 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

 The old rules were not clear enough for even LL staff to understand they could say, so there is no action needed except to tighten up the rules.

the rules are clear enough, just after writing them down the book was closed or left to personal interpretations, by residents and lindens.
Just some thoughts: 

GMA doesn't work .. skip the M it is Adult... make it Adult residential, and the other Adult commercial .. a lot easier.

No Linden makes friends inworld, don't join resident groups and don't disclose their personal accounts.

No high in the business placed Linden involves in inworld activities other as representation, no actual projects or support; use Moles for that.

Inworld presence for support by Moles .. no personal accounts but with the name "Support Mole" "Building Mole" or something like that.
Lindens and Moles aren't our friends but employees from the company that runs Second Life for us. Of course they have to be friendly, but that's something different, we'r their clients/customers. And that should be professionalized ages ago.
 

[Evangeline Arcadia]

6 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

There are all kinds of privacy concerns with that ranging from how personal info is stored/secured, for how long, and how it's used. Age verification may not be quite the same, but there are rumblings about whether or not they want people submitting IDs and/or face scans, so it's possible it goes that way once they figure that part out.

I've completely avoided doing this sort of thing for freelance sites that require it - even for sensible, sane purposes. They can get my social and/or a W-9 form, but I'm not playing the selfie game with these sites. I just don't trust third-parties to keep that info secure. Zero chance would I ever do it to access social media or adult content or Second Life.

This is my biggest concern about sites that require verification. It's a matter of 'when' not 'if' that site gets hacked and users data ends up being sold on the dark web to be used to falsly create/verifiy other kinds of accounts. Depending what sites that's used for that can get pretty *****ty pretty quick for the original user. And they might say they have the most up-to-date controls, practices, policies, protections etc. etc. in place to prevent that happening but it means didly squat, because a lot of hacks happen because of a silly mistake or oversight.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

OMG I'm glad I read this. I was just about to get a second PP account so I didn't have to keep relogging alts to do rentals pictures. MANDATORY 2048??? I can't help thinking that will cause visibility to take a hit. The only reason I have PP is for the uploads. If 2048 is mandatory and costs 10L per, I will cancel it. But is this really confirmed?

It sounded weird to me, so I asked questions about it above. The closest explanation I got for the "is 2048 mandatory?" part went something like:

2048 will be great for mesh => 2048 will become the de facto => woe is me, 2048 will be "mandatory" unless you're not interested in mesh bodies.

..In other words, a "sky is falling exaggeration" assuming it is NOT "actually" mandatory.

It's quite a challenge to read between the lines on the BS predictions. 

Edited April 20 by Love Zhaoying