Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 3 minutes ago, Flower Caerndow said: IF they are involved in adult activities with underage appearing avatars. The above statement is a gross exaggeration of what has been said. You're saying there is a discrepancy between what is being said on the Lab Gab and what people are reporting was the reason for their ban? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: Where it could be problematic is if the owner/manager follows it up with an AR that might then be used by Governance for further action using any of these Bingo! excuses. So any and all AR's for LGBQT's are to likely to result in permanent suspensions. Almost none of those "Bingo!" excuses are actually "AR-able" without context. So, I think you're just being inflammatory. Unless you're not being literal..Like when Coffee said "2k textures will be mandatory!1!!!!1!", and we somehow were supposed to know she wasn't being literal. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: Not the point of the thread though. The discussion is about the new rules and justifications for banning accounts from the platform, not about venue owners kicking certain avatars from their event. Where it could be problematic is if the owner/manager follows it up with an AR that might then be used by Governance for further action using any of these Bingo! excuses. So any and all AR's for LGBQT's are to likely to result in permanent suspensions. Associating p*dophilia with the broader LGBTQ+ community has been a tried and true strategy of homophobes and transphobes since at least the 1970s. The vast majority of child molesters are straight. Let's not feed this kind of deliberate distortion please. Edited April 23 by Scylla Rhiadra 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Almost none of those "Bingo!" excuses are actually "AR-able" without context. So, I think you're just being inflammatory. Unless you're not being literal..Like when Coffee said "2k textures will be mandatory!1!!!!1!", and we somehow were supposed to know she wasn't being literal. I summarized a thread on the Secondlife subreddit. Anyone fitting those categories may wish to be very careful about how they represent inworld if they do not wish to risk their accounts. As the reddit mods point out the thread is just a small representation of threads they have had to hide. Something like 1 in 10. Isn't it only fair to warn those residents of the risk they take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Associating p*dophilia with the broader LGBTQ+ community has been a tried and true strategy of homophobes and transphobes since at least the 1970s. The vast majority of child molesters are straight. Let's not feed this kind of deliberate distortion please. I must have missed something, I didn’t see how she was tying alphabet people with “that” activity, I thought she was giving examples of people outside the range of “normal” that could be banned under the new “stay away from anything adult” rule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Almost none of those "Bingo!" excuses are actually "AR-able" without context. It has been mentioned over and over again on these forums that SL does not have the Governance manpower to properly go through all the AR reports. It does not seem like a stretch that without a significant increase of employees that they are suddenly now able to handle them with their promise to tighten down on that category. Cutting corners and not thoroughly investigating reports would seem the most likely way to get around that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I must have missed something, I didn’t see how she was tying alphabet people with “that” activity, I thought she was giving examples of people outside the range of “normal” that could be banned under the new “stay away from anything adult” rule. There is no connection between a*eplay and the majority of things listed on that bingo card. Arguing that new rules against a*eplay are the thin edge of a wedge that will be used also to attack the LGBTQ+ community (but not apparently cishet sexuality) implies a connection that doesn't exist. It's also utter nonsense; nothing that has been said suggests any of these other things are targets. Edited April 23 by Scylla Rhiadra 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Associating p*dophilia with the broader LGBTQ+ community has been a tried and true strategy of homophobes and transphobes since at least the 1970s. The vast majority of child molesters are straight. Let's not feed this kind of deliberate distortion please. What @BilliJo Aldrin already pointed out. You're surprising me that you are not understanding what I was relating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: There is no connection between a*eplay and the majority of things listed on that bingo card. Arguing that new rules against a*eplay are the thin edge of a wedge that will used also to attack the LGBTQ+ community (but not apparently cishet sexuality) implies a connection that doesn't exist. It's also utter nonsense; nothing that has been said suggests any of these other things are targets. It is utter nonsense that you don't see that bingo card pointing out that those of us who fit some of those categories are not recognized as being a part of the LGBQT+ community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: What @BilliJo Aldrin already pointed out. You're surprising me that you are not understanding what I was relating. I'm not accusing you of consciously promoting an association of lesbian or gay sexuality (or trans identities) with grooming, but it is an implicit assumption when you bundle all of these things together and suggest that a threat to one will lead to the persecution of the others. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: It is utter nonsense that you don't see that bingo card pointing out that those of us who fit some of those categories are not recognized as being a part of the LGBQT+ community They are also part of the straight community. What's your point? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I'm not accusing you of consciously promoting an association of lesbian or gay sexuality (or trans identities) with grooming, but it is an implicit assumption when you bundle all of these things together and suggest that a threat to one will lead to the persecution of the others. The post you were quoting said nothing of grooming, so you're losing me as to what you are actually objecting to here. The threat to one leading to the persecution of others may have a point though. I have mentioned in another post that ridding SL of younger looking avatars may be about removing temptation for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: It is utter nonsense that you don't see that bingo card pointing out that those of us who fit some of those categories are not recognized as being a part of the LGBQT+ community 9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: They are also part of the straight community. Some might be, I don't have statistics of how many of us are one way or the other or as is likely, both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: The post you were quoting said nothing of grooming, so you're losing me as to what you are actually objecting to here. The threat to one leading to the persecution of others may have a point though. I have mentioned in another post that ridding SL of younger looking avatars may be about removing temptation for others. "Grooming" is the slightly coded language that has mostly been used, and is being used, to associate gays and trans people with child abuse. If a club owner who is worried about accusations of a*eplay decides to boot a gay or trans person because he thinks they pose a risk of that accusation being leveled at the club, then he is either being homophobic and transphobic himself, or is worried that LL's Governance team is. There is zero evidence that LL is targeting gay or trans people, so the club owner is either an idiot, or a homophobe. The same premise underlies this bingo card. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Some might be, I don't have statistics of how many of us are one way or the other or as is likely, both. Then why does the bingo card not also include heterosexuality as a possible reason to get banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: "Grooming" is the slightly coded language that has mostly been used, and is being used, to associate gays and trans people with child abuse. I won't disagree (we all have our own perspectives), but instead will say that normally I don't hear "grooming" associated with child abuse, just with "indoctrination". Edited April 23 by Love Zhaoying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: I won't disagree (we all have our own perspectives), but instead say that normally I don't hear "grooming" associated with child abuse, just with "indoctrination". The term "groomer" is particularly associated with anti-trans agitation at the moment, but i can recall it being leveled against gay men (especially) in the 90s, in the context of child abuse. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Not to extend this bit of off-topic discussion, but I fit quite a few of those bingo categories (flat, crossdressing both directions, feminine male, long hair???) and I'm in both the straight and LGBTQ+ communities (y'all can figure that one out I'm not going to explain it), and I'm not seeing any reason whatsoever for anyone in a similar boat to panic. None of us have (nor will we ever have) full context as to why people are receiving bans, but considering Pride/LGBTQ+ was the second community LL chose to highlight and the page is still very much on their homepage, I'm seriously doubting it's simply because they were rocking Maitreya + V-Tech + an evening gown. If that's all it took, I can think of several creators and their very popular in-world shops who would be gone by now. Speaking to my fellow nonconformists and communities - don't panic just yet, mkay? We're right here on the homepage and our page is linked from it: https://secondlife.com/community/lgbtq 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: "Grooming" is the slightly coded language that has mostly been used, and is being used, to associate gays and trans people with child abuse. If a club owner who is worried about accusations of a*eplay decides to boot a gay or trans person because he thinks they pose a risk of that accusation being leveled at the club, then he is either being homophobic and transphobic himself, or is worried that LL's Governance team is. There is zero evidence that LL is targeting gay or trans people, so the club owner is either an idiot, or a homophobe. The same premise underlies this bingo card. My own inworld experience is that groomers or those I would term as such, are often males claiming to be straight though in actual fact will focus anywhere along the spectrum and simply try to coerce one to don the appropriate level they are attracted to. I don't know the motivations of the Club owners and it is not part of this thread other then me to point out maybe they are insecure about their own sexuality and simply ridding the place of anyone that may threaten it by their being attracted. 11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Then why does the bingo card not also include heterosexuality as a possible reason to get banned? I see the Bingo card having at least half there as being predominantly heterosexual activities or lifestyles. You seem to be grasping for something to be upset about? Winter is over and all the snowflakes have been cleaned up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I won't disagree (we all have our own perspectives), but instead will say that normally I don't hear "grooming" associated with child abuse, just with "indoctrination". It's a common word in Psychology when describing the way in which children are approached for abuse. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: My own inworld experience is that groomers or those I would term as such, are often males claiming to be straight though in actual fact will focus anywhere along the spectrum and simply try to coerce one to don the appropriate level they are attracted to. I don't know the motivations of the Club owners and it is not part of this thread other then me to point out maybe they are insecure about their own sexuality and simply ridding the place of anyone that may threaten it by their being attracted. I see the Bingo card having at least half there as being predominantly heterosexual activities or lifestyles. You seem to be grasping for something to be upset about? Winter is over and all the snowflakes have been cleaned up! This is really not complex, Arielle. "Gay/Queer" and trans identities are both named directly on the card. "Straight" and cis identities are not. That exclusion is meaningful. Why do you think the first two are included, and the latter two omitted? In any case, that's enough of this sidebar. You either get it, or you don't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moles Quartz Mole Posted April 23 Moles Share Posted April 23 (edited) Since, despite repeated requests to start a new thread if they want to talk about child avatars, people are using this thread to talk about little else. we're closing it. Edited April 23 by Quartz Mole 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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