Love Zhaoying Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: This was a car in the 1900. Yes, it was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Antonioo Giano said: The "new model" (that could totally fail too) is that you put digital ownership on the blockchain and LL would earn from fees people pay buying/selling their lands. Yay! Blockchain! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Orwar said: Clears throat. Yeah, no - don't. Not here, anyway. DAAAAAAAADDDD!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 5 hours ago, Antonioo Giano said: Probably this has already been discussed, but I think that considering the times where we are on, can be discussed again. My personal opinion is that Fees for SIMs are one of the reasons that are killing (again) Second Life. Mainland is basically more abandoned than used (mostly only those on protected sea/water are taken). Full sims with that huge monthly cost make people struggle to create anything because you have always that sword pending on your head that makes you rush. In this period where new metaverses are coming (but they are way far from Second Life) thanks to the NFTs "fomo" (that is going down already) I think Linden Labs should start to consider going on that way. We see those metaverse talks everywhere, SL is in a way better position than ANY metaverse. I would disagree with making Second Life a speculative crypto-related thing (And I say this working in the sector) but I think it should start to consider ways with NFTs and wallets easy to make for the userbase to start to give "real ownerships" at least for lands and removing the land fees. I get that for them is a way to keep a constant cash flow, but if Second Life dies.. there will be no cash flows and without people making amazing things on their own sims, SL can't last much. I remember back in time when SL was a thing (2008-2009.. around those years) was FULL of stuff to do even if the technology and the graphic weren't at this levels. Now.. is always the same stuff, clubs popping up everywhere and then closing down, and also some big places are starting to cut/close. If to this we add that we are going through a possible recession (in the USA and in Europe) plus the inflation going high.. for sure doesn't help to ask money that in some country are basically a rent. Increasing the price of the SIMs and making a one-time buy for me would be a good solution. What do you think? I think your personal opinion that private sim fees are too high & “killing” SL is just that. An opinion. Not everyone can afford to drive a Mercedes. Some can but opt not to. Others buy something cheaper. Others can’t afford a vehicle at all. Those facts aren’t hurting Mercedes. Same w Linden Lab. Not every customer can afford or nor wants to pay for an entire sim. There are many options, all the way down to many, many folks never spending a dime on the “game” but very active in world all the same. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnabelleApocalypse Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said: As an entertainment platform - which is what this is - SL is a VERY expensive hobby. Yes and no. No doubt it is expensive. But I have a friend who is into Magic: the Gathering. He can spend in a month what I spend in a year on SL. He thinks I am crazy for spending money on virtual land. I think he's crazy for spending money on little cardboard rectangles. We probably both have a point. Seen through the lens of "SL as a platform" - yes very expensive. Seen through the lens of "SL as a hobby" - We are somewhere in the middle. Not cheap but not outrageous either. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) From the way it's looking, Getting a sim is gonna be one of the last things on many peoples minds in the U.S. for a good bit.. There is a storm coming and it's gonna be long and it's gonna be a doozy. I've been watching this guy since the first shutdown back in the start of the pandemic and he's been really reliable.. Edited June 12, 2022 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsian Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I think LL could do a much much better job of marketing what is currently available. They could cast a spotlight on a new and different interesting region or parcel probably ever couple of days, and never run out of new content to feature. But, LL has . . . problems, with marketing. I feel for marketing team, hard to balance opening the flood gates totally on a product that is a work in progress. If (I'll say when) When LL does something to SL so unbelievably incredible that most everyone in the world wants to be part of it I don't think SL would be ready to handle it. I kind of get they are in the process of polishing things. Seems like everything has to be ready before taking on millions and millions of new users. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 44 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: From the way it's looking, Getting a sim is gonna be one of the last things on many peoples minds in the U.S. for a good bit.. There is a storm coming and it's gonna be long and it's gonna be a doozy. Oh, good. I thought you said "boozy", and I'm sober since COVID. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Oh, good. I thought you said "boozy", and I'm sober since COVID. A boozy floozy. That's a doozy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1. People don't have to engage with your argument if they don't want to. If they think your position is foolish and choose to convey that with an emoji, that's their right. 2. If you get upset by someone posting an emoji you don't like, I doubt you can handle someone poking holes in your argument or otherwise making you feel irritated with their response. 3. Technically a region is a 256 m x 256 m square of virtual land in Second Life. People routinely refer to this as a sim, but a sim can be a fraction of a region or multiple regions. A sim in SL refers to a simulated environment. 4. Consistent revenue streams are what keep the servers running and the lights on for Linden Lab. The folks who run SL have said over and over again that the lease of virtual land (server space) is their primary revenue source. This includes the sale of Premium subscriptions, since all Premium subscriptions include the right to "own" 1024 m of mainland. (I'm including "owning" a Linden Home as "owning" mainland, even though it's more like renting a house in a community with strict home owners association rules.) Linden Lab may make more money from people who don't actually "own" mainland or private estates, so assuming they need to encourage more people to buy these is a badly supported assumption. 5. Linden Lab does need better retention of new players. Even the most loyal, diehard users won't live forever and won't have more and more money available to put into this platform. 6. Corporate investment by big companies was tried in the past and failed. It's fair to try to analyze why that failed, but I think it's foolish to believe that's going to save Second Life from irrelevancy now. 7. Second Life is not going to survive for more than another decade or so no matter what fixes can be done to improve concurrency and revenue. It's a fantastic platform built on ground-breaking ideas, but it will require too much duct tape and super glue to keep it going. Eventually I hope there will be a new platform that is built on the ideals of Second Life, state of the art technology, and will deserve the name of Metaverse, but I don't believe Meta or any other platform currently deserves that title. 8. Regarding NFT's, they can be stolen and blockchain servers are a terrible waste of resources. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/technology/nft-opensea-theft-fraud.html https://www.businessinsider.com/seth-green-pays-260000-return-stolen-bored-ape-ethereum-nft-2022-6 https://thevrsoldier.com/top-5-most-popular-methods-hackers-steal-nfts/ 10 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, Paulsian said: I feel for marketing team, hard to balance opening the flood gates totally on a product that is a work in progress. If (I'll say when) When LL does something to SL so unbelievably incredible that most everyone in the world wants to be part of it I don't think SL would be ready to handle it. I kind of get they are in the process of polishing things. Seems like everything has to be ready before taking on millions and millions of new users. I agree. If Linden Lab can polish this rock nicely enough by SL20B (not calling it that other thing spin-doctors try to polish), then they might be better positioned to market it more heavily to the general public. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 8. Regarding NFT's, they can be stolen and blockchain servers are a terrible waste of resources. Sure. If you give your password and seed phrase to someone else, everything can be stolen from your wallet. As you can see from the post you linked https://thevrsoldier.com/top-5-most-popular-methods-hackers-steal-nfts/ where it mention pishing, discord scam link etc... which applies to anything. If you use your wallet to sign a transaction on a fake scam link of course it can be stolen. But that's when you talk about something being countrary in advance without not even considering things, but just talking bad about it not having a clue of what they are. A whole server can be hacked. The blockchain NO, is just impossible. That's the point. Second Life servers no matters how protected they are, if someone wants and putting the required efforts could be totally hacked, the blockchain no, there is no way you can do that even for the strongest team of hackers, they can do it just if someone makes a mistake, but the blockchain itself is impossible to hack. Oh yeah. NFTs are evil, oh yeah NFTs are so bad. Like this, just "because". Let's all laugh about the blockchain, the NFTs and let's stay in our little safe garden judging other people from some posts or laughing at them because they are more open minded and willing to consider the fact that the world can change and evolve. 7. Second Life is not going to survive for more than another decade or so no matter what fixes can be done to improve concurrency and revenue. It's a fantastic platform built on ground-breaking ideas, but it will require too much duct tape and super glue to keep it going. Eventually I hope there will be a new platform that is built on the ideals of Second Life, state of the art technology, and will deserve the name of Metaverse, but I don't believe Meta or any other platform currently deserves that title. Totally agree. With the mentality of the people in SL is just impossible to change. Even if they would try to go towards something new people would probably cry and leave, so yeah. It's impossible. Let's have SL how it is untill it lasts and until the current 50+ years old userbase still manages to stay in front of a pc and whatever. There will be something new in future in other companies. This post just confirmed what was already my initial idea and what is the idea of people "outside" SL about SL. "An old thing from the past". Edited June 12, 2022 by Antonioo Giano 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Antonioo Giano said: This post just confirmed what was already my initial idea and what is the idea of people "outside" SL about SL. "An old thing from the past". I'm afraid that if "the new thing from the future" is the Ponzi scheme that NFTs and crypto have demonstrated themselves to be, and the future the sterile shell game that is Decentraland, then I, and the vast majority of people here, don't want any part of it. There is no point in "saving" SL if that entails destroying what makes it worth saving in the first place. Edited June 13, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra Grrr 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: NFTs are evil, oh yeah NFTs are so bad. Why do you think so? I just think they're a fad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: This post just confirmed what was already my initial idea and what is the idea of people "outside" SL about SL. "An old thing from the past". Is confirmation bias? Asking for a friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: Oh yeah. NFTs are evil, oh yeah NFTs are so bad. Like this, just "because". Let's all laugh about the blockchain, the NFTs and let's stay in our little safe garden judging other people from some posts or laughing at them because they are more open minded and willing to consider the fact that the world can change and evolve. Totally agree. With the mentality of the people in SL is just impossible to change. Even if they would try to go towards something new people would probably cry and leave, so yeah. It's impossible. Let's have SL how it is untill it lasts and until the current 50+ years old userbase still manages to stay in front of a pc and whatever. There will be something new in future in other companies. This post just confirmed what was already my initial idea and what is the idea of people "outside" SL about SL. "An old thing from the past". And this is how you lose people instead of bringing them over to your side. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polenth Yue Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 35 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: Totally agree. With the mentality of the people in SL is just impossible to change. Even if they would try to go towards something new people would probably cry and leave, so yeah. It's impossible. Let's have SL how it is untill it lasts and until the current 50+ years old userbase still manages to stay in front of a pc and whatever. There will be something new in future in other companies. This post just confirmed what was already my initial idea and what is the idea of people "outside" SL about SL. "An old thing from the past". You have the same problem as most people who have grand ideas to fix Second Life. You don't really know how it works now and are still stuck in the past of what it was like when you first joined. So your ideas will either try to fix things that aren't issues, focus on things that might be issues but not the biggest ones, or suggest fixes that won't fix anything. My advice is the same as all the other times this has happened. Get out there. Find things to do in Second Life. Join communities. Then you can join the rest of us pressing for a better new player experience and wanting progress reports on the avatar 2 idea, rather than thinking that NFTs will solve everything for handwaving reasons that you can't quite explain. I've spent a very busy weekend at events and there were other events I couldn't get to because there weren't enough hours in the day. Running out of things to do isn't a problem with Second Life. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said: rather than thinking that NFTs will solve everything for handwaving reasons that you can't quite explain. Yeah. This. The OP has gestured towards the Brave New World of NFTs and blockchain without providing any substantive explanation of how these will contribute to "fixing" SL. I begin to suspect that the point of wanting one-time payment for land here has much less to do with nurturing creativity and new venues to visit, and is a great deal more about facilitating the kind of free-wheeling land speculation we are seeing on platforms like Decentraland. I may of course be wrong, and I am happy to be corrected. But I don't think, increasingly, that this is about improving SL. I think it may be about monetizing it. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 49 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: 8. Regarding NFT's, they can be stolen and blockchain servers are a terrible waste of resources. Sure. If you give your password and seed phrase to someone else, everything can be stolen from your wallet. As you can see from the post you linked https://thevrsoldier.com/top-5-most-popular-methods-hackers-steal-nfts/ where it mention pishing, discord scam link etc... which applies to anything. If you use your wallet to sign a transaction on a fake scam link of course it can be stolen. But that's when you talk about something being countrary in advance without not even considering things, but just talking bad about it not having a clue of what they are. A whole server can be hacked. The blockchain NO, is just impossible. That's the point. Second Life servers no matters how protected they are, if someone wants and putting the required efforts could be totally hacked, the blockchain no, there is no way you can do that even for the strongest team of hackers, they can do it just if someone makes a mistake, but the blockchain itself is impossible to hack. Oh yeah. NFTs are evil, oh yeah NFTs are so bad. Like this, just "because". Let's all laugh about the blockchain, the NFTs and let's stay in our little safe garden judging other people from some posts or laughing at them because they are more open minded and willing to consider the fact that the world can change and evolve. Oh no .. not another cryto bro who knows just enough of the technical details to be a danger to himself and others. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said: Oh no .. not another cryto bro who knows just enough of the technical details to be a danger to himself and others. I don't know, I feel like this NFT thing is a scam. Again I am literally paying really high prices, just to see one painting at an art gallery. That would be like adopting an animal and they only give you the papers, but not the animal you wanted. We definitely need some sort of regulatory board, when it comes to NFTs and Cryptocurrency. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Kobichenko Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said: 6. Corporate investment by big companies was tried in the past and failed. It's fair to try to analyze why that failed, but I think it's foolish to believe that's going to save Second Life from irrelevancy now. Yea, last time I thought to look there was still a region frozen in time dedicated for Duran Duran to give concerts. I think there might have been one. The region has just sat there, gathering digital dust bunnies for a decade & a half now. https://duranduran.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Life There was also as others mentioned, a toedipping of corporate sponsors into SL back then & it didn’t pan out. “ The Second Life online service is fast becoming a three-dimensional test bed for corporate marketers, including Sony BMG Music Entertainment, Sun Microsystems, Nissan, Adidas/Reebok, Toyota and Starwood hotels. https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/19/technology/19virtual.html Ill clue you in on how that turned out (they’re no longer around in world). You’re trying to make solutions to problems that don’t exist. *& by you I mean the OP Edited June 12, 2022 by Pixie Kobichenko 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Every time a thread pops up about land prices, I have to wonder what the justification is for them to be what they are. The cost of a single SL region that's on a shared virtual server is higher than renting an entire dedicated server box from just about anyone, which would be capable of running multiple full regions easily. I've never seen a good explanation for that, other than plain greed. Which is fine, go capitalism, but LL doesn't seem to want to admit it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quistess Alpha Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: The cost of a single SL region that's on a shared virtual server is higher than renting an entire dedicated server box from just about anyone, which would be capable of running multiple full regions easily. I've never seen a good explanation for that, other than plain greed. Which is fine, go capitalism, but LL doesn't seem to want to admit it. TL;DR you're not just buying the tech, you're buying the support as well, and you're paying to maintain unused and public land. Moles, developers and support services need to be paid for somehow. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 And most businesses are in business to make money and not just break even. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 It's almost as if the clones are impartial/don't use the same architecture, thus reducing their overhead ... But no ... It's just gotta be greed, amirite? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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