Fees are too high!(?)

[Sammy Huntsman]

15 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

TL;DR you're not just buying the tech, you're buying the support as well, and you're paying to maintain unused and public land.

Moles, developers and support services need to be paid for somehow.

I was gonna say, its not just paying for that server to host your land. You are also paying for backend maintenance, by actual human beings too. So it is understandable why fees are priced that way. I mean you have maintenance days, when new features are added, when they have to rewind your server back. That takes humans, and that labour costs money. 

[Paul Hexem]

16 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

TL;DR you're not just buying the tech, you're buying the support as well, and you're paying to maintain unused and public land.

Moles, developers and support services need to be paid for somehow.

Which justifies not operating at cost, sure. But those companies that rent said servers have support staff, too. The price difference is still staggeringly large. 

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And most businesses are in business to make money and not just break even.

Which is what I said, yeah. 

12 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

It's almost as if the clones are impartial/don't use the same architecture, thus reducing their overhead ...

But no ... It's just gotta be greed, amirite?

If cloning a virtual server (?) results in reduced overhead, then the price should be cheaper and it is greed, yes. Unless you were addressing someone else that mentioned greed and I missed it.

[shireena1]

[Maryanne Solo]

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, shireena1 said:

I was just thinking of that meme, then seen you had it here already.. Now I must improvise!! \o/

 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Quistess Alpha said:

you're buying the support as well

LL offers support?

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The OP has gestured towards the Brave New World of NFTs and blockchain without providing any substantive explanation of how these will contribute to "fixing" SL.

But..but..MFA already fixed SL!

Oh..oh..BINGO!!

(Can you win if you use the word on the card yourself?)

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

My advice is the same as all the other times this has happened. Get out there. Find things to do in Second Life.

But complaining IS doing something!

[Jules Catlyn]

13 hours ago, Antonioo Giano said:

Well, but having all those abandoned and basically useless lands on mainlands as you said is still a cost for them, and nobody is going to get those lands. So they could even consider to start from there to sell some portion of Mainland regions giving to people buying a one-time price instead of a monthly fee.

Or just turn them off. That is a scenario of doom that should be considered. If the mainland is no longer profitable and the regions lay abandoned. That is a possible scenario.

I rent quite a bit of real estate from major rental companies because the price difference between doing that and renting from LL directly is minimal and i do not risk my account if for some reason i can't pay. 

My SL expenses are paid for by working hard in SL. I cannot afford to bring RL money into Second Life. 

[Antonioo Giano]

10 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

And this is how you lose people instead of bringing them over to your side.

There is no "side". I'm just an open-minded person that is aware that things can change and doesn't matter if I like it or not. But people answering this post, again, confirmed that they don't know what they are talking about. I just know the topic and myself I said that I'm 50-50 about it, so not saying that is going to be for sure like that or that is the future but that IT COULD BE and if it will be I'll not stay there crying because things are changing.
But when you touch topics when people get their ideas about watching some random youtube video or reading random stuff online that's the thing.. Don't even need to answer to those all kinda "bully" style answers. The "bully" can IM me in Second Life if they are able to be that "smart" also in a conversation instead of thinking to be cool posting random stuff to try to make fun of me in a forum where you do "everyone against one" just because the one knows more about you on a topic and you can't accept it.
The bully can keep going as they like giving "ironic" answers and putting laughing emojis on my posts, I just don't mind. I can handle many of you attacking me all the time and in the end we will see who will laugh because I know already that I will not receive any IM, because for all those bullies the strength comes just in "group" when they get other peoples approval. Via IM they would just be silent and don't know what to say.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Antonioo Giano

[Solar Legion]

There is no "bully" - there are however, people who find a few things utterly ridiculous. 

More so when the same things get trotted out in differing variations, some pretending that anyone who has a strong reaction is a troll or a bully or some other variation simply because they've seen it before.

Deal with it. 

You may not like the responses but there is no need to mischaracterize the people or responses you get - that includes responses you get that consist solely of a post react button. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Solar Legion

[Love Zhaoying]

With current inflation, fees seem lower. #FightMe

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

There is no "bully" - there are however, people who find a few things utterly ridiculous. 

Deal with it. 

But..but..people who disagree with me are all bullies!!!1!

[Antonioo Giano]

31 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But..but..people who disagree with me are all bullies!!!1!

You are the top 1. You are writing this childish stuff without giving 0 argumentation to what you write. Do you think it to be funny? I wrote several times that I'm totally fine with people that disagree, just read back if you are able to do, it instead of writing this stuff in this way trying to be the smart and funny one to get some attention. It's pathetic.

[Solar Legion]

Ah yes, going exactly as expected.... 

[Antonioo Giano]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Ah yes, going exactly as expected.... 

Giving some attention also to you.. happy?
As I said I can deal with you all. But you know.. I'm not an old one with nothing to do. I've also a life.

My IMs are open, if some of you is able to give an argumentation to what they say they can try to write me IW. I can't spend all my time to give you some attention to make your day bit more interesting. I did already too much charity with this posts feeding too many trolls.

At the end is always the same circle of people answering all the same posts in the forum. My mistake to open a post like this, was predictable that people aren't able to disagree in a civil way, they have to try to "bully" or try to be the smart-funny one to get some attention in a forum where 10 people write.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Antonioo Giano

[Solar Legion]

That's nice. 

Heard it before. 

Not interested in wasting my time with such nonsense. There is no need whatsoever to waste time sending Instant Messages over a forum post. 

Especially when there is a Private Message system built into the forum. 

Alongside varied controls for pruning what is visible to you. 

[Mollymews]

11 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

I've never seen a good explanation for that, other than plain greed. Which is fine, go capitalism, but LL doesn't seem to want to admit it.

tbf to Linden, Philip Rosedale always said that the subscription model for a beloved product is the way to go if longevity is the goal.  He still says this. Ebbe used to say it as well and backed this up with the expansion of Linden Homes-driven subscriptions

(edit add clarity: Estate tier is also subscription)

Ebbe is also on record as saying SL is a cash cow. Cash cow meaning that SL is a stable and mature product beloved of a stable and mature customer base who have discretionary income higher than the average person (average over the body of all persons with an internet connection)

cash cow, pricing isn't about the cost of providing the product. Cash cow pricing is about pricing the distance between the provision cost and the willingness of a stable mature customer base to spend more on a beloved product even in the face of a similar product on sale/available for a whole lot less

an example of the pricing distance between provision cost and beloved. A can of tomatoes in the RL supermarket where I shop. Watties (a long time beloved brand) $2.30. Supermarket's own brand. $1.49.  Same tomatoes grown in the same market gardens, same can, same canning process, in the same cannery even, different label. People still buy Watties by the shopping trolley load. And the Watties cans are stacked right next to the Own brand cans on the supermarket shelf

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Mollymews
tier clarity

[Love Zhaoying]

54 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said:

You are the top 1. You are writing this childish stuff without giving 0 argumentation to what you write. Do you think it to be funny? I wrote several times that I'm totally fine with people that disagree, just read back if you are able to do, it instead of writing this stuff in this way trying to be the smart and funny one to get some attention. It's pathetic.

The fees are so high, that I sold my private region that I never really used much. Now instead of paying US$$$ /. Month, I've got L$$$$. A different problem; I could "cash in" but no hurry.

Anyway, unless Profit is NOT greater now under AWS than before AWS, yes - fees are too high for private regions.  For everything else are fees too high? Meh.

All bedr nao?

 

[Love Zhaoying]

59 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

That's nice. 

Heard it before. 

Not interested in wasting my time with such nonsense. There is no need whatsoever to waste time sending Instant Messages over a forum post. 

Especially when there is a Private Message system built into the forum. 

Alongside varied controls for pruning what is visible to you. 

ZOMG that's a major pet peeve, like when people don't like your posts and message you "WTF is the matter with you?" about it. Or think because you're supportive of their posts, you actually want to come visit their (failing financially) region and message you about it.  
 

*Edit* Wait, wot? They meant message them in-world? Ain't nobody got time for that.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

an example of the pricing distance between provision cost and beloved. A can of tomatoes in the RL supermarket where I shop. Watties (a long time beloved brand) $2.30. Supermarket's own brand. $1.49.  Same tomatoes grown in the same market gardens, same can, same canning process, in the same cannery even, different label. People still buy Watties by the shopping trolley load. And the Watties cans are stacked right next to the Own brand cans on the supermarket shelf

Your mention of generic (house, in this case) brands gave me a brilliant idea! Limited functionality region at lower cost (but different than homestead, no "primary" standard region required):

- No terraforming 

- Cost tier based on max avatars allowed

- Different tier script maxes

- Different tier object / LI maxes

- Event throttles, etc.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Love Zhaoying
Event not even

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Ah yes, going exactly as expected.... 

My feeling was almost hurt! But being top 1 is sumpin', I guess.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Antonioo Giano said:

You are the top 1. You are writing this childish stuff without giving 0 argumentation to what you write. Do you think it to be funny? I wrote several times that I'm totally fine with people that disagree, just read back if you are able to do, it instead of writing this stuff in this way trying to be the smart and funny one to get some attention. It's pathetic.

Coming here to attack fees and alluding to "web3" as some kind of solution is disingenuous. We would all like to pay lower fees. But that doesn't make the other half of your argument valid.

There is no world in which a blockchain is better than a database, ESPECIALLY for a product such as SL that operates inside a walled garden. This is not because we do not understand what they are, or because we are not capable of demolishing your arguments on purely technical grounds. It's because you're just one more in a long line of crypto bros and frankly it's boring to have the same fights with people who barely understand the technology buzzword soup they are citing as some panacea.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Coming here to attack fees and alluding to "web3" as some kind of solution is disingenuous.

I learned a new word recently, "pretext"!

6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There is no world in which a blockchain is better than a database

Ironically, the more recent forum "blockchain" mentions were in the context of security / MFA. Now that we have MFA, when I see someone suggest "blockchain"..

*edit* Also ironically, I took my crypto profits and GTFO of crypto not long ago. Only about USD$4500 profit total over a few years, but it makes me more an expert than most "crypto bros".

Edited June 13, 2022 by Love Zhaoying
I just can't stop talking! Coffee good mmmm

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Not sure what the point is in you starting a thread where the OP ends with "What do you think?" if you're then going to spend the next 5 pages totally dismissing anything that others have to say, just because they don't happen to agree with you, or point out some errors you've made.

If all you wanted was an echo chamber of like-minded responses, then perhaps you would've been better off prefacing the OP to state clearly that it is actually a rant, and contrary opinions are not welcome