Why does it matter?

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I actually get more attention when I'm in world as a non-human. My little devil and "Spontaneous Moral Decay" particle avatars seem most popular. I think @Ayashe Ninetails is right to think that hair has something to do with it. For most of my 14 years here, I've worn short messy styles and gotten fairly little attention. Those few times I've donned my blonde bombshell hair, I have received compliments.

The thing that's elicited the most IMs over the years is my mention of Dr. Richard Feynman in my profile. That makes me happy.

As for why people behave the way they do, I'll have to fall back on the McMasters Family Motto, which we recited any time someone did something inexplicable...

"People are weird".

The unspoken part of that motto has always been...

"And we are people".

^ This is actually one of my favorite mottos too.  🙂

 

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Ok, well true. If I found that out then you are right. I wouldn't question my sexuality either. I get what you are saying now. It's when people say it shouldn't matter what sex is behind the avatar that I disagree with because for me it does.  

I can understand that it would matter if one were intimately, romantically involved with someone through their avatar. It would likely matter if one were in the middle of pixel sex when a partner suddenly changed the sex of their avatar or voiced, showing they were not the gender they initially presented him/herself to be. 

It should not matter when just talking with someone in a non-sexual context, on which I think you agree with me.

Many factors can affect one's sexual attraction to another person, not the least of which is their sex and/or gender.  This is perfectly normal and reasonable. What seems unreasonable to me (probably because I've been raised in a relatively sexually egalitarian society) is the inclination to be rude and dismissive to one one gender of person, but not to another gender of person.

[Risk Nebula]

Joining the gang of people who don't use voice because of auditory issues. For me, not being able to see lips, poor audio quality/noise, and people talking over each over just means I'm going to get one word in ten if I'm lucky. Plus, trying to process it for too long tends to slowly shut down my ability to understand words at all. Fun autism things!

As for the main thrust of things... I dunno, maybe it's because I'm nonbinary and my avatar is firmly Whatever, but I don't get it. If I were somehow entering an intimate relationship through SL I'd want to make sure I knew what gender they were, since cis men do play women and vice versa, but that's about it for me. Friendship and casual conversations I just go with whatever you indicate you are.

Luckily, even though I still think I'm gorgeous, like many people here once I started wearing short hair (and Maitreya Flat) people seem to have stopped being so constantly weird...

[Blaise Glendevon]

9 hours ago, entity0x said:

CONTEXT: Virtual Worlds in General

Some of us like to know who we're dealing with. Other than a roleplaying scenario it can be quite strange to try to deal with someone based on their avatar only, they never talk for some reason, and so put up a barrier in the relationship based on the clown suit.

Although it's not required to know someone's personal details in order to be friends with people - sometimes it gets exhausting dealing with the 'costume' people put up. It functions very much as a strawman or clown-makeup - and people think we're going to be able to take them seriously when they're not participating fully in the encounter.

After awhile, if it happens a lot - one may not even want to engage with those who use only text chat - as we really don't know who we're speaking with, or if it is an alt of someone else (happens), or a stalker (happens) or any other reason the mind may come up with.

I understand that many don't use the microphone for many reasons, and in general I can accept it - but at some point I fatigue having to deal with so many deeply-layered 'anonymous' characters that there is no way I would bother engaging with them - as it is not a real person I'm dealing with.

I feel the same way with anyone who might wear their politic, social, or other issue on their sleeve or as the whole of their presentation - because I feel there is a barrier put up, and I cannot relate properly to that real person - I'm just engaging with the 'act', the 'front', the strawman - and that gets old.

"Tell me when Jake comes back, cuz I'm tired of talking to the clown makeup"
"Tell me when Jane comes back, cuz I'm done talking to the beer"

It may have not been an attack at all , but a legitimate question. Just like you probably choose who to engage with and not according to your own standards - how about affording that courtesy to others - assume good intention instead of not, and stop framing people as hostile, aggressive or rude because you feel a certain way.

I could ask the same question, with the same concern, and I would be framed as 'rude', 'hostile', or 'jerk' just for asking. That's BS.

Such  a simple and random engagement has got you rattled, and it doesn't have to. So it wasn't a pleasant experience, but there's no harm in communicating to another the terms of the relationship - and each party can take it or leave it.

 

This is purely nonsense. If I wanted to pull the mask off, I'd go socialize on facebook. The illusion and the distance - the character - is entirely the point here. I'm fine using voice, but most time I'd prefer not to listen to the one person who chews on mic in the club or the person in an adult venue with an obvious howling child in the background. Insisting people be a recognizable, identifiable person is just as much a costume as me bouncing around in a furry avatar. 

[Bree Giffen]

19 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I was walking around the Victorian Linden Homes one day, when some guy spoke to me in voice, saying "Hey. Get off my Street."

I looked around and responded in text, "Ha ha ha. You don't own the street." 

He said in voice , "Can you use voice? Use Voice."

I texted back, "I could, but I don't want to."

He said in voice, "Why don't you want to use voice. I bet it's because you're really a guy."

I texted back, "Why would that matter to you if I were?"

He said back in voice,  "You're a guy. Have fun pretending to be a woman in SL." Then he walked off and "hid" on a parcel where I couldn't see him, but knew he was there by zooming on him with the People window. 

Your confusion about that person's behavior is understandable. His entire interaction with you is not how a normal person behaves. Telling you to get off his street in voice was entirely intended to make you interact with him in voice. His reaction to your refusal was not immature, because even an immature child would behave better, it showed a complete lack of social grace that ordinary people  innately possess. He is very likely an incel.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

It should not matter when just talking with someone in a non-sexual context, on which I think you agree with me.

Barely talking, at that. The voice demand was his second line - to a complete stranger taking a stroll through town. It was wayyyy premature for him to even be thinking about dating/relationships, let alone having you prove a single, solitary thing about your RL identity.

[blissfulbreeze]

On 4/16/2022 at 3:36 AM, Persephone Emerald said:

I was walking around the Victorian Linden Homes one day, when some guy spoke to me in voice, saying "Hey. Get off my Street."

I looked around and responded in text, "Ha ha ha. You don't own the street." 

He said in voice , "Can you use voice? Use Voice."

I texted back, "I could, but I don't want to."

He said in voice, "Why don't you want to use voice. I bet it's because you're really a guy."

I texted back, "Why would that matter to you if I were?"

He said back in voice,  "You're a guy. Have fun pretending to be a woman in SL." Then he walked off and "hid" on a parcel where I couldn't see him, but knew he was there by zooming on him with the People window. 

This interaction made me wonder why do people care what the RL gender is of the user behind the avatar?  I'm not looking for any kind of romantic entanglement in SL. Three of my avatars are female, as am I in RL. I use voice when I want to and have been told I have a sexy voice, but I don't owe some rude little yahoo any proof of my RL gender. Is a guy like that only rude to female avatars? Also, why does someone like that think that saying "I bet you're really a guy" is some kind of insult or challenge to my RL gender identity or self esteem? 

Someone else on these forums said another user complained because they were using an eagle avatar. A friend of mine said someone else followed him around saying he should use a human avatar instead of a phoenix. Do these people have so little imagination that they need avatars to look like people?

We can look like a dragon, a frog, or a toaster if we want. I sometimes like to wear fantasy skins and rainbow-colored hair. Sometimes I like to wear a skimpy, sexy outfit. Sometimes I like to wear jeans and a long shirt. This doesn't change who I am on the RL side of my keyboard. I am not my avatar.

I realize people are visual creatures and are thus more likely to feel sexually attracted to a sexy-looking avatar, but if I say I'm not interested in SL sex, that doesn't change just because my avatar is wearing a short skirt and showing some cleavage. Even if I tell them I'm old enough to be their mother in RL, some guys still seem to think of me as my 30-something sexy-looking avatar.

People that act like that are either looking for sex or they are miserable people who think that everyone should think like them. 

[Qie Niangao]

18 hours ago, entity0x said:

I feel the same way with anyone who might wear their politic, social, or other issue on their sleeve or as the whole of their presentation - because I feel there is a barrier put up, and I cannot relate properly to that real person - I'm just engaging with the 'act', the 'front', the strawman - and that gets old.

This seems backwards, doesn't it? If somebody is a secret fascist, say, by concealing that fact wouldn't they be putting up the "barrier", "the 'act', the 'front'"? 

If people are worried about being "deceived" about the mere RL gender of an SL acquaintance, why shouldn't they be concerned about that acquaintance's RL politics? They're afraid of a boy playing girl but don't mind being politically catfished by undercover Q-grooming Putinistas?

(Also, it's kind of surprising that there are those who still cling to the illusion that SL voice is some indicator of RL gender; at this point I'd hope that's strictly a conscious act of self-deception.)

[Ayashe Ninetails]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

(Also, it's kind of surprising that there are those who still cling to the illusion that SL voice is some indicator of RL gender; at this point I'd hope that's strictly a conscious act of self-deception.)

Let them have that. The last thing we need is people demanding video chat two lines after "Hello." 😳

[Love Zhaoying]

Ooh, I thought of a good one! "Sorry, I only voice with guys/blokes. From your voice, it's obvious that you're female." 

[Velk Kerang]

23 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

"You may think I'm a man but I know you're an asshat".  Mute

 

Get out of my head. You literally beat me to it. lol🤣

18 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Literal homophobia & transphobia.

Wouldn't want to risk bumping uglies if the uglies might match. That might lead to feelings and all kinds of self questioning, and perhaps making a voice verified group to keep track of all the people they managed to bully into defending themselves, and honestly .. who has time for that.

Seriously? lol Playing the phobia card? lol Maybe they just have a preference. Either way from what the OP describes asshat pretty much covers it all. lol🤣

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Let them have that. The last thing we need is people demanding video chat two lines after "Hello." 😳

It has happened. Been a few years but it has happened to me. I still don't have a camera on my desktop. I'm not going to buy one just to satisfy some asshat on SL that I am female in RL. They aren't getting in my pants no matter what they say or do. I'm not here for sex. 

And of course, there is always some idiot who just has to try just because they think they are all that. 🙄

[Ayashe Ninetails]

8 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It has happened. Been a few years but it has happened to me. I still don't have a camera on my desktop. I'm not going to buy one just to satisfy some asshat on SL that I am female in RL. They aren't getting in my pants no matter what they say or do. I'm not here for sex. 

And of course, there is always some idiot who just has to try just because they think they are all that. 🙄

Ew! And I'm right there with you - absolutely ZERO desire to ever purchase a webcam. Never happening. Nope. Not. Neva. I don't even like real cameras. You should see the way I bolt out of a room when someone busts one out, LOL. That started sometime in my early teen years I guess, because I didn't mind too much when photos had to be taken during dance recitals. Now? NOPE. 🤣

[Silent Mistwalker]

22 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Ew! And I'm right there with you - absolutely ZERO desire to ever purchase a webcam. Never happening. Nope. Not. Neva. I don't even like real cameras. You should see the way I bolt out of a room when someone busts one out, LOL. That started sometime in my early teen years I guess, because I didn't mind too much when photos had to be taken during dance recitals. Now? NOPE. 🤣

The only good photos of me are the ones I don't know are being taken. Except for portrait types and of course the dance recital portraits and the piano and swimming ones. It makes me uncomfortable, so I don't "act naturally". But that gets into a whole other ball of wax. 

[Sukubia Scarmon]

56 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The only good photos of me are the ones I don't know are being taken. Except for portrait types and of course the dance recital portraits and the piano and swimming ones. It makes me uncomfortable, so I don't "act naturally". But that gets into a whole other ball of wax. 

If I notice a camera, I'll do faces! If I can't get out of that situation, that is.

[Silent Mistwalker]

15 minutes ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

If I notice a camera, I'll do faces! If I can't get out of that situation, that is.

 

Husband did that. He ruined the only photo of the two of us together that will ever exist. He thought he was being funny. It wasn't funny to me.

[Paul Hexem]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:12 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

Literal homophobia & transphobia.

He doesn't want to catch "teh gay". It's worse than cooties, you know!

On 4/16/2022 at 7:08 PM, Rowan Amore said:

I think men's masculinity is more closely tied to their sexuality than women's.

In all honesty, I think it's more complex and this is a significant factor. A big part of the blame is society and expectations, too. People throw around "toxic masculinity" a lot, but one of the times it's really accurate is a situation like this.

As a straight male, if you found yourself in that situation, traditional masculinity would belittle you- even though you're basically the victim of being misled.

[Mercedes Avon]

There are a small handful of men like this in SL. These are the same men, who after asking you to verify your voice, will ask for a picture, for your age, and where you are from. For them, SL women are all on their buffet and they want to determine if you are RL shaggable before wasting their time talking to you. I also consider these type of interactions to be like a job interview but for a job I am not applying for.

SL friendships (or SL only relationships for that matter) are not what they are after.

[Codex Alpha]

1 hour ago, Mercedes Avon said:

There are a small handful of men like this in SL. These are the same men, who after asking you to verify your voice, will ask for a picture, for your age, and where you are from. For them, SL women are all on their buffet and they want to determine if you are RL shaggable before wasting their time talking to you. I also consider these type of interactions to be like a job interview but for a job I am not applying for.

SL friendships (or SL only relationships for that matter) are not what they are after.

And many times, some of us are just saying "Hello", and now regret even bothering. Too many have chips on their shoulders and mental issues - and you never know which one is going to get set off. By the posts on these forums, there are many, so why does anyone bother with the social space.

Don't worry, I will never try to talk to you inworld, wouldn't ever want you to feel put upon or threatened or harassed.

Edited April 18, 2022 by entity0x

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, entity0x said:

And many times, some of us are just saying "Hello", and now regret even bothering. Too many have chips on their shoulders and mental issues - and you never know which one is going to get set off. By the posts on these forums, there are many, so why does anyone bother with the social space.

Don't worry, I will never try to talk to you inworld, wouldn't ever want you to feel put upon or threatened or harassed.

She was talking about the OP and a.person requiring voice before any interaction whatsoever and she did preface it with Some Men.  That's not the same as someone saying 'Hello'. Or that ALL men are like that.  I find very few are actually.

 Too many have chips on their shoulders and mental issues?  The same could be said about men I've talked to...just sayin'.

The last.sentence was pure rubbish.  Talk about a chip.  Sheesh.

[Maryanne Solo]

13 minutes ago, entity0x said:

Don't worry, I will never try to talk to you inworld, wouldn't ever want you to feel put upon or threatened or harassed.

Too much the victim, layer upon layer of le' bullsheisen. 
Add me to your Coffee & Mercedes list.
\0_

[Mercedes Avon]

4 hours ago, entity0x said:

And many times, some of us are just saying "Hello", and now regret even bothering. Too many have chips on their shoulders and mental issues - and you never know which one is going to get set off. By the posts on these forums, there are many, so why does anyone bother with the social space.

Don't worry, I will never try to talk to you inworld, wouldn't ever want you to feel put upon or threatened or harassed.

The only person ultra sensitive to interaction with others is you. I was replying to the OP and the situation she described. I certainly did not throw all men into one pile. I also wasn't referring to you or your posts. I pretty much ignored those like you suggested doing when someone annoys another. Try doing the same.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Mercedes Avon
Same ole same ole

[Kalegthepsionicist]

On 4/16/2022 at 3:36 PM, Persephone Emerald said:

I was walking around the Victorian Linden Homes one day, when some guy spoke to me in voice, saying "Hey. Get off my Street."

I looked around and responded in text, "Ha ha ha. You don't own the street." 

He said in voice , "Can you use voice? Use Voice."

I texted back, "I could, but I don't want to."

He said in voice, "Why don't you want to use voice. I bet it's because you're really a guy."

I texted back, "Why would that matter to you if I were?"

He said back in voice,  "You're a guy. Have fun pretending to be a woman in SL." Then he walked off and "hid" on a parcel where I couldn't see him, but knew he was there by zooming on him with the People window. 

This interaction made me wonder why do people care what the RL gender is of the user behind the avatar?  I'm not looking for any kind of romantic entanglement in SL. Three of my avatars are female, as am I in RL. I use voice when I want to and have been told I have a sexy voice, but I don't owe some rude little yahoo any proof of my RL gender. Is a guy like that only rude to female avatars? Also, why does someone like that think that saying "I bet you're really a guy" is some kind of insult or challenge to my RL gender identity or self esteem? 

Someone else on these forums said another user complained because they were using an eagle avatar. A friend of mine said someone else followed him around saying he should use a human avatar instead of a phoenix. Do these people have so little imagination that they need avatars to look like people?

We can look like a dragon, a frog, or a toaster if we want. I sometimes like to wear fantasy skins and rainbow-colored hair. Sometimes I like to wear a skimpy, sexy outfit. Sometimes I like to wear jeans and a long shirt. This doesn't change who I am on the RL side of my keyboard. I am not my avatar.

I realize people are visual creatures and are thus more likely to feel sexually attracted to a sexy-looking avatar, but if I say I'm not interested in SL sex, that doesn't change just because my avatar is wearing a short skirt and showing some cleavage. Even if I tell them I'm old enough to be their mother in RL, some guys still seem to think of me as my 30-something sexy-looking avatar.

why you turn on your  voice ?

I thino that whote dot shown mean you willing to voice. turn it off.

from my logical perpective as mundane.

some people cant see clearly and rheybuse  small laptop . they cant see text. thats why soke use capslock when texting. ypu know super tiny screen.

but I thino you have enemies al

you ser howhard oBtexting without edut it many yimes ?

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Kalegthepsionicist

[Kalegthepsionicist]

😜👍

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Kalegthepsionicist said:

why you turn on your  voice ?

You know, that's a good question, and thanks for asking because I'd forgotten I had voice enabled despite having no mic on this machine. In fact, I usually keep Second Life sound completely turned off.  You're right: that white voice dot is an unfortunate signal to others that I might respond to voice when there's zero chance of my knowing it's even happening.

Rarely, I listen to SL audio when scripting sounds, but mostly I have better things to do with my ears than whatever is happening on SL. The way voice gets turned on in my viewer is for those Linden user groups that are in voice instead of text. (In my case it's usually "Concierge & Land" but I think some others also still use voice.)

Anyway, I turned voice off again; not sure how I'll remember to do it again next time. It would be handy if scripts could query agent data to figure out if voice is active so I could remind myself to turn it off, but I don't recall any LSL function for that.