Why does it matter?

[Persephone Emerald]

I was walking around the Victorian Linden Homes one day, when some guy spoke to me in voice, saying "Hey. Get off my Street."

I looked around and responded in text, "Ha ha ha. You don't own the street." 

He said in voice , "Can you use voice? Use Voice."

I texted back, "I could, but I don't want to."

He said in voice, "Why don't you want to use voice. I bet it's because you're really a guy."

I texted back, "Why would that matter to you if I were?"

He said back in voice,  "You're a guy. Have fun pretending to be a woman in SL." Then he walked off and "hid" on a parcel where I couldn't see him, but knew he was there by zooming on him with the People window. 

This interaction made me wonder why do people care what the RL gender is of the user behind the avatar?  I'm not looking for any kind of romantic entanglement in SL. Three of my avatars are female, as am I in RL. I use voice when I want to and have been told I have a sexy voice, but I don't owe some rude little yahoo any proof of my RL gender. Is a guy like that only rude to female avatars? Also, why does someone like that think that saying "I bet you're really a guy" is some kind of insult or challenge to my RL gender identity or self esteem? 

Someone else on these forums said another user complained because they were using an eagle avatar. A friend of mine said someone else followed him around saying he should use a human avatar instead of a phoenix. Do these people have so little imagination that they need avatars to look like people?

We can look like a dragon, a frog, or a toaster if we want. I sometimes like to wear fantasy skins and rainbow-colored hair. Sometimes I like to wear a skimpy, sexy outfit. Sometimes I like to wear jeans and a long shirt. This doesn't change who I am on the RL side of my keyboard. I am not my avatar.

I realize people are visual creatures and are thus more likely to feel sexually attracted to a sexy-looking avatar, but if I say I'm not interested in SL sex, that doesn't change just because my avatar is wearing a short skirt and showing some cleavage. Even if I tell them I'm old enough to be their mother in RL, some guys still seem to think of me as my 30-something sexy-looking avatar.

[Akane Nacht]

Only once, for me, did a friend take it into his head that I was a dude and wanted to hear my voice to prove I wasn't. It annoyed me enough that I used voice for perhaps the 3rd (and last) time I ever did in SL, and because the connection was very bad and I was irritated I shouted at him. He then said: Ok, I believe you, please don't use voice again!

If it's a random dude asking, he's welcome to think whatever he likes. If you want to troll him back just say: Well I heard you're really a girl and I wanted to meet you 😘

[Ceka Cianci]

That person that came out of the bushes or where ever in the OP, They were just short on wit and parroting what they have been programmed to say in here by other ignorant people that never took the time to understand second life..

It doesn't matter really.. It may to that person, but who are they anyways?

When someone comes at me with stupid stuff like that, Sometimes I'll just say.. Ok

It's amazing how well that works a lot of time.. It's kind of like a Tai Chi move of confusion..  0o Did they just win? 0oDid I just win? 0owhat the hell is going on!! \o/

  I just picture someone waving their arms in all kinds of crazy kung fu kind of moves and getting all red faced and ready for their next attack.. Then saying a simple, OK and getting this response.  Huh? 0o

All that last part happens in my own mind, but it's really satisfying.. hehehe

[Lewis Luminos]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

This interaction made me wonder why do people care what the RL gender is of the user behind the avatar? 

In my experience with using female avatars, in situations like that, it's 100% because they find your avatar is a turn-on and they want to know what you are in RL so they know whether to pursue attempts to get sex.

Quote

Is a guy like that only rude to female avatars?

Yes. They don't talk to male avatars at all.

Quote

Also, why does someone like that think that saying "I bet you're really a guy" is some kind of insult or challenge to my RL gender identity or self esteem? 

I think maybe because they'd feel it was an insult or a challenge to their own gender identity and they assume it must be the same for everyone else.

Quote

Do these people have so little imagination that they need avatars to look like people? 

Avatars that don't look like people are not a sexual turn-on (generally), so again I'd think that they're fishing to see if you're worth pursuing for sex.

Both my girls have furry forms and as long as they stay out of exclusively furry clubs whilst wearing those forms, guys tend to leave them alone, I rarely get anyone saying they should change to human (except in cases of venue dresscode, which is rare-to-never because I always check the venue dresscode first). 

Tammi gets left alone for the most part, because she is fat and a bit intimidating in the way she dresses (that was intentional on my part). Indra is more conventionally attractive but she's not white, which again helps to reduce unwanted attention (at least some of those knuckle-draggers are racist as well as sexist). 

[Robberinthemuseum]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I was walking around the Victorian Linden Homes one day, when some guy spoke to me in voice, saying "Hey. Get off my Street."

I looked around and responded in text, "Ha ha ha. You don't own the street." 

He said in voice , "Can you use voice? Use Voice."

I texted back, "I could, but I don't want to."

He said in voice, "Why don't you want to use voice. I bet it's because you're really a guy."

I texted back, "Why would that matter to you if I were?"

He said back in voice,  "You're a guy. Have fun pretending to be a woman in SL." Then he walked off and "hid" on a parcel where I couldn't see him, but knew he was there by zooming on him with the People window. 

This interaction made me wonder why do people care what the RL gender is of the user behind the avatar?  I'm not looking for any kind of romantic entanglement in SL. Three of my avatars are female, as am I in RL. I use voice when I want to and have been told I have a sexy voice, but I don't owe some rude little yahoo any proof of my RL gender. Is a guy like that only rude to female avatars? Also, why does someone like that think that saying "I bet you're really a guy" is some kind of insult or challenge to my RL gender identity or self esteem? 

Someone else on these forums said another user complained because they were using an eagle avatar. A friend of mine said someone else followed him around saying he should use a human avatar instead of a phoenix. Do these people have so little imagination that they need avatars to look like people?

We can look like a dragon, a frog, or a toaster if we want. I sometimes like to wear fantasy skins and rainbow-colored hair. Sometimes I like to wear a skimpy, sexy outfit. Sometimes I like to wear jeans and a long shirt. This doesn't change who I am on the RL side of my keyboard. I am not my avatar.

I realize people are visual creatures and are thus more likely to feel sexually attracted to a sexy-looking avatar, but if I say I'm not interested in SL sex, that doesn't change just because my avatar is wearing a short skirt and showing some cleavage. Even if I tell them I'm old enough to be their mother in RL, some guys still seem to think of me as my 30-something sexy-looking avatar.

I'm sorry but that's hilarious 🤣.  I can think of so many things I would do in that situation. Many would get me banned from the forum. When I was younger, I loved to troll so much. I digress, just sent him a burping, hairy wet 🐈 video. Tell him that's what you sound like. 😆. Sorry, I'm a disgusting perve. Moving along now. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Robberinthemuseum

[Love Zhaoying]

"Get off my street" is literally like the troll under the bridge, was it in "3 Billy Goats Gruff"?

[cunomar]

In most it will cause a quickly forgotten shrug of contempt . In the more vulnerable a dilemma perhaps ? so the asker is either stupid , immature , lazy or specifically looking for someone who is easily manipulated .

From the outset i accepted avatars are who people want to be .Tall people want to be small and small people want to be tall , boys want to be girls and girls want to be boys - shrugs .

For me it was a strange kind of leap to knowingly jump into a virtual bed with a female avatar rl man . Fact is i was worried about his rl obsession with having a sex change for what seemed to me to be all the wrong reasons . Like getting married to fix a failed relationship . I needed to get him out of public chat into an intimate one on one conversation , not to change his mind but rather to have him question his own scatterbrain motives .

Cost me nothing nobody got hurt and he seemed to appreciate just someone , anyone , taking the time to give his personal circumstances some consideration .

A harmless soul not very bright wrongly believing the current trend of be what you want to be positive message will cure all that makes him unhappy in himself .

So yeah it matters sometimes i think but its the way of the world that because of 1 warped individual in every million people we will not let our children out of sight .  Honesty is always the best policy but nobody is going to believe it anyway .

[Rowan Amore]

"You may think I'm a man but I know you're an asshat".  Mute

 

[Sukubia Scarmon]

Insecurity. 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

When someone comes at me with stupid stuff like that, Sometimes I'll just say.. Ok

 

Omg they'll get to talk to a real girl! Probably a rare treat, else why would they be so excited?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Lol, I'm so cynical. The "Hey. Get off my Street" was just thrown out there solely to get you to respond in voice to he could verify you were indeed female. I guess he had trouble coming up with something a bit friendlier, civil, or original to say that'd guarantee a response (especially if it turned out you were male - can't take the flirty route!), so he went with a "get off my lawn" style approach. 😂 Poor guy really thought that would work!

I agree with everything Lewis said. I will say my furry deer got a friendly "really cute avatar" comment from a guy (human) somewhat recently, but these days, I rarely ever get IMs on my human female at all. It's likely a combination of half-shaving her head, rocking a skully mask tattoo, and whiting out her eyes. This is the way towards everlasting peace, my friend - zombify thyself. Actually, I think it might just be the hair, to be honest. I can't remember the last time I got hit on with that hairstyle - or any like it. So - shave ya head.

As to the why - Lewis covered it all.

Now, if this situation happened to me, I'd always make sure to switch my group tag to "Really a Guy" when wandering around his neighborhood, because I'm an absolute rapscallion.

[Feorie Frimon]

10 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Lol, I'm so cynical. The "Hey. Get off my Street" was just thrown out there solely to get you to respond in voice to he could verify you were indeed female. I guess he had trouble coming up with something a bit friendlier, civil, or original to say that'd guarantee a response (especially if it turned out you were male - can't take the flirty route!), so he went with a "get off my lawn" style approach. 😂 Poor guy really thought that would work!

I agree with everything Lewis said. I will say my furry deer got a friendly "really cute avatar" comment from a guy (human) somewhat recently, but these days, I rarely ever get IMs on my human female at all. It's likely a combination of half-shaving her head, rocking a skully mask tattoo, and whiting out her eyes. This is the way towards everlasting peace, my friend - zombify thyself. Actually, I think it might just be the hair, to be honest. I can't remember the last time I got hit on with that hairstyle - or any like it. So - shave ya head.

As to the why - Lewis covered it all.

Now, if this situation happened to me, I'd always make sure to switch my group tag to "Really a Guy" when wandering around his neighborhood, because I'm an absolute rapscallion.

I have an older hairstyle from Boone that is SUPER short too - I never get hit on when I wear it (even though it’s adorable!) 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

4 minutes ago, Feorie Frimon said:

I have an older hairstyle from Boone that is SUPER short too - I never get hit on when I wear it (even though it’s adorable!) 

Could be! I notice more IMs happen if I'm in something more traditional (very rare these days).

I use this - https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/adoness-valasca-20-DEMO/15245529 and sometimes https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/adoness-beanie-DEMO/16050185. 

Not a lot of rockabilly fans I guess. 😆

[Ceka Cianci]

22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Omg they'll get to talk to a real girl! Probably a rare treat, else why would they be so excited?

I don't mean ok I'll talk to them.. I just mean Ok to whatever they called me..

I just think short and sweet works best in a lot of things.

[Codex Alpha]

9 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

This interaction made me wonder why do people care what the RL gender is of the user behind the avatar?

CONTEXT: Virtual Worlds in General

Some of us like to know who we're dealing with. Other than a roleplaying scenario it can be quite strange to try to deal with someone based on their avatar only, they never talk for some reason, and so put up a barrier in the relationship based on the clown suit.

Although it's not required to know someone's personal details in order to be friends with people - sometimes it gets exhausting dealing with the 'costume' people put up. It functions very much as a strawman or clown-makeup - and people think we're going to be able to take them seriously when they're not participating fully in the encounter.

After awhile, if it happens a lot - one may not even want to engage with those who use only text chat - as we really don't know who we're speaking with, or if it is an alt of someone else (happens), or a stalker (happens) or any other reason the mind may come up with.

I understand that many don't use the microphone for many reasons, and in general I can accept it - but at some point I fatigue having to deal with so many deeply-layered 'anonymous' characters that there is no way I would bother engaging with them - as it is not a real person I'm dealing with.

I feel the same way with anyone who might wear their politic, social, or other issue on their sleeve or as the whole of their presentation - because I feel there is a barrier put up, and I cannot relate properly to that real person - I'm just engaging with the 'act', the 'front', the strawman - and that gets old.

"Tell me when Jake comes back, cuz I'm tired of talking to the clown makeup"
"Tell me when Jane comes back, cuz I'm done talking to the beer"

9 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Someone else on these forums said another user complained because they were using an eagle avatar. A friend of mine said someone else followed him around saying he should use a human avatar instead of a phoenix. Do these people have so little imagination that they need avatars to look like people?

We can look like a dragon, a frog, or a toaster if we want. I sometimes like to wear fantasy skins and rainbow-colored hair. Sometimes I like to wear a skimpy, sexy outfit. Sometimes I like to wear jeans and a long shirt. This doesn't change who I am on the RL side of my keyboard. I am not my avatar.

I realize people are visual creatures and are thus more likely to feel sexually attracted to a sexy-looking avatar, but if I say I'm not interested in SL sex, that doesn't change just because my avatar is wearing a short skirt and showing some cleavage. Even if I tell them I'm old enough to be their mother in RL, some guys still seem to think of me as my 30-something sexy-looking avatar.

It may have not been an attack at all , but a legitimate question. Just like you probably choose who to engage with and not according to your own standards - how about affording that courtesy to others - assume good intention instead of not, and stop framing people as hostile, aggressive or rude because you feel a certain way.

I could ask the same question, with the same concern, and I would be framed as 'rude', 'hostile', or 'jerk' just for asking. That's BS.

Such  a simple and random engagement has got you rattled, and it doesn't have to. So it wasn't a pleasant experience, but there's no harm in communicating to another the terms of the relationship - and each party can take it or leave it.

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by entity0x

[Coffee Pancake]

Literal homophobia & transphobia.

Wouldn't want to risk bumping uglies if the uglies might match. That might lead to feelings and all kinds of self questioning, and perhaps making a voice verified group to keep track of all the people they managed to bully into defending themselves, and honestly .. who has time for that.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, entity0x said:

CONTEXT: Virtual Worlds in General

Some of us like to know who we're dealing with. Other than a roleplaying scenario it can be quite strange to try to deal with someone based on their avatar only, they never talk for some reason, and so put up a barrier in the relationship based on the clown suit.

Although it's not required to know someone's personal details in order to be friends with people - sometimes it gets exhausting dealing with the 'costume' people put up. It functions very much as a strawman or clown-makeup - and people think we're going to be able to take them seriously when they're not participating fully in the encounter.

After awhile, if it happens a lot - one may not even want to engage with those who use only text chat - as we really don't know who we're speaking with, or if it is an alt of someone else (happens), or a stalker (happens) or any other reason the mind may come up with.

I understand that many don't use the microphone for many reasons, and in general I can accept it - but at some point I fatigue having to deal with so many deeply-layered 'anonymous' characters that there is no way I would bother engaging with them - as it is not a real person I'm dealing with.

I feel the same way with anyone who might wear their politic, social, or other issue on their sleeve or as the whole of their presentation - because I feel there is a barrier put up, and I cannot relate properly to that real person - I'm just engaging with the 'act', the 'front', the strawman - and that gets old.

"Tell me when Jake comes back, cuz I'm tired of talking to the clown makeup"
"Tell me when Jane comes back, cuz I'm done talking to the beer"

It may have not been an attack at all , but a legitimate question. Just like you probably choose who to engage with and not according to your own standards - how about affording that courtesy to others - assume good intention instead of not, and stop framing people as hostile, aggressive or rude because you feel a certain way.

I could ask the same question, with the same concern, and I would be framed as 'rude', 'hostile', or 'jerk' just for asking. That's BS.

Such  a simple and random engagement has got you rattled, and it doesn't have to. So it wasn't a pleasant experience, but there's no harm in communicating to another the terms of the relationship - and each party can take it or leave it.

 

Why do you think I saw this encounter as an attack? He was rude because the first thing out of his mouth was "Get off my street!", followed by demanding I talk to him in voice, then saying I must be a man because I didn't want to do so.

I don't view such a random encounter as a relationship. I view it as an interesting quirk of Second Life. It makes me wonder what goes on in someone's mind when they choose to act in what seems to be a rather insecure and hostile manner toward some stranger walking down a virtual street. I assumed he thought his aggressive stance would rattle me somehow make me want to appease him by conceding to his demand to hear my voice.

Remember too that I could hear his intonation. If someone were talking with you on the phone, don't you think you'd be able to tell if they were doing so in a rude manner or not? He was not behaving as if he wanted to get to know me better. He was behaving like a troll who maybe didn't like seeing an avatar wearing a fantasy colored skin and walking around his(?) neighborhood. The parcel he ducked into to hide wasn't owned by him either, unless he was an alt of the owner. 

Thanks for your response though, I think it does help me understand these kinds of people.

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, entity0x said:

It may have not been an attack at all , but a legitimate question. Just like you probably choose who to engage with and not according to your own standards - how about affording that courtesy to others - assume good intention instead of not, and stop framing people as hostile, aggressive or rude because you feel a certain way.

I could ask the same question, with the same concern, and I would be framed as 'rude', 'hostile', or 'jerk' just for asking. That's BS.

Such  a simple and random engagement has got you rattled, and it doesn't have to. So it wasn't a pleasant experience, but there's no harm in communicating to another the terms of the relationship - and each party can take it or leave it.

wut?

[Coffee Pancake]

I've had people walk up to me on my own land and demand that I turn on voice so they can "know who I am".

Then ported in all their friends to join them on the ban list.

Who then stood on the edge of my parcel shouting obscenities and slurs for an entire afternoon as some kind of protest.

 

I got the impression he had decided he wanted to hit on me, saw the massive pride flag , decided I was unobtainable for "reasons" and needed to save face all before saying a word. His day was ruined and it was all my fault.

I don't think my finding the entire thing hilarious helped 😂

[belindacarson]

2 hours ago, entity0x said:

CONTEXT: Virtual Worlds in General

Some of us like to know who we're dealing with. Other than a roleplaying scenario it can be quite strange to try to deal with someone based on their avatar only, they never talk for some reason, and so put up a barrier in the relationship based on the clown suit.

Although it's not required to know someone's personal details in order to be friends with people - sometimes it gets exhausting dealing with the 'costume' people put up. It functions very much as a strawman or clown-makeup - and people think we're going to be able to take them seriously when they're not participating fully in the encounter.

After awhile, if it happens a lot - one may not even want to engage with those who use only text chat - as we really don't know who we're speaking with, or if it is an alt of someone else (happens), or a stalker (happens) or any other reason the mind may come up with.

I understand that many don't use the microphone for many reasons, and in general I can accept it - but at some point I fatigue having to deal with so many deeply-layered 'anonymous' characters that there is no way I would bother engaging with them - as it is not a real person I'm dealing with.

I feel the same way with anyone who might wear their politic, social, or other issue on their sleeve or as the whole of their presentation - because I feel there is a barrier put up, and I cannot relate properly to that real person - I'm just engaging with the 'act', the 'front', the strawman - and that gets old.

"Tell me when Jake comes back, cuz I'm tired of talking to the clown makeup"
"Tell me when Jane comes back, cuz I'm done talking to the beer"

It may have not been an attack at all , but a legitimate question. Just like you probably choose who to engage with and not according to your own standards - how about affording that courtesy to others - assume good intention instead of not, and stop framing people as hostile, aggressive or rude because you feel a certain way.

I could ask the same question, with the same concern, and I would be framed as 'rude', 'hostile', or 'jerk' just for asking. That's BS.

Such  a simple and random engagement has got you rattled, and it doesn't have to. So it wasn't a pleasant experience, but there's no harm in communicating to another the terms of the relationship - and each party can take it or leave it.

 

Common sense posting

 

well done ^^

[Sukubia Scarmon]

I don't know, I just really do not care about the gender of people for it to really affect me, at all. I take them as they present to me, and just chat with them regardless of gender. I have deep, long conversations, and good friends on here, without ever having any sort of confirmation that their genitals do indeed match their avatars. 

[Rowan Amore]

And why I rarely have voice enabled.  

[diamond Marchant]

43 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And why I rarely have voice enabled. 

Me too. There are legitimate reasons one may choose not to voice, including

- You may view voice as not part of an "immersive experience" in a virtual world

- You may wish to not share aspects of yourself that voice would communicate such as age, accent, illness, environment, etc.

- Your RL environment may not be one where you feel free to speak

- You don't entertain the requests of randos

Also, if you have a male sounding voice but wish to voice in SL and sound female... isn't there an app for that?

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

I don't know, I just really do not care about the gender of people for it to really affect me, at all. I take them as they present to me, and just chat with them regardless of gender. I have deep, long conversations, and good friends on here, without ever having any sort of confirmation that their genitals do indeed match their avatars. 

The only time it's ever really been brought up from my end is in adult contexts where I, as the dominant, was being asked to extend play off screen in an established relationship. It's something that was always handled carefully  ... err..😂... ho-hum

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 hours ago, entity0x said:

It may have not been an attack at all , but a legitimate question. Just like you probably choose who to engage with and not according to your own standards - how about affording that courtesy to others - assume good intention instead of not, and stop framing people as hostile, aggressive or rude because you feel a certain way.

I had to read Peresphone's post twice, just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Nowhere in the description of her encounter with Mr. "Get off my street!" did she label or characterize it as an attack. Yet somehow you drew that conclusion. Though she did question the imaginations of people who seem intolerant of residents in non-human avatars, and did justifiably describe the fella as a "rude little yahoo", there was no framing of anyone as ill-intentioned, hostile, or aggressive. Yet again, that's a conclusion you drew. You then went on to accuse Persephone of being uncourteous. I think her response was light hearted, civil, and measured.

There is framing going on here, by you. I believe an apology to Persephone is in order.

At least your behavior is consistent. Eleven years ago, in your very first post in these forums, you railed against LL for the "theft" of your money by a billing glitch that had been explained four days earlier in the same thread. Your participation in that thread (and another) that day is an example of both framing and senseless vituperation. Meanwhile, the rest of the people in that thread had the good sense to presume there was no ill intent on the part of LL.

Though I surely don't see your behavior as representative of good sense, and hope it's not representative of common sense, as an example of something else entirely, I'll join @belindacarson in saying.

Well done!