Why does it matter?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, entity0x said:

From what I read about this topic and others, I think people read into things way too much - and usually leaning towards considering it a negative experience. This might be part of their own trauma and mental issues and I hope they can find their way out of it.

For me and others - it just becomes tedious and can even ruin our own experience and view of Second Life and its members - when everyone is so touchy, sensitive or just quick to react when our intentions are good.

Although I don't enjoy this back and forth on these topics with people, if I don't say anything to the contrary, than the majority of posters with this bad attitude paint Second Life as a place filled with harassers, griefers and creeps.

I respect your view on it, though honestly, what becomes tedious is the barrage of in-world IMs that all pretty much say the same thing. I say that as someone who's been here a loooooooong time and goes pretty far out of my way to avoid such encounters these days (my main avatar does not fit anybody's beauty standards but my own - though if someone finds her cute, too, then yay). I'm absolutely open to dating in SL, but not right off the bat with some random stranger I just so happened to bump into at Skin Fair or something. The "Sir, ThisIsAWendy's" floating above my head is kind of a clue that I'm not up for that, fam.

That said, it's totally cool if someone wants to treat SL as a dating service, but we're not all looking for those types of interactions (and I'm speaking very generally here - not just women). Sometimes we really are just exploring sims and having a good time and don't want to feel like we're on POF or OKCupid. That doesn't mean don't approach people at all - by all means do so. But there's a massive difference between a friendly "OMG that's such a cool sailboat where'd you get it?" and a "hi bb u look gud." It's the second one that tends to be a massive turnoff for people. It's really not difficult to avoid sounding like that, either.

In Persephone's case, the guy went even further and started making demands right away. I can't see how that would be attractive to anybody either. Just throwing that out there.

[Madelaine McMasters]

4 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

Yes marriage is a team effort. Men do man shirt and a woman does women shirt.

Hmm.

Dad ran a mechanical engineering consulting business out of our home/lab/shop/barn. Mom did the books, banking, taxes, budgets, and scheduling, and provided a set of capable hands when needed. She did the same for our neighbor who ran a machine shop while his wife taught kindergarten.

On the domestic side, Dad usually cooked (spiders are rich in protein!), Mom usually cleaned. Sometimes they switched, producing a crappy meal on spotless dishes one night and great food on "safely clean" dishes the next.

Mom made better looking welds, spilled less oil during changes, and could get her hands into smaller spaces to fix things. Dad had the muscles and woodworking skills for home remodeling. Mom was the better painter, and taught me how to "cut in" and to wrap a used (oil) paint brush in aluminum foil and put it in the freezer to avoid having to clean it every night during long projects. (There's a paint brush in my freezer, right now.)

Dad taught me how to pony my hair. He had more experience, his hair was always longer than Mom's. Mom taught me how to plant things, from seeds to trees, using my hands or the tractor.

I learned sewing from Mom and embroidery from Dad. I used both to make kites and fix tears in my jeans and sundresses. I learned welding and driving from Mom, woodworking, marionette making, and aeronautics from Dad. I learned to drive hand puppets, tractors and motorcycles from both, and we all learned how to build a telescope (including grinding the mirror) together.

Oh, I forgot to mention. I was home-schooled. No weekends off. No three month summer vacation. A trip to the Grand Tetons or Manhattan was road school. It was glorious.

As a result, I'm a divorced (he wanted kids, I still am one), retired electrical engineer with long lapsed pilot's and amateur radio licenses, a home that's in it's 86th year of remodeling, a strawberry field that's now a forest and a walk-in closet that looks my parents are still sharing it.

As I look around my world today, this is what I see:

Across the street, mom's a lawyer, dad's an accountant.  Next door, mom's a retired CFO, dad's a retired physician. Behind me, mom's a music teacher, dad's a biology professor. Behind them, mom's a lawyer, dad's a mechanical engineer. (We gang up on her.)

I understand you learned there is "men shirt" and "women shirt".

I didn't.*

We do agree on one thing. Marriage is a team effort.

*There is one gender anomaly in my observations. I rarely see women riding lawnmowers in my neighborhood. They're usually digging around in the dirt, planting things. From this I could deduce that men don't like getting their hands dirty.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters
Who writes this shirt?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

36 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Sometimes we really are just exploring sims and having a good time and don't want to feel like we're on POF or OKCupid. That doesn't mean don't approach people at all - by all means do so. But there's a massive difference between a friendly "OMG that's such a cool sailboat where'd you get it?" and a "hi bb u look gud." It's the second one that tends to be a massive turnoff for people. It's really not difficult to avoid sounding like that, either.

I think this is it, right?

I'm not open to dating, but I get that people are, and that's entirely cool. But someone who is approaching you straight out of the gate with a pic up line isn't interested in you as a person -- they can't be, as they know nothing about you yet. They just want a sexy play toy. And (unless I'm in a place where people go to role play sexy play toys), that's just disrespectful and boring.

I actually feel a little bad when a nice person takes the time to talk to me a while before getting to (his) main point, because he's generally just wasted both his time and my own. But at least we've connected as people a little bit.

There are places in SL where people go for quick and casual sex: if that's what you're looking for, go to those places. Most people wouldn't, surely, approach a stranger in most every day contexts in RL and propose a hook up right off the bat? So why should they think it's ok to do here?

[Ceka Cianci]

It's so hard to concentrate what Y'all are sayin, when y'all are muppets!! \o/

Edited April 20, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Codex Alpha]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think this is it, right?

I'm not open to dating, but I get that people are, and that's entirely cool. But someone who is approaching you straight out of the gate with a pic up line isn't interested in you as a person -- they can't be, as they know nothing about you yet. They just want a sexy play toy. And (unless I'm in a place where people go to role play sexy play toys), that's just disrespectful and boring.

I actually feel a little bad when a nice person takes the time to talk to me a while before getting to (his) main point, because he's generally just wasted both his time and my own. But at least we've connected as people a little bit.

There are places in SL where people go for quick and casual sex: if that's what you're looking for, go to those places. Most people wouldn't, surely, approach a stranger in most every day contexts in RL and propose a hook up right off the bat? So why should they think it's ok to do here?

I'm assuming that you are conservatively dressed, and just doing your thing and not actually dressed up as a 'sex-toy' looking sexually provocatively styled avatar which of course would gain that attention?

Cuz remember, there are lots of stories of  unwanted attention, yet one party or the other were dressed a certain way - and attracting a certain group of people.

Just as much as some would see a 'sexy' avatar and assume it's for sexy-time purposes and approach with that in mind, vs such as myself - not in Second Life for any of that, not interested in sex palaces, sex beds or sex play, but just creating and sharing with people.

Deny it at your own peril - how you present yourself can certainly affect how others see and treat you - and who you attract.

Don't want to attract sex-hungry 'dogs', then don't present yourself as a slab of meat

[Luna Bliss]

omg

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

5 minutes ago, entity0x said:

I'm assuming that you are conservatively dressed, and just doing your thing and not actually dressed up as a 'sex-toy' looking sexually provocatively styled avatar which of course would gain that attention?

Cuz remember, there are lots of stories of  unwanted attention, yet one party or the other were dressed a certain way - and attracting a certain group of people.

Just as much as some would see a 'sexy' avatar and assume it's for sexy-time purposes and approach with that in mind, vs such as myself - not in Second Life for any of that, not interested in sex palaces, sex beds or sex play, but just creating and sharing with people.

Deny it at your own peril - how you present yourself can certainly affect how others see and treat you - and who you attract.

Don't want to attract sex-hungry 'dogs', then don't present yourself as a slab of meat

Yeah, your avatars appearance does have some effect on the way other people treat you (obviously!) but the way you're presenting the argument is dangerously close to the age old argument of "well look at what you were wearing, you were asking for it!" ... Please don't go there!  

[Maryanne Solo]

6 minutes ago, entity0x said:

Don't want to attract sex-hungry 'dogs', then don't present yourself as a slab of meat

Wrong century dude.
Not quite sure how those with your "affliction" can have the gall to even post quite frankly.  
 

[Rowan Amore]

49 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I rarely see women riding lawnmowers in my neighborhood

I rarely do either.  Funny thing is, I distinctly remember my mom being the one riding the lawnmower when I was little.  Another one of those things that got her out of the house, without us kids, for some quality alone time.

[Coffee Pancake]

16 minutes ago, entity0x said:

I'm assuming that you are conservatively dressed, and just doing your thing and not actually dressed up as a 'sex-toy' looking sexually provocatively styled avatar which of course would gain that attention?

Cuz remember, there are lots of stories of  unwanted attention, yet one party or the other were dressed a certain way - and attracting a certain group of people.

Just as much as some would see a 'sexy' avatar and assume it's for sexy-time purposes and approach with that in mind, vs such as myself - not in Second Life for any of that, not interested in sex palaces, sex beds or sex play, but just creating and sharing with people.

Deny it at your own peril - how you present yourself can certainly affect how others see and treat you - and who you attract.

Don't want to attract sex-hungry 'dogs', then don't present yourself as a slab of meat

Oh my god.

If me or my avatar look hot, that's for me because that's how I want to look.

It does not make me or my avatar a "slab of meat" for the "dogs" and does not in any way shape or form absolve or excuse the behavior of men who look at women that way. We have laws against that kind of thing.

[Codex Alpha]

11 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Yeah, your avatars appearance does have some effect on the way other people treat you (obviously!) but the way you're presenting the argument is dangerously close to the age old argument of "well look at what you were wearing, you were asking for it!" ... Please don't go there!  

There's also a position I've heard women say on the same matter:
"Just because someone is dressed sexy doesn't mean they want sex"
"My daughter should be able to wear a skimpy bikini and not have guys lusting after her"

These statements may be true, but just not based in reality and how people will NORMALLY react to certain stimuli.

No need to villainize or victimize a group based on this, but to realize that yes, how we act how we dress, where we go at what hour, what neighbourhood, and with who ALL has an effect, and one MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY to make decisions to keep themselves safe.

[Rowan Amore]

I'd quote but there's no need to repeat that drivel.

As I've mentioned before, I go out and about dressed as I do in the pictures I post here.  Almost ALL unwanted IMs requesting adult activities come at places other than adult.  Shopping mostly.  Also when I've been at nearly empty regions taking pictures.  I clearly state in my profile that I'm not interested in your pixel attachment yet because I'm a woman and dressed nicely I should expect unwanted advances?  Are you a Neanderthal?  

We're also not discussing RL and inherent dangers women face REGARDLESS of how they dress.  

 

[Maryanne Solo]

Forum peeps will genuinely try and assist those with naturally occurring mental health issues to try and ensure they have a good time here.
Then there's you. 🤔

[Codex Alpha]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'd quote but there's no need to repeat that drivel.

As I've mentioned before, I go out and about dressed as I do in the pictures I post here.  Almost ALL unwanted IMs requesting adult activities come at places other than adult.  Shopping mostly.  Also when I've been at nearly empty regions taking pictures.  I clearly state in my profile that I'm not interested in your pixel attachment yet because I'm a woman and dressed nicely I should expect unwanted advances?  Are you a Neanderthal?  

We're also not discussing RL and inherent dangers women face REGARDLESS of how they dress.  

 

Got it. I guess I forgot so soon. You're a victim, you have no agency, and no power to change outcomes for yourself.

[Luna Bliss]

I think he's just trying to bug us.  We should probably ignore him.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, entity0x said:

Got it. I guess I forgot so soon. You're a victim, you have no agency, and no power to change outcomes for yourself.

So I'm guessing you would also believe that if a woman walks down a dark alley at midnight in her bathing suit she is asking to be sexually assaulted and she's partly to blame? That's what I hear from what you just posted.

[Rowan Amore]

[Maryanne Solo]

Broken records - invented in 1610.
Who knew? 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

23 minutes ago, entity0x said:

I'm assuming that you are conservatively dressed... *and other greatest hits!*

No Sir, not on my watch. It's not up to anyone to tell anybody else how to dress. Besides, what's "conservative" will differ based on a person's overall style and preference. My "conservatively dressed" still includes various types of leather, tattoos, piercings, pasties over my upper non-HD bits, harnesses, fishnet, and slinky boots up to my eyeballs. Your definition might mean something else entirely. Who knows.

But I'll tell ya what - if I feel like running around in the skimpiest of mini-micro bikinis, it's still not open season on me. I do that for *myself* - because let's face it, my avatar's got the cutest booty in all the land and sometimes I just want to admire my handiwork. 🤩

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, entity0x said:

From what I read about this topic and others, I think people read into things way too much - and usually leaning towards considering it a negative experience. This might be part of their own trauma and mental issues and I hope they can find their way out of it.

For me and others - it just becomes tedious and can even ruin our own experience and view of Second Life and its members - when everyone is so touchy, sensitive or just quick to react when our intentions are good - and THAT aspect should also be treated as a toxic influence on a community - right along with the more obvious toxic behaviours.

Although I don't enjoy this back and forth on these topics with people, if I don't say anything to the contrary, than the majority of posters with this bad attitude paint Second Life as a place filled with harassers, griefers and creeps.

My perception is that you feel out-numbered in these forums by people who don't agree with your point of view. Since you are out-numbered here, these other people tend to feel free to "gang up on you" and tell you that they think your views are bad or even objectively wrong. It seems reasonable to me that under these circumstances you feel victimized and like you need to defend your minority views. Maybe you feel like you need to show a "balanced" perspective by presenting another side of the discourse?, but you can't really show that your opinion carries just as much weight at that of the majority just by posting the same views over and over again. Like it or not, your views are in the minority *on this board*. Being in the minority doesn't mean you have to leave. It doesn't mean you have to be silent. It does mean that shouting louder and more frequently is not going to win people over to your perspective. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

@entity0x

Fine, since you decided to "go there" regardless of my imploring you not to, you've expressed your position on this issue, now I'll express mine.

The way one person dresses or looks NEVER gives another individual the right to touch or in any way objectify them.... EVER!!!

Any person that cannot respect that and keep their hands (or any other body part) to themselves, deserves to lose said body part!

There, now we've both expressed our opinions on that topic and I have no interest in hearing opposing views on the matter so as far as any direct conversation between the two of us goes on this subject, we're done!

[Rowan Amore]

Apparently, women need to never leave home and just let the big strong alpha male protect us?    

I'm actually going to have to agree with Luna.  He must be trolling as no one could possibly be that ignorant.

[Codex Alpha]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

No Sir, not on my watch. It's not up to anyone to tell anybody else how to dress.  🤩

Who told anyone how to dress?

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

No Sir, not on my watch. It's not up to anyone to tell anybody else how to dress. Besides, what's "conservative" will differ based on a person's overall style and preference. My "conservatively dressed" still includes various types of leather, tattoos, piercings, pasties over my upper non-HD bits, harnesses, fishnet, and slinky boots up to my eyeballs. Your definition might mean something else entirely. Who knows.

See this is where vocabulary and comprehension matters.

The word 'conservative' has a very clear definition and it's use in context:

"marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners"

Fishnets, slinky boots, harnesses, piercings are not considered conservative.

It's not MY definition, it is a definition that is defined and agreed upon and accepted widely, as to facilitate proper communication between people, and to help understanding.

Not on my watch are you going to do that

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

But I'll tell ya what - if I feel like running around in the skimpiest of mini-micro bikinis, it's still not open season on me. I do that for *myself* - because let's face it, my avatar's got the cutest booty in all the land and sometimes I just want to admire my handiwork. 🤩

You go girl, you do you - but don't cry about unwanted attention based on your choices of how you present yourself,

and most importantly you are denying reality.

[Ceka Cianci]

To be fair, I think they are just talking about getting hit on by certain types..

Like the difference in attracting a hard leg or a gentlemen..

 

Although a hard leg will hit on anything with two legs.. hehehehe

[Codex Alpha]

7 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

My perception is that you feel out-numbered in these forums by people who don't agree with your point of view. Since you are out-numbered here, these other people tend feel free to "gang up on you" and tell you that they think your views are bad or even objectively wrong. It seems reasonable to me that under these circumstances you feel victimized and like you need to defend your minority views. Maybe you feel like you need to show a "balanced" perspective by presenting another side of the discourse?, but you can't really show that your opinion carries just as much weight at that of the majority just by posting the same views over and over again. Like it or not, your views are in the minority *on this board*. Being in the minority doesn't mean you have to leave. It doesn't mean you have to be silent. It does mean that shouting louder and more frequently is not going to win people over to your perspective. 

Take your own advice.