New Gacha Policy Discussion

[WarmAnimations Lisa]

17 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Oh I'm sure we do, for people who actually work hard that is.

Beyond the fact gachas allowed them to reap far more money from a given product than they ought to expect. The reality is that it is a system built on desire something that you can't have. Most "commons" on gachas are filler content, and even the rare items are usually not worth the asking price, whether it is quality, optimization or really just "what you are getting".

It only has to be good enough for the billboard.

again I have no personal like in play gachas and even as creator i always have avoid to make too much gachas and in fact i don't even keep them in my store... so I have zero interest in this buisness the point for me its respect from the work the creators put in it and they need some time to release what they have been working on! again im not asking that for my self! im just asking to have some respect from those who work hard to make it!

[Yhishara Cerise]

6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

For many of the events, the rule was that once the item was sold as a Gacha at the event, it must forever be Gacha-only, never to be sold as a regular store item.  And the creators agreed to those rules when they entered the Gacha events.  People bought those Gacha items with the knowledge that the item would forever be a Gacha.

Granted, once Gachas themselves get banned, then that does probably make those prior agreements invalid.  However, as Chic mentioned, changing the item to a regular store item is likely okay, but that doesn't really make it morally or ethically okay.

Well, I am pretty sure that they probably didn't see this coming when gacha was first introduced.  But the rules have changed now.  And it should be up to the creators how they want to proceed.   They should not be prohibited from putting those items on regular vendors for sale.  Especially while others will still be able to resell the actual gacha items.  I mean the people buying them from resellers aren't playing a gacha either they're doing a straight purchase of the item.  To say yes to that and no to the person that actually created the item someone else is now profiting from the sale of is just wrong.  I want to go to the actual creator and pay them for their time and creativity.  

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

All these people coming with ideas on how to replace the current gachas:
Keep in mind that 99% of the merchants use gachas to get way more money out of an item then they ever could with regular vendors. So if there is no extra L$ in it for them, they will not bother to step in.
Also: Gachas are not coded in a way so everybody has a fair chance to get a rare item for little money.
The 'good ones' are purely coded in a way to generate as much profit as possible.

So yeah, in the end be happy they will be gone. They are basically money pits (except for the gacha offering merchants).

All well and good and I am no fan of Gacha's myself but in the end I am a bit leery of seeing things taken out of circulation that is a big drawing card for SecondLife. Sounds like there is a fairly big contingent of Gacha people here whether creators, resellers or Rare collectors who might not be so quick to return inworld if their favorite pastime is no longer available.

[Malin Sabra]

3 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

Well, I am pretty sure that they probably didn't see this coming when gacha was first introduced.  But the rules have changed now.  And it should be up to the creators how they want to proceed.   They should not be prohibited from putting those items on regular vendors for sale.  Especially while others will still be able to resell the actual gacha items.  I mean the people buying them from resellers aren't playing a gacha either they're doing a straight purchase of the item.  To say yes to that and no to the person that actually created the item someone else is now profiting from the sale of is just wrong.  I want to go to the actual creator and pay them for their time and creativity.  

They aren't prohibited from selling by normal means.

[Vichonette Constantine]

Well this is unfortunate.  I love gachas.  I love the randomness of gachas and usually only play them when I love everything in them and don't care which item I get.  I'm sad that this happy form of entertainment is going away.  :(

[Kyrah Abattoir]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

All well and good and I am no fan of Gacha's myself but in the end I am a bit leery of seeing things taken out of circulation that is a big drawing card for SecondLife. Sounds like there is a fairly big contingent of Gacha people here whether creators, resellers or Rare collectors who might not be so quick to return inworld if their favorite pastime is no longer available.

But that's the case for every activity that ends up banned.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

All well and good and I am no fan of Gacha's myself but in the end I am a bit leery of seeing things taken out of circulation that is a big drawing card for SecondLife. Sounds like there is a fairly big contingent of Gacha people here whether creators, resellers or Rare collectors who might not be so quick to return inworld if their favorite pastime is no longer available.

We lost folks from SL when true gambling was banned, but others came to take their place.  If folks are only here to play Gacha or make money off of Gacha resell, they might leave, but in the end I don't think it will severely hurt SL.

Edited August 3, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Kyrah Abattoir said:

But that's the case for every activity that ends up banned.

True enough and how many regulars have we lost over the years as a result?

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

53 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

the real sploders were banned already yéars ago .. the current ones should NOT require a payment to join. If they do, it's a illegal one.

The last few times I've seen a sploder in a club were still pay to play, but everyone gets something back. Sometimes in events a club will have something in their description like "Hot Sploder Action" or similar.

[Kytteh Wytchwood]

On 8/2/2021 at 1:31 PM, PippaScott said:

so whats the difference between a gacha and a grab bag? its still a random item.  this is going to put a ton of people out of business and make shopping to give gifts much harder than it has to be.  I get that the global gaming laws are at issue but i guess my question is this.  what ARE we allowed to do? low cost, high traffic gacha vendors made things accessible that maybe a lot cant afford at 2 or 3 k each

 

You can join these mainstore sale events. Saturday Sale, Miix, Wanderlust Weekend, Happy Weekend and so on. All these prices are under 100L. Much better than a gacha as they are copy. You get to choose which color/ print you want as everything in that sale section is priced the same.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

7 minutes ago, WarmAnimations Lisa said:

again I have no personal like in play gachas and even as creator i always have avoid to make too much gachas and in fact i don't even keep them in my store... so I have zero interest in this buisness the point for me its respect from the work the creators put in it and they need some time to release what they have been working on! again im not asking that for my self! im just asking to have some respect from those who work hard to make it!

Several already announced they would keep their gachas up until the deadline. They appear to have plenty of time.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kyrah Abattoir

[JuriTreat]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

True enough and how many regulars have we lost over the years as a result?

Plenty, but the user base doesn't get to dictate the laws of nations. So while I am not surprised this conversation is 60 pages long, nothing anyone has to say here is going to reverse this.

The only reason they would change this now, is because there is outside pressure to do so.

Edited August 3, 2021 by JuriTreat

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

2 minutes ago, Vichonette Constantine said:

Well this is unfortunate.  I love gachas.  I love the randomness of gachas and usually only play them when I love everything in them and don't care which item I get.  I'm sad that this happy form of entertainment is going away. 

They're not really entertainment --- they're there cause the creators know they know human nature will dump a lot of Lindens in the stupid things.

[Lark Lemongrass]

6 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Yeah when it first started out. Now that is not the case. When Gachas first started out in SL, you would get a trinket within the same specs, but different colour. Nowadays, it has become everything is different. Especially when you factor in, that today people were literally selling homes and all the interior and exterior decor. I would beg to differ that it is the same as that. At least with a gumball machine, I knew I was getting a gumball that was the same size and weight, but a different colour. 

My approach has been, if I would be happy with at least half the items shown in the list, then I play the gacha. If more than half of them are items I have no interest in, I don't play. (I might look for an item I want on the Marketplace instead). But I wouldn't ever play a gacha machine to get a house or some other huge rare item... I'd probably end up with 187 trash cans and candles before the machine coughed up a house.  

[NightEyes Fitzcarraldo]

As a potential sticking point, that version of a vendor still forces a purchase or a randomized item before it will offer a new randomized item... HOWEVER...

If you were to have a timer, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever, enough of an inconvenience, where after that time expires the vendor will re-roll the offering, but a purchase of that item re-rolls it NOW, then you can create that effect with no forced purchase AND trigger impulse buying mechanisms.

If 10 people are watching the vendor, and the vendor only locks to the person who made the purchase for 30 seconds, they will have 30 seconds to decide if they want it or not before someone else could theoretically swoop in to buy it from under them. This removes the forced purchase of an RNG product issue, triggers impulse buy mindset, and could incentivize sim traffic of people idling near machines to wait for the next offering... For people who did want to just buy 50 of them until they get the one they want, that is still an option, but all forced RNG purchasing is removed by the addition of a timer.

 

I don't script vendors, and cannot push this model to the market if I wanted to, buy as the person offering the idea I freely stamp it as open source variation on the model so anyone else who wants can tackle the idea and noone can claim it was their idea and someone stole it.

[Kytteh Wytchwood]

1 minute ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

The last few times I've seen a sploder in a club were still pay to play, but everyone gets something back. Sometimes in events a club will have something in their description like "Hot Sploder Action" or similar.

The sploders should make the last person who pays into the sploder, the winner. That is the legal way to do it, according to the TOS. Not these lucky egg sploders where everyone is a winner. That makes it a game, to see who can be the last bidder. Only one winner, not paying out to everyone who put in money.

[JadusBatmanglij]

2 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Common good > Individual

I don't think LL ever make an argument for common good here. If they go that way, it could be on shaky grounds as the amount of people participate in gacha is very large, money going into it and into reselling market is also very large, and the common good here is for people to continue to have fun and decide how and when to spend their own money. (True also for those who decide this to be addictive and decide not to spend the money)   Also, I do never want to give LL the power to decide what is 'good' for me. (Gov't is another case but off topic), nor I think LL is approaching it that way.  I do see that they are responsible business trying to operate lawfully while making a profit for providing service to customers.

I think the issue is which specific gov't law from which countries that we must be complied with and what exactly the law said.

[Sid Nagy]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

All well and good and I am no fan of Gacha's myself but in the end I am a bit leery of seeing things taken out of circulation that is a big drawing card for SecondLife. Sounds like there is a fairly big contingent of Gacha people here whether creators, resellers or Rare collectors who might not be so quick to return inworld if their favorite pastime is no longer available.

Well, It is a shame for everyone who loves to take a chance\ gamble. I agree with that.
But in the end LL will have very little other choice than to apply to new rules\regulations\laws in a RL world where they make their money.
So gachas have to go.

[VergilISparda]

6 hours ago, Drakkhis said:

Ok I have the Solution to the Gatcha Problem, I created a New Gitcha Vendor where you buy what you see, and then the Next Item for sale is Random

Second Life Marketplace - DFC Gitcha Machine Vendor

Call this whatever you want, this is just a trick to do the same thing in another way. It doesn't change that you pay and there is a random outcome offering a chance to see if the next item is rare/wanted/whatever. Only this time you see one step further, but it's the same process. you all correct me if I'm wrong... And like @Lucia Nightfire said, hold your horses until we have the correct information before creating/buying such devices.

[JuriTreat]

3 minutes ago, NightEyes Fitzcarraldo said:

As a potential sticking point, that version of a vendor still forces a purchase or a randomized item before it will offer a new randomized item... HOWEVER...

If you were to have a timer, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever, enough of an inconvenience, where after that time expires the vendor will re-roll the offering, but a purchase of that item re-rolls it NOW, then you can create that effect with no forced purchase AND trigger impulse buying mechanisms.

If 10 people are watching the vendor, and the vendor only locks to the person who made the purchase for 30 seconds, they will have 30 seconds to decide if they want it or not before someone else could theoretically swoop in to buy it from under them. This removes the forced purchase of an RNG product issue, triggers impulse buy mindset, and could incentivize sim traffic of people idling near machines to wait for the next offering... For people who did want to just buy 50 of them until they get the one they want, that is still an option, but all forced RNG purchasing is removed by the addition of a timer.

 

I don't script vendors, and cannot push this model to the market if I wanted to, buy as the person offering the idea I freely stamp it as open source variation on the model so anyone else who wants can tackle the idea and noone can claim it was their idea and someone stole it.

 

It just feels like everyone is trying to come up with some idea that is essentially the same thing. Just with more layers to try and hide what it is. I really don't think this will fly.

Edited August 3, 2021 by JuriTreat

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

Well, It is a shame for everyone who loves to take a chance\ gamble. I agree with that.
But in the end LL will have very little other choice than to apply to new rules\regulations\laws in a RL world where they make their money.
So gachas have to go.

I didn't think there was an actual rules\regulations\law yet in place but it is LL hedging their bets. ^^

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

13 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Except LL has not yet officially stated whether this method will be accepted/allowed or not.

Hopefully Linden Lab will nip it in the bud before those go wide  spread.

[Kytteh Wytchwood]

15 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Except LL has not yet officially stated whether this method will be accepted/allowed or not.

I love that store! This is one store I will be sad to see the gachas go away. Then again, I also root for the creator and their pocket. They really should be priced very high. You get uv/shadow maps, etc,  and an applier kit to create your own textures. Who has ever gotten a full modified product in a gacha? Said no one ever.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kytteh Wytchwood
misspelling

[Sweecahcahche Ah]

On 8/2/2021 at 6:27 PM, Anabelle Marquis said:

can we break apart our gachas and sell regularly? I don't see why not

 It would be nice if Creators of the Gachas would allow you to buy your missing Gacha Prizes to complete sets. They are going to lose money from having to remove them, so if they were to sell each Gacha Prize for the cost of a Single Play on the Gacha at least then everyone would benefit without being too greedy trying to sell high to make fast money off of previous loyal customers. 🐸 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Sweecahcahche Ah

[Kyrah Abattoir]

5 minutes ago, JadusBatmanglij said:

I don't think LL ever make an argument for common good here. If they go that way, it could be on shaky grounds as the amount of people participate in gacha is very large, money going into it and into reselling market is also very large, and the common good here is for people to continue to have fun and decide how and when to spend their own money. (True also for those who decide this to be addictive and decide not to spend the money)   Also, I do never want to give LL the power to decide what is 'good' for me. (Gov't is another case but off topic), nor I think LL is approaching it that way.  I do see that they are responsible business trying to operate lawfully while making a profit for providing service to customers.

I think the issue is which specific gov't law from which countries that we must be complied with and what exactly the law said.

I was refering to the person crying about the government's presence in their life.