New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Tetsuryu Vlodovic]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I thought someone had said that it was okay if you put money in as long as you are guaranteed to always get back at least what you paid in, but maybe get back more.  

I don't think that's mathematically possible.

[JuriTreat]

25 minutes ago, Kyau Brodie said:

The policy is banning gachas in their current format where you receive a random item for your payment.

Several creators are already working on a solution to offer a new gacha alternative that shows you what you are getting for your payment. Then the machine offers a new item for sale. This should be allowed under the new policy.

https://gyazo.com/01e167001234bf29857c7522ebdb6e89

However, if the policy is interpreted or expanded as you are not allowed to take payment for an item that triggers a random outcome then this type of vendor would not be allowed. But then breedables would fall under this policy because the traits generated are a random outcome after purchase.

We anxiously await the FAQ for answers. 

Yeah that sounds like it would likely get the legs clipped out from under it. Wouldn't go scripting that just yet.

EDIT - Aren't you just gambling to see the next item then? The more I think about it, the more it sounds like the same thing.

Edited August 3, 2021 by JuriTreat
Thoughts...

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 minute ago, Tetsuryu Vlodovic said:

100% this

I'd gladly pay the extra to get a copy version of some of the stuff, especially when it's meant to be rezzed rather than worn so you can't just make a dozen shortcuts for every instance you want to use it in.

 

While I haven't bought many gachas over the years, I always did prefer the creators that would exchange my No-Copy/Transfer item for a Copy/No-Transfer version.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, Tetsuryu Vlodovic said:

I don't think that's mathematically possible.

It is when the sploder owner adds money to the pot.  The sploder owner does it to draw people to their event/club/etc... to increase their traffic.

My understanding is everybody except one person gets back what they paid in and one person gets the big pot that has what the owner put in.

Edited August 3, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Rowan Amore]

46 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

What is stopping the same people from selling the items directly instead of in a gacha? All kinds of creators manage to sell their content without resorting to using gachas.

This right here ^^^^^

[Yhishara Cerise]

7 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I don't typically buy gachas, but I don't agree with the creators putting any current gachas out for regular sale.  People that have already bought the items as gachas, bought them under the condition that they were only available via the gacha or resell.  Putting the existing gacha items out for regular sale seems like a bait-and-switch type tactic -- not exactly, but similar - and possibly devalues the resale market on the items.

I personally think that any existing gacha should always stay only available via gacha machines until the end of Aug and only available via resell after the gacha machine is pulled.  

I disagree.  After the cut off date, the creator should have every right to put it for offer in their stores.  It is their item that they created and they should have say in where it gets sold and who receives profit from it.  It will be no different than now where places like Nutmeg offered the full set including exclusives or VIP rewards for sale as an alternative to playing the machine.    I think your idea offers too much control to gacha resellers over distribution of an item that is not even theirs.   It simply opens the door for people with the real life financial means to stockpile a huge amount of highly sought after gacha prizes and corner the market - taking the profit away from the person who should be getting the financial rewards for their time and creative talent. 

 

[Marianne Little]

9 minutes ago, Nadi Vemo said:

Hello. since i saw my vendor here lately, i would like to explain how it works.

Basically vendor shows one item to buy, it will only change that item when someone pays for it, and it will pick random new item from the list, vendor of course will lock to person who is currently using it so it will not allow any prize sniping. So that if a person decided to play longer next prize will always be their to pick first. it can also show what will come next, or it can be turned off to just show one item currently for sale.

i did that prototype because i would really like to know if that will be ok to use. textures in that prototype are just reused from my old vendor, they will have to be changed in the final version of course.

at the end person who pays the vendor ALWAYS know what they will get for that money. 

at the end i would like to say i'm doing gachas just cause it's a way to sell more expensive stuff for cheap, i spend 2-3 months on every gacha i do, and those items are being sold for 100L at the events. and it really brings me joy when someone who dont have a lot of money can buy my mount or avatar for that price, even if they simply didn't get the blue one they really wanted, i can see they really enjoy those items.  i value every single common item in my gachas more than it cost to pull. 

 

best regards 

Nadi Vemo

"Random" goes directly against this in the blog announcement:

"We will continue to allow any sales where a payment is given for a known item, which means that items that had been purchased as “gacha” will be allowed to be re-sold as long as the buyer knows in advance the item and quantity they will receive. We will, of course, still allow fatpacks, and any other currently-allowed distribution mechanisms."

If I want a purple dragon and get a random color, it is not known to me. I have to buy again in the hope to get the purple one. And again... and again.... just as gacha works. 

[Kitty Barnett]

8 minutes ago, Nadi Vemo said:

Basically vendor shows one item to buy, it will only change that item when someone pays for it, and it will pick random new item from the list, vendor of course will lock to person who is currently using it so it will not allow any prize sniping. So that if a person decided to play longer next prize will always be their to pick first. it can also show what will come next, or it can be turned off to just show one item currently for sale.

You're paying for the item *and* the chance of a lucky roll after payment has been received. If the next roll did not have intrinsic value there wouldn't be any need to (temporarily) lock it to the last person to pay the "slot machine".

(In addition you even called the result of the random roll a 'prize')

[Kyau Brodie]

1 minute ago, Marianne Little said:

"Random" goes directly against this in the blog announcement:

"We will continue to allow any sales where a payment is given for a known item, which means that items that had been purchased as “gacha” will be allowed to be re-sold as long as the buyer knows in advance the item and quantity they will receive. We will, of course, still allow fatpacks, and any other currently-allowed distribution mechanisms."

If I want a purple dragon and get a random color, it is not known to me. I have to buy again in the hope to get the purple one. And again... and again.... just as gacha works. 

You are not getting a random color. You are getting the color shown. The next one might be purple or green or blue  But the one shows is the one you are paying for and will receive.

[Sukubia Scarmon]

8 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Creators had to agree that they would only sell the gachas for the event, and then never again, or as ordinary sales.

I saw @Chic Aeonpost this tens and tens of pages ago. I can not understand that any creators actually did this, since the stores I visit has older gacha machines up from events years ago. 

But if it was such an agreement, is it not dead now since gacha is not allowed anymore? And what was the "punishment" for breaking the role of not selling gachas after an event? Be banned from the event in the future? It will be no more gacha events now, so is the agreement worth anything?

I would like to see the gacha items sold as ordinary goods, instead of letting them die.

As far as I understood it, the "rule" was just that they could not sell the items from the event(s) as anything but gachas. Somebody else chimed in that apparently, some of the eventcreators already let go of that rule now,  since otherwise the creators of those gachas could not sell them anymore at all.

[Rowan Amore]

17 minutes ago, Nadi Vemo said:

Hello. since i saw my vendor here lately, i would like to explain how it works.

Basically vendor shows one item to buy, it will only change that item when someone pays for it, and it will pick random new item from the list, vendor of course will lock to person who is currently using it so it will not allow any prize sniping. So that if a person decided to play longer next prize will always be their to pick first. it can also show what will come next, or it can be turned off to just show one item currently for sale.

i did that prototype because i would really like to know if that will be ok to use. textures in that prototype are just reused from my old vendor, they will have to be changed in the final version of course.

at the end person who pays the vendor ALWAYS know what they will get for that money. 

at the end i would like to say i'm doing gachas just cause it's a way to sell more expensive stuff for cheap, i spend 2-3 months on every gacha i do, and those items are being sold for 100L at the events. and it really brings me joy when someone who dont have a lot of money can buy my mount or avatar for that price, even if they simply didn't get the blue one they really wanted, i can see they really enjoy those items.  i value every single common item in my gachas more than it cost to pull. 

 

best regards 

Nadi Vemo

Somewhat the same as lucky chairs.  Stand around waiting for someone to buy that item you DON'T want in hopes that the one you DO want isn't grabbed by the 58349 other people waiting to get the rare.   I can see this going wrong in so many ways.

ETA..And what's the point?  Why not just sell them outright?  Other people have mentioned this idea and frankly, it's kind of silly.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

I disagree.  After the cut off date, the creator should have every right to put it for offer in their stores.  It is their item that they created and they should have say in where it gets sold and who receives profit from it.  It will be no different than now where places like Nutmeg offered the full set including exclusives or VIP rewards for sale as an alternative to playing the machine.    I think your idea offers too much control to gacha resellers over distribution of an item that is not even theirs.   It simply opens the door for people with the real life financial means to stockpile a huge amount of highly sought after gacha prizes and corner the market - taking the profit away from the person who should be getting the financial rewards for their time and creative talent. 

 

The original creator put it up as a gacha and should accept that it will be a gamble whether it will provide a bigger payback then if it was just put up normal? The risk should be both ways.

[Mac Takeda]

This is long overdue. Thank you LL! 

[Yhishara Cerise]

18 minutes ago, Nadi Vemo said:

Hello. since i saw my vendor here lately, i would like to explain how it works.

Basically vendor shows one item to buy, it will only change that item when someone pays for it, and it will pick random new item from the list, vendor of course will lock to person who is currently using it so it will not allow any prize sniping. So that if a person decided to play longer next prize will always be their to pick first. it can also show what will come next, or it can be turned off to just show one item currently for sale.

i did that prototype because i would really like to know if that will be ok to use. textures in that prototype are just reused from my old vendor, they will have to be changed in the final version of course.

at the end person who pays the vendor ALWAYS know what they will get for that money. 

at the end i would like to say i'm doing gachas just cause it's a way to sell more expensive stuff for cheap, i spend 2-3 months on every gacha i do, and those items are being sold for 100L at the events. and it really brings me joy when someone who dont have a lot of money can buy my mount or avatar for that price, even if they simply didn't get the blue one they really wanted, i can see they really enjoy those items.  i value every single common item in my gachas more than it cost to pull. 

 

best regards 

Nadi Vemo

So essentially a Lucky Board but one you pay when it gets to the prize you want?

[Marianne Little]

3 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

I disagree.  After the cut off date, the creator should have every right to put it for offer in their stores.  It is their item that they created and they should have say in where it gets sold and who receives profit from it.  It will be no different than now where places like Nutmeg offered the full set including exclusives or VIP rewards for sale as an alternative to playing the machine.    I think your idea offers too much control to gacha resellers over distribution of an item that is not even theirs.   It simply opens the door for people with the real life financial means to stockpile a huge amount of highly sought after gacha prizes and corner the market - taking the profit away from the person who should be getting the financial rewards for their time and creative talent. 

 

Yes, especially if the pull price is lowered the last month. Gacha resellers can buy up as much as they can afford and try to resell it for much more. Resellers always take a risk, maybe the things they get will not sell for the price they offer.

 

2 minutes ago, Kyau Brodie said:

You are not getting a random color. You are getting the color shown. The next one might be purple or green or blue  But the one shows is the one you are paying for and will receive.

Ah. But how is that different from setting up ordinary vendors? It will be annoying for me to stand and wait, while I could have paid and be on my merry way.

How long will the vendor show that item, if nobody else buys it? Will it be a rotation? I can not know how long I have to wait.

This would only work for Lucky chairs where people get free stuff. I would not bother. My time in SL is limited.

[Shadowed Luik]

5 minutes ago, Yhishara Cerise said:

I disagree.  After the cut off date, the creator should have every right to put it for offer in their stores.  It is their item that they created and they should have say in where it gets sold and who receives profit from it.  It will be no different than now where places like Nutmeg offered the full set including exclusives or VIP rewards for sale as an alternative to playing the machine.    I think your idea offers too much control to gacha resellers over distribution of an item that is not even theirs.   It simply opens the door for people with the real life financial means to stockpile a huge amount of highly sought after gacha prizes and corner the market - taking the profit away from the person who should be getting the financial rewards for their time and creative talent. 

 

I'm not sure I agree that resellers take profit away from the creator. Even if you have limitless linden to spend and stockpile 200 of whatever item you think you can sell for a nice profit, the creator is still being paid for those 200 items. They set the original gacha price, what difference is it if 1 person pays the asked for price 200 times or 200 people each pay it once?  I could understand protecting the pricing a bit more if there was a cap as to how much over pull price items can be resold, but again - regardless of how the resale goes, the original price asked for by the creator is being paid for each item. They are getting exactly what they wanted.

[Kyau Brodie]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Somewhat the same as lucky chairs.  Stand around waiting for someone to buy that item you DON'T want in hopes that the one you DO want isn't grabbed by the 58349 other people waiting to get the rare.   I can see this going wrong in so many ways.

No, it's locked to the person using it. So no one else can get the item until that person is done with the machine.

[Elena Blossom]

19 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

personally think that any existing gacha should always stay only available via gacha machines until the end of Aug and only available via resell after the gacha machine is pulled.  

Of course we all have different opinions on the matter, but there are many beautiful and great quality out there, and I wouldnt want to miss them, not just decor but buildings.

I usually collect gachas from my fav stores, that they will exchange for copy sets. Now, it will be easier for them to get these collections.

I personally think removing gachas will be better in the long run

[Yhishara Cerise]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The original creator put it up as a gacha and should accept that it will be a gamble whether it will provide a bigger payback then if it was just put up normal? The risk should be both ways.

Yes but that was under the old rules where the creator could put up the gacha machine in their main store after the event was over.  I always preferred to pay the actual creator than a reseller.  Taking that option away then it only profit resellers rather than the original creator.   That isn't fair because they are profiting on someone else's creative work who, if some suggest here - would be blocked from offering it in their main stores even as a normal purchase after the event is over.  That crosses a line and says "We can profit from your work but you can not." 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Yhishara Cerise

[Sukubia Scarmon]

Okay, locked vendors are nice and stuff, but I doubt that's what the majority will be doing. Imagine a new event full with those vendors. One person at a time until they're done? That's gonna be problematic. Those vendors for really popular gachas? Problematic. I'm not going to stand and wait in a full store just to have a chance of giving the creator my money, lol.

[Alwin Alcott]

19 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I thought someone had said that it was okay if you put money in as long as you are guaranteed to always get back at least what you paid in, but maybe get back more.  

I've no clue, because I have never participated in sploders.

yes that too.. but thought.. i cán be wrong (! i say this too often...).. also free participation.
 

[WarmAnimations Lisa]

7 hours ago, yestothis said:

Nothing prevents them from selling those products directly now 

you probably have no idea how much work they put on make this stuff for real! as I say im not my self a fan of this but at last I have some respect from those who work hard to make it possible!

[Kyau Brodie]

1 minute ago, Marianne Little said:

Yes, especially if the pull price is lowered the last month. Gacha resellers can buy up as much as they can afford and try to resell it for much more. Resellers always take a risk, maybe the things they get will not sell for the price they offer.

 

Ah. But how is that different from setting up ordinary vendors? It will be annoying for me to stand and wait, while I could have paid and be on my merry way.

How long will the vendor show that item, if nobody else buys it? Will it be a rotation? I can not know how long I have to wait.

This would only work for Lucky chairs where people get free stuff. I would not bother. My time in SL is limited.

Or you could just buy the one you don't want and hope the next one is the one you do want. It's the same way people stand around and dump money into a gacha now, but you just see the next item to be received before you pay. The only wait would be having to wait for the machine. Which is understandable, you can leave and come back when its available.

[Yhishara Cerise]

5 minutes ago, Shadowed Luik said:

I'm not sure I agree that resellers take profit away from the creator. Even if you have limitless linden to spend and stockpile 200 of whatever item you think you can sell for a nice profit, the creator is still being paid for those 200 items. They set the original gacha price, what difference is it if 1 person pays the asked for price 200 times or 200 people each pay it once?  I could understand protecting the pricing a bit more if there was a cap as to how much over pull price items can be resold, but again - regardless of how the resale goes, the original price asked for by the creator is being paid for each item. They are getting exactly what they wanted.

The suggestion was that the original creator should not be allowed to offer what would have been gacha prizes for regular purchase in their stores once these changes go live.  If you created something and then Linden Labs made a change that made it a gaming violation for you to sell your own creative work but gave other people the right to sell it and make a profit off it - wouldn't you have an issue with that? 

[Marianne Little]

13 minutes ago, Kyau Brodie said:

You are not getting a random color. You are getting the color shown. The next one might be purple or green or blue  But the one shows is the one you are paying for and will receive.

And what happens if the person before me has locked the vendor, but is not buying because he is a jerk?

The vendor stay locked on that person until ___ minutes? Then the color change. I do not want that color. Nobody click the vendor. It changes to a new color after ___ minutes. I wait until the color I want comes up again. But if I was unlucky and looked away, the jerk lock the vendor again.

You don't think such griefers would have fun with such vendors? Especially in an event with lots of people.