New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Chic Aeon]

8 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

What I am dying to find out is how those SL stores, which are either completely or largely gachas, will retool (e.g. Jian pets, Hideki home decor, Garbaggio dolls). Gachas make up a significant part of their business, and they have dozens and dozens of gachas in their stores for which they abruptly need to find alternative sales mechanisms. I am sure some of them will just decide to shut down completely, rather than bother to do all this work. This is going to have spin-off effects on the SL economy.
 

I have been chatting with one gallery owner who sold much of his artwork and sculpture via gacha machines. He tells me he doesn’t see how he will be able to meet his tier with regular sales, and he is seriously pondering packing up and leaving Second Life, which makes me sad. 

I didn't read most of this thread but came back to clarify a comment for Marianne, which I admit I worded confusingly.  

 

I can only speak for myself, but I made most of my gacha money DURING the events or selling the fatpacks inworld or on the Marketplace, not so much folks playing randomly inworld.   

 

Each time we have a major historical upheaval event (and I am doing a meme on your list of 20 by the way - it's been fun) we lose people. We WILL lose people and I am sure The Lab knows this.  But as you reposted a comment from social media, gacha sellers have already made tons of money (or the good creators of gachas anyway).   

 

The writing has been on the wall for years now; this is NOT unexpected unless you had your head in the sand OR just wanted to pretend it wasn't happening.   Folks that have currently  been working on gacha collections can STILL sell those items -- just as regular goods, not gachas.  It isn't that hard to change some permissions; it is more difficult to change your mindset.  

 

They will adapt or not.  We have seen this for almost two decades -- over and over in different renditions on the theme.   After all, I'm still here after Tilia *wink*; just no money going into my real life bank account. 

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

1 hour ago, WarmAnimations Lisa said:

you probably have no idea how much work they put on make this stuff for real! as I say im not my self a fan of this but at last I have some respect from those who work hard to make it possible!

All of us who create and sell stuff in SL do.

A creator should be charging a price that they feel is worth the effort it takes to create it (and list it). If they want to make lost leaders to get you to their place, that's their choice.

I don't, myself, charge what my real time is worth. I charge around $0.75 an hour for my real world, four decades of experience, because I want people to have my original goods in their homes, and I do it because I love doing it. If I felt it was "work" I'd never do it for that price. No one is going to pay me in Lindens the equivalent of the many thousands that one of my larger works sells for, for a virtual work (but if you would, please IM me in world like right now!!!!  )

But to list an item in the Marketplace and put a sign in your store showing your new item takes 10 minutes or less. I've done it 100 times in the past 6 months. Gacha vendors can easily put the items up for sale individually, as many others have said, instead of relying on folks who are willing who pump Lindens over and over until they finally get that 50L sweater in pink.

That's way easier than trying to skirt the spirit of the upcoming ban.

Yes, I know the consumer can technically choose not to do play the gacha game, but the draw of that pink sweater is often a psychological trick to manipulate the buyer into spending more than they had to (playing that tension of need versus want, the "just one more pull" trick), besides, if a vendor is relying on that tactic to sell goods and turn a profit, they're not really good at their job ..... That's the issue with gachas. 

[Kytteh Wytchwood]

Just now, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Sometimes there is NOT an option to buy from a regular vendor. I've seen that a few times.

Right, that is unfortunate. I have never understood the point of that. Gachas at an event and not at your mainstore at the same time, are because of the event rules, to only sell during their round.

When it ends, you can put it back up in your mainstore. They think that making an item more elusive, hypes it up to rack in sales.

What people really want is mass quantity. To always be available at the mainstore. 

Don't want old products in your store? Put them on the marketplace.

Or they can do a limited edition in their mainstore, selling a certain amount of copies. 

It will be copy/ no transfer and you can always get a redelivery if you lost it in your inventory.

Creators want to stand out and be "unique" for their customers. You can be unique on how you create your shape, style of hair, type of skin. That all makes a difference. You could meet another person wearing the same clothes but the style of everything else they wear can be completely different.

I think people worry too much about being the same. It's only a virtual world. Take it as a compliment, be happy you met someone who enjoys what you like.

[Infierna Bloodrose]

So glad to see the end of the gachas!  FINALLY!

 It will finally be nice to  be able to buy an entire outfit or set and just be able to buy it outright without plugging  Lindens endlessly into a machine or scouring the marketplace for missing pieces.  I think the whole gacha sales idea was a huge rip off  for the SL buyer. Great for the creator. Horrid for the buyer. It also promoted big trouble for people with even slight gambling addiction tendencies. I saw so many friends  run into trouble with this.

 Gacha wasn't a fun  harmless bubble gum machine where you got a happy surprise for 50 Linden. It was imply a way to entice people to stand there and spend more money than necessary (and hopefully even empty their wallet toward the endless carrot on a stick of THE ULTRA RARES). 

 

Seriously doing the happy dance. R.I.P gacha. Thank You LL♥

 

[Malin Sabra]

3 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

 It isn't that hard to change some permissions; it is more difficult to change your mindset.  

They don't even need to change permissions. Could still keep them no copy so it can be traded etc.

[Cristiano Midnight]

1 hour ago, Pixels Sideways said:

Before gachas became a way creators could set aside some of their best and most desirable merchandise and then stuff the merch into slot machines, merchants did just fine selling items to residents who purchased a specific item and did not have to accrue 50 things they didn't want. 

I've always felt gachas should have had a regular vendor beside then from which you could purchase copy/mod items for 2-3x the gacha price,  

It's also risky to build a livelihood on an exclusive island like Second Life that could one day go poof.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is always what pissed me off about gachas and why I avoided them. If people want to play gachas for a chance at getting the item cheaply, fine. However, the item should also be purchasable directly at a set price. I don't want to gamble on getting the one thing I want from the set. Very few gacha vendors also offer the ability to just buy the items outright.

With SL's inventory system being what it is, I also avoid no copy items as much as possible.  I have no sympathy for this predatory system going away. Adapt or die as with anything.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Cristiano Midnight

[Pussycat Catnap]

8 minutes ago, Aria Fae said:

I love how everyone's coming up with new ideas .... that still use payment for a random item chance.....

You can put lipstick on a pig and call it a horse, but it's still a pig..... 

Wouldn't that just make it a Fabulous Pig?

 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

4 minutes ago, Infierna Bloodrose said:

So glad to see the end of the gachas!  FINALLY!

 It will finally be nice to  be able to buy an entire outfit or set and just be able to buy it outright without plugging  Lindens endlessly into a machine or scouring the marketplace for missing pieces.  I think the whole gacha sales idea was a huge rip off  for the SL buyer. Great for the creator. Horrid for the buyer. It also promoted big trouble for people with even slight gambling addiction tendencies. I saw so many friends  run into trouble with this.

 Gacha wasn't a fun  harmless bubble gum machine where you got a happy surprise for 50 Linden. It was imply a way to entice people to stand there and spend more money than necessary (and hopefully even empty their wallet toward the endless carrot on a stick of THE ULTRA RARES). 

 

Seriously doing the happy dance. R.I.P gacha. Thank You LL♥

 

My exact feelings. You hit the nail on the head. I'll gladly rent a bulldozer to push all the gachas into a landfill to join the old Atari ET game cartridges. Best move Linden Lab has ever made.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

My exact feelings. You hit the nail on the head. I'll gladly rent a bulldozer to push all the gachas into a landfill to join the old Atari ET game cartridges. Best move Linden Lab has ever made.

I still don't own an ET cart

[Skylar Minotaur]

As a mesh creator and store co-owner I really think that the removal of gacha won't hurt anything. These people can just sell the items individually at a set price and a lot of stores that did do gacha were doing retail long before gacha came along. Just change your practices and take the gambling out. Also anyone whos been here for 10 years or more knows that this new rule is not going to hurt SL at all. People come and go all the time.

[Cain Maven]

13 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

It isn't that hard to change some permissions; it is more difficult to change your mindset.  

That sums it up perfectly. Thank you.

[Skylar Minotaur]

5 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

My exact feelings. You hit the nail on the head. I'll gladly rent a bulldozer to push all the gachas into a landfill to join the old Atari ET game cartridges. Best move Linden Lab has ever made.

Lets just hope no one reveals the landfill location so the detoriating gacha items can be resold on ebay....hahahahhaha

[Sammy Huntsman]

18 minutes ago, Kytteh Wytchwood said:

It's not gambling. You know that what you want, will not be given to you. You know you will get one of the prizes shown. This means you are comfortable with getting anything shown on the gacha poster, because you like what is shown. You may also love the creator's products, having bought many of their products that are not in gacha machines. 

There is always the option to buy from a regular vendor in their mainstore. It's not like the store only has gachas.

Also I had added more information as an edit to my post but then got a rl call and had to pause my typing. It's there now if you want to go back to it.

Yes Gacha's model is a game of chance. Just cause you see it on the poster, does not mean you will get it right away. There is a huge chance of you not getting it, dependent on a few factors, how many items there are, what the pull rate for that item is. I don't know why we are going around in circles. But Gachas is a gambling mechanism. Just made to not look like one, cause you win something everytime. That and it teeters on the legal line. That all being said, some vendors offer you the choice of buying the full fatpack, not all. 

[Emilie Muggins]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

True enough and how many regulars have we lost over the years as a result?

and how many times did we have the OMG this is going to kill SL drama ?  It is still there. SL has been there for 18 years ? of course people come and go 

[Katherine Heartsong]

38 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

I have been chatting with one gallery owner who sold much of his artwork and sculpture via gacha machines. He tells me he doesn’t see how he will be able to meet his tier with regular sales, and he is seriously pondering packing up and leaving Second Life, which makes me sad. 

I am an artist IRL and I know dozens (hundreds?) of gallery owners.

Who sells random art? Who'd buy randomized art? That's just really utterly strange to me. (Coming from the real world here where objects are one of a kind.)

There it is on my gallery wall, each one a single object. Like it or not, buy it or not. But gacha art? Like pay me and I'll toss you a random painting, hope you like it?

Weird. But if that floats a buyer's boat, their choice.

[Coffee Pancake]

Gachas are only profitable because they trigger compulsive spending - just one more go.. maybe this time .. 

This mistake I see here a lot from customers and creators is that the rare is the the desired item. The filler junk has value too - especially for decorative items.

People either wanted the rare OR a couple of specific bits of thematic fluff.

 

[Skell Dagger]

47 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

What I am dying to find out is how those SL stores, which are either completely or largely gachas, will retool (e.g. Jian pets, Hideki home decor, Garbaggio dolls). Gachas make up a significant part of their business, and they have dozens and dozens of gachas in their stores for which they abruptly need to find alternative sales mechanisms. I am sure some of them will just decide to shut down completely, rather than bother to do all this work. This is going to have spin-off effects on the SL economy.

Jian responded yesterday in a blog post, here.

"As previously announced on our blog, we are already in the process of making all of our gachas into fatpacks available as copy / no transfer product collections.

"We will be expediting this process and making all of our gacha collections available as fatpack collections to the best of our ability before the 30-day grace period ends on September 1st."

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Gachas are only profitable because they trigger compulsive spending - just one more go.. maybe this time .. 

This mistake I see here a lot from customers and creators is that the rare is the the desired item. The filler junk has value too - especially for decorative items.

People either wanted the rare OR a couple of specific bits of thematic fluff.

 

I always have been pretty lucky ( played a few times in the past)... Until that time I wanted a companion dog... Spent 4,7k for it and you know what? I hated the darn thing when I rezzed it lol. Never played gacha ever again and will not, even if they are all at 1LS on the last day

[Badpixie Nightfire]

As someone who plays gacha a lot and I mean a lot, I feel that this decision to end gacha machines is not the right decision.  From what I have read , the gacha machines do not clearly show what you are playing for. I must argue that that is untrue. If you go to any event such as the Arcade, the loot box, and the Epiphany, ALL gacha machines CLEARLY post the prizes within those machines. It is not really a game of chance, since you are getting SOMETHING for your money and something from the set, unlike those other gaming machines like No Devil and Zyngo, where you put in your money and most of the time get nothing at all. I have heard people bitching about gacha machines and have thought to myself that they have not played the right machines or have only played once or twice. I feel that if the decision stands to end ALL gacha, they should also stop those other gaming machines.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Badpixie Nightfire
I was searching to see whether or not gacha was not legal and found this to support what I was trying to say.... https://www.quora.com/Are-gacha-games-considered-gambling?top_ans=276544060

[StephanieBell]

1 hour ago, Skylar Minotaur said:

 Gacha has totally trashed the search function in marketplace because instead of finding what your looking for you get 1000's of worthless gacha resale items instead.

I would say that it's not gacha that has trashed the search function in MP as much as MP vendors not adhering to and/or understanding to how key words search work. 

[Trinity Blakewell]

 re: the Gumball comparison: I remember a couple of years ago that Trompe L'Oeil did a Gacha that had different colors of beach cottages or something similar. No rates, so items that were definitely of less value, just different colors. I thought that was really refreshing.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Trinity1776

[Kytteh Wytchwood]

I am in Flickr, adding my new releases to other Flickr groups I wasn't a member of. I see that a store is taking advantage of the coming ban. They are now offering a very, very cheap gacha sale, and that some gachas may be available as fatpacks, with a 50% discount. 

There is the lure to bring you to their store. You "may" find something is offered as a gacha fatpack at 50% off, or you may not. LOL

Why even resort to that type of behavior? They could have stated how many discounted gacha fatpacks are available with the numerical amount. 

*shakes head*

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kytteh Wytchwood
typing errors

[Katherine Heartsong]

2 minutes ago, Trinity1776 said:

 re: the Gumball comparison: I remember a couple of years ago that Trompe L'Oeil did a gotcha that had different colors of beach cottages or something similar. No rates, so items that were definitely of less value, just different colors. I thought that was really refreshing.

That's still available at their main store location. If you get the white one stop, because it's tint-able.

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 minutes ago, Badpixie Nightfire said:

As someone who plays gacha a lot and I mean a lot, I feel that this decision to end gacha machines is not the right decision.  From what I have read , the gacha machines do not clearly show what you are playing for. I must argue that that is untrue. If you go to any event such as the Arcade, the loot box, and the Epiphany, ALL gacha machines CLEARLY post the prizes within those machines. It is not really a game of chance, since you are getting SOMETHING for your money and something from the set, unlike those other gaming machines like No Devil and Zyngo, where you put in your money and most of the time get nothing at all. I have heard people bitching about gacha machines and have thought to myself that they have not played the right machines or have only played once or twice. I feel that if the decision stands to end ALL gacha, they should also stop those other gaming machines.

So many people do not seem to understand that their view of whether or not Gacha is gambling or should be allowed is not what matters. 

It is all about how Gacha is defined within the laws.  If LL's legal team tells them that Gachas need to stop, then LL will stop Gachas.  Noting any Resident says will matter.

[Trinity Blakewell]

Question: would this ruling apply to hunts where you are paying a certain amount to get the item, and not knowing which item you receive till you open the box?