New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Elyssa Artis]

The criteria it boils down to, from the FAQs given is: Pay money, get a random chance roll, tfr perms.

Gacha fits this. Loot boxes fit this. Breedables fit this.

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This depends on the system

I believe some "eggs" are random chance objects till they "hatch".

It's a random prize with a time delay.

ok. Those are eggs. I'm not talking about items that have been placed in a gacha vendor. 

I was thinking more along the lines of (grrrr... names are escaping me) horses, rabbits, heaven forbid sion (?) chickens, dogs, cats, etc. You buy as pets (or to ride) and then people started wanting to breed them. I don't see how those fall under gacha because you purchased them from a normal vendor, not a gacha vendor. So the ones that are not sold in gacha vendors are not gachas.

I'm pretty sure I haven't overthought this.

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[VergilISparda]

Just a question here but...

 

Is going to the casino, buying (exchanging money for) tokens, and playing games with random outcomes, gambling anyway? I must admit that I am a little confused about this. Sorry if that question seems silly. What's the link with No Transfer items?

Edited August 3, 2021 by VergilISparda

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, VergilISparda said:

Just a question here but...

 

Is going to the casino, buying (echanging money for) tokens, and playing games with random outcomes, gambling anyway? I must admit that I am a little confused about this. Sorry if that question seems silly. What's the link with No Transfer items?

In the US, technically, yes it is gambling.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Arwyn Quandry said:

Does this mean that a gatcha creator could set up a token system where users would purchase a known item (tokens) in order to use them on the gatcha machine?

I asked him with a mention about tokens/store credits/store points used to pay gacha machines over 40 pages back.

I wish they answered that already.

Also, seeing as over 2 dozen people asked about "preview" alternative type machines, I wish they'd have answered that as well.

[Yuki Suki]

19 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Wait. Do you mean to tell me that 7Seas no longer has the bikini tops and bottoms that you can reel in?

Aw man! *reag quits*

😊

Edit: Just thought I'd mention many years ago the 7Seas fish and other pets you caught were not transferable so that can just be switched back to the way it was. yippee! \o/

I won't know. I have not really done fishing, yet. 😅

[ShanaMoon2014]

this is absolutely not the right decision, I don't understand who and how gacha interferes ... it's cruel ... if for linden lab it's like gambling, then make a special sim like for a casino ... damn, really for SL there is only gacha as the only one problemma and threat? I don't think Linden Lab is really interested in people's opinion, but if a miracle happens and you read this, then this is your strangest rule

[bigmoe Whitfield]

Just now, ShanaMoon2014 said:

this is absolutely not the right decision, I don't understand who and how gacha interferes ... it's cruel ... if for linden lab it's like gambling, then make a special sim like for a casino ... damn, really for SL there is only gacha as the only one problemma and threat? I don't think Linden Lab is really interested in people's opinion, but if a miracle happens and you read this, then this is your strangest rule

Legal requirements are legal requirements,  LL can not just go around them when they please, that's not how the world works.

[Zoey Winsmore]

17 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Would this mean that if an gacha event worked of a ticketing system it would be allowed?

User buys X tickets from a vendor at the entracnce to an event.

Users then play the gacha machines at Y tickets per spin.

All prizes must be no-trans.

I really hope not. This would be the worse kind of loophole for gachas to continue. Specially when the prizes are no-trans.

[Elyssa Artis]

5 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

ok. Those are eggs. I'm not talking about items that have been placed in a gacha vendor. 

I was thinking more along the lines of (grrrr... names are escaping me) horses, rabbits, heaven forbid sion (?) chickens, dogs, cats, etc. You buy as pets (or to ride) and then people started wanting to breed them. I don't see how those fall under gacha because you purchased them from a normal vendor, not a gacha vendor. So the ones that are not sold in gacha vendors are not gachas.

I'm pretty sure I haven't overthought this.

 

Because much like gacha, there are the more desirable items/traits (rares).
People will spend more money on more starter nests/eggs/whatever for a chance to roll those desirable traits.
Those rare trait items can then be resold at 3rd party markets for high prices just like gachas are.

If the separating factor you are giving is the item you get being a container (egg/nest), then gachas just need to start being sold in a box where the item is randomly assigned upon opening that box?

[Yuki Suki]

2 minutes ago, ShanaMoon2014 said:

this is absolutely not the right decision, I don't understand who and how gacha interferes ... it's cruel ... if for linden lab it's like gambling, then make a special sim like for a casino ... damn, really for SL there is only gacha as the only one problemma and threat? I don't think Linden Lab is really interested in people's opinion, but if a miracle happens and you read this, then this is your strangest rule

Gacha issue is not a SL related issue. The whole gaming industry (the gamers and regulators) are all kinda up in arms over gacha/ Loot box system for many years now.  You should research and read up more before you direct your confusion on the wrong target.

[Arwyn Quandry]

1 minute ago, Elyssa Artis said:

If the separating factor you are giving is the item you get being a container (egg/nest), then gachas just need to start being sold in a box where the item is randomly assigned upon opening that box?

Maybe that will be the solution. It seems like we're heading into a world of unknowns, where there's going to be increasingly exploitative "solutions" offered up as unscrupulous folks try to find new ways to run away with as much money as they can.

It would be better if LL had said unequivocally "no paying for unknown items". These loopholes being carved out are problematic.

[LittleMe Jewell]

36 minutes ago, Kyle Beckett said:

Actually 7seas fishing items ARE transferable. Purchasing the "bait" is just changing the currency you use to roll for a random item...err I mean catch a fish. I know of some creators that put pieces of an outfit, furniture, decor, etc as possible catches from fishing so that would  be the same mechanic as a gacha using your bait you made a payment for to get a random result each pull...err I mean cast. AKA  "a chance-based outcome as a result of a payment"

The items won't be transferable in the future:

[ShanaMoon2014]

3 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

Юридические требования - это юридические требования, LL не может просто обходить их, когда им заблагорассудится, мир устроен иначе.

but don't people deserve at least an explanation? what did the gacha do wrong? has it suddenly become a crime?

[Elyssa Artis]

Yes they are. Which is why LL really needs to give firm clear criteria for what constitutes a 'gacha' and hold all markets to that criteria.

If they are legitimately following the laws that are in place, or going to be in place, this should be simple.
In which case, solutions are not 'loopholes', simply not illegal.

[Yuki Suki]

Just now, ShanaMoon2014 said:

but don't people deserve at least an explanation? what did the gacha do wrong? has it suddenly become a crime?

Try google Gacha/ Loot box. Everything is on the web. Gacha isnt new and was not invented in SL ya know.

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, Elyssa Artis said:

Because much like gacha, there are the more desirable items/traits (rares).
People will spend more money on more starter nests/eggs/whatever for a chance to roll those desirable traits.
Those rare trait items can then be resold at 3rd party markets for high prices just like gachas are.

If the separating factor you are giving is the item you get being a container (egg/nest), then gachas just need to start being sold in a box where the item is randomly assigned upon opening that box?

Those people are gambling. I am not talking about the people who  do that. I'm talking about people who purchase the animals from a NON GACHA VENDOR.

Look, I bought horses years ago that are breedable. They are not gachas. I don't play gachas. I did once way back when they first hit the grid. Never again.

I am NOT talking about animals purchased from a GACHA VENDOR. Those are sold as gachas. 

The ones I AM talking about are NOT sold as gachas. They are NOT offered as random chance items.

I can't get any clearer than that.

[ShanaMoon2014]

and what will i see on google? who in this world will feel bad if I buy myself a beautiful dress in gacha?

[Katherine Heartsong]

5 minutes ago, ShanaMoon2014 said:

and what will i see on google? who in this world will feel bad if I buy myself a beautiful dress in gacha?

To repeat ...

"Because of their use of random chance to gain items after committing real-world funds, games using loot boxes may be considered a form of gambling."

Please read this ... ty @Innula Zenovka The important part is bolded. Many jurisdictions/countries are taking this approach. Please contact your elected representatives to complain if you think they are mistaken. LL is following the law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_box#Regulation_and_legislation

Edited August 3, 2021 by Katherine Heartsong

[Romy Writer]

I feel like the criteria for *gacha* should be defined more clearly. From the original announcement it appeared as tho the criteria was purchasing an *unknown item * from any gacha type machine. Now we are seeing talk of permission's being a deciding factor? Would just like to see some clear definitions. 

[Elyssa Artis]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Those people are gambling. I am not talking about the people who  do that. I'm talking about people who purchase the animals from a NON GACHA VENDOR.

Look, I bought horses years ago that are breedable. They are not gachas. I don't play gachas. I did once way back when they first hit the grid. Never again.

I am NOT talking about animals purchased from a GACHA VENDOR. Those are sold as gachas. 

The ones I AM talking about are NOT sold as gachas. They are NOT offered as random chance items.

I can't get any clearer than that.

So I will now call my clothing machine a "floofy vendor" and it will give a random chance at some dresses with solid colors, or some cool less common dresses with extra ruffles and sparkles. It's not GACHA because it's a floofy vendor.

Or I will set up a standard vendor that sells "clothing boxes", and when you get those clothing boxes home and click on them, they will give you a random chance at some dresses with solid colors, or some cool less common dresses with extra ruffles and sparkles. It's not gacha because it came in a 'clothing box' I was clearly buying first, knowing I was getting a 'clothing box'.

That's pretty clear to me.

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, ShanaMoon2014 said:

who in this world will feel bad if I buy myself a beautiful dress in gacha?

How about this:  Instead of LL getting into legal trouble for allowing the illegal Gacha items, the people that bought the illegal item -- i.e. you buying the dress -- gets thrown in jail.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, Romy Writer said:

I feel like the criteria for *gacha* should be defined more clearly. From the original announcement it appeared as tho the criteria was purchasing an *unknown item * from any gacha type machine. Now we are seeing talk of permission's being a deciding factor? Would just like to see some clear definitions. 

Give them time. They working on it. That's the reason for this thread so they can pull all the questions together and answer them in lump sums asap. Just stay tuned.

[Shadowed Luik]

I'm honestly surprised 7seas is ok if gachas are not.

Gacha - you pay for a random prize.
7Seas - you pay for "bait" to get a random prize.

Gacha - You can see the various prizes you might win, but no guarantee of which kind.
7Seas - You can find lists of various fish you might win, but no guarantee of which kind OR guarantee to even get a fish, since its possible to cast and use bait without getting a bite, resulting in lost bait.

Gacha - Items are transferable.
7Seas - Items are transferable (as of now, at least).

Gacha - Sometimes you need to get multiple items to make the main prize.
7Seass - Sometimes you need multiple items to make the main prize (blueprints and parts to build special items).

[MillyWH]

1 minute ago, Elyssa Artis said:

So I will now call my clothing machine a "floofy vendor" and it will give a random chance at some dresses with solid colors, or some cool less common dresses with extra ruffles and sparkles. It's not GACHA because it's a floofy vendor.

Or I will set up a standard vendor that sells "clothing boxes", and when you get those clothing boxes home and click on them, they will give you a random chance at some dresses with solid colors, or some cool less common dresses with extra ruffles and sparkles. It's not gacha because it came in a 'clothing box' I was clearly buying first, knowing I was getting a 'clothing box'.

That's pretty clear to me.

You can call it whatever you want to but it's still will be considered illegal under the way the law is.

 

People know that they are getting a dress or an animal or whatever but they don't know what color or what kind and that is what is making it illegal.

 

So call it a  Happy Fun Ball but if it acts like a lootbox/gacha it can't be allowed