Second Life Statistics: Mesh Bodies

[Mollymews]

8 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't entirely understand how Maitreya gained its dominant position in the market, to be honest

when mesh clothing came out before mesh bodies, there were 3 clothing designers I bought pretty much most of my standard avatar mesh clothes from. When Maitreya came out two of them went to Maitreya (early movers) and the 3rd retired from making stuff. I still buy outfits from these two

i have tried other bodies (some of which I quite liked) and I do experiment with other clothing designers, but there is a aesthetic look which is me, and these two designers help me achieve this. After all this time they still only make for Maitreya and have no plans to add other bodies to their product range. So Maitreya it is for me

[Lucia Nightfire]

37 minutes ago, Teagan Tobias said:

 

I’m very surprised Tonic is not listed. I don’t have any problem finding clothing even being as picky as I am. I tried a demo of the top bodies but the Tonic Fine just rang my bell.I guess I would have other bodies if I had the money for it, but my Tonic body, and head from Tonic, have me completely satisfied.

The bottom line, its good to have choices.

 

There are many brands missing.

Tonic, Altamura, eBody, LucyBody, Absolut, Utilizator, Kalhene

Many brands also offer more than one body.

[Nethya Emor]

5 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

with a online userbase of 30-40 k at any time a day, it needs a lot more explanation and filtering to make the statements you do.
What communities, what countries/worldparts, continents, themes inworld.... and so on.

Yeah aiming for 50k is something that would give us great insight. We could note down sims but I don't think that would help much to anyone looking at their names, and figuring out their themes would take too long. Can't really check for continents and countries, unless we go by Second Life's website traffic but that isn't related to mesh bodies. And checking avatar age wouldn't mean much with so many alts existing.

6 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

 

 

Now that is amazing! So you can see some market difference in a single month, but this could also mean we just charted different parts of SL.

1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

There are many brands missing.

Tonic, Altamura, eBody, LucyBody, Absolut, Utilizator, Kalhene

Many brands also offer more than one body.

In the article you can see the full breakdown: Tonic, Altamura, eBody, LucyBody, Absolut, Utilizator, Kalhene.

So we're missing those 2 only. I'll refer to your compile to fill in any mesh we haven't spotted, but with our current data all the bodies we didn't detect combine into less than 4.1% for female and 5.7% for male avatars.

[Alwin Alcott]

9 minutes ago, Nethya Emor said:

Yeah aiming for 50k is something that would give us great insight. We could note down sims but I don't think that would help much to anyone looking at their names, and figuring out their themes would take too long. Can't really check for continents and countries, unless we go by Second Life's website traffic but that isn't related to mesh bodies. And checking avatar age wouldn't mean much with so many alts existing.

You'r missing the point. Your statements are  based on a way too small avatar count to be representive to make it so general.
We have no single idea where, how and when is counted. For statistics thats a no no.

For example... i can start counting at a average high traffic gay adult region ; wanna bet Niramyth is the 70% top count, with 25% belleza and 5 % mix gianni and other smaller brands.
That would be of the same level of generalisation as the figures in the opningspost.

[Nethya Emor]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

You'r missing the point. Your statements are  based on a way too small avatar count to be representive to make it so general.
We have no single idea where, how and when is counted. For statistics thats a no no.

Simhopping for 7 days through shopping events, roleplay sims, bdsm sims, mainstores, events, clubs, furry sims, hangouts, 50L weekday, disco, and anything else with high traffic. Total of 542 sims checked. Only unique avatars, no duplicates. While 12k isn't that much compared to SL's population, it is still far more than majority of surveys out there. Lucia's data has a higher count which is helpful to look at as well.

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

when mesh clothing came out before mesh bodies, there were 3 clothing designers I bought pretty much most of my standard avatar mesh clothes from. When Maitreya came out two of them went to Maitreya (early movers) and the 3rd retired from making stuff. I still buy outfits from these two

Maitreya was a major clothes maker before the mesh body. They could provide some good quality suitable clothing themselves right from the start so the buyers didn't have to go around naked until the clothes makers caught up.

[Alwin Alcott]

48 minutes ago, Nethya Emor said:

shopping events, roleplay sims, bdsm sims, mainstores, events, clubs, furry sims, hangouts, 50L weekday, disco, and anything else with high traffic. Total of 542 sims checked.

542 out of roughly 25000 ..  events, stores, bdsm and the others types of selected regions are not the places where most people are, go, or hang out. It's not representative for the average of SL.
And i don't say you don't show a reflection, but it's not a standarized statistic report. It's impossible to redo  it. Too many variables aren't taken into the outcome.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Why, it's better than the hundredsomething submissions that were the base for the standard sizes ensemble.

[Janet Voxel]

I have to agree with Alwin. I’m not saying Maitreya or Legacy don’t have a large share of the market, they obviously do. The issue I’m having is there are sims where you will see a lot more of the “other” bodies and a lot less Maitreya.

Also the shopping events mainly cater to big three bodies: Maitreya, Legacy and Belleza for women and Signature, Jake and I’m sure something else is in there for men. Since it caters to those bodies, you’re going to see more people wearing those bodies at the events. Meanwhile, people that wear other bodies end up shopping on marketplace instead of events because clothes aren’t available to them at events.

I’m not saying OP didn’t put in work. I just don’t want this to go down the “Nobody wears Hourglass (just an example) why are creators still making clothes for it?” When there are places you still see those bodies. People are going to hold this survey up, so the methodology has to be on point.

So the question becomes how do you count the people that don’t shop at events?

[Solar Legion]

I've gone through a few different bodies over the years since Mesh Bodies were introduced: Aesthetic, Belleza, Utilizator, Blue Galaxy and Sugarcult (Enzo, Jake, Kemono (Starbright alteration), Feline/Solarian and Regalia respectively).

Of those that I still use? Jake is the primary, Regalia edged out the Solarian but only due to the latter essentially being locked into Feline-esque forms.

The advent and adoption of BoM has made many things much easier in terms of modding, hence why Jake is my most used. Regalia has their own method/variant of BoM that leverages the base principle but prevents cross compatibility with all other bodies. Unless something changed, the Solarian - last I looked - does not do BoM.

I do have to say that those here stating that overall usage results will vary depending on where you look are quite correct: I tend to see a mix consisting of Belleza, Maitreya and Sugarcult/Regalia in the areas I frequent. That's even factoring in the more Femme built guys that use aftermarket mods like the V-Tech chest.

I have noticed a slight shift here and there with the Human Male clothing market and watched as some Anthro modders shift priorities and such around. One I rather like had support for Regalia but dropped it more recently - that offset to the UV/Bake Maps the body uses puts a crimp in creators supporting both it and 'normal' bodies, despite the variants being built to be compatible with a variety of Human bodies.

[Yukiko Yeshto]

13 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

What I am curious to know is how much of a pain in the arsenal is it to rig the same piece of clothing for 3+ bodies? Creators, can you shed some light on this?

Roughly said, it depends on the complexity of the item, the quality of dev kits, the number of bodies/variations (e.g. original, petite, flat) and of course, personal skill. From what I have seen and heard from other creators so far, rigging alone can vary between a few hours to 2 days. However, you actually have to count in all the preparation for rigging as well, such as retopology. Plus all the tests to make sure that everything fits fine, and hopefully no technical issue comes in your way  Thumbs of rule, I would say, the average for a not too simple item is round about one working week if you create from scratch and consider everything else (I don't want to write a novel about all details ^^). Which leads to my next point.

Keeping the amount of work in mind if you want to offer high-quality, unique creations, and looking at such kind of statistics, as a creator you would always also ask yourself: where is the money? (Please read on before you gasp ) You consider various factors. A statistic like here is very helpful as one of your decision-making aids but you would also count in such factors like: can continuous customer service and product updates be expected for a considerable amount of time?; is the personal creation style actually matching this or that body?; is the body available at low cost/for free, or at a reasonable price? The conclusions you would make are for example: if a body has no support, it will be a nine day wonder only; if your style doesn't match, you will most likely fail to offer a decent product; if people pay hardly anything or nothing for a mesh body, they are probably not planning to invest a lot more into their overall appearance. Which is totally fine as well! But everything has its pros and cons, and I guess we can easily see a clash between contradictory expectations from (potential) customers vs. creators. 

Once again back to "Where is the money?" Let's also keep in mind that while creating in and for SL is "just for fun" for a few; for many, it is also their (sometimes only) source of income. If you take creating for SL as a serious job, you have even some more costs to consider because no one will ever pay you what it's worth it for the time invested into improving skills, updating soft-/hardware, purchasing license subscriptions and so on. With all that in mind, I guess you can say: it's complicated with those mesh bodies 

 

[Blaise Glendevon]

2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Regalia edged out the Solarian but only due to the latter essentially being locked into Feline-esque forms.

Regalia also has the bonus of being backwards compatible with the major human mesh body clothing sizes. So, you're wearing regalia but your fit is for Legacy or Maitreya depending on how you like your shape. 

[Solar Legion]

1 hour ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Regalia also has the bonus of being backwards compatible with the major human mesh body clothing sizes. So, you're wearing regalia but your fit is for Legacy or Maitreya depending on how you like your shape. 

Heh, something I'd noted at the very end of my earlier post!

[Monica Querrien]

For the people who are doubting the results, how is this any different from creators polling their own groups and social media? Wouldn't that be more biased, because if they are making x number of sizes, then those sizes would more likely dominate the results? At least this way, when you visit a number of regions, chances are it will be a different group of people (i.e. different data) each time. Also, they are actually wearing the bodies.

No matter who does these surveys, there will always be a bit of a bias.  And there will always be people who are upset because their preferred body is not as popular/worn as others.

[FairreLilette]

On 2/12/2021 at 9:39 AM, Yukiko Yeshto said:

Roughly said, it depends on the complexity of the item, the quality of dev kits, the number of bodies/variations (e.g. original, petite, flat) and of course, personal skill. From what I have seen and heard from other creators so far, rigging alone can vary between a few hours to 2 days. However, you actually have to count in all the preparation for rigging as well, such as retopology. Plus all the tests to make sure that everything fits fine, and hopefully no technical issue comes in your way  Thumbs of rule, I would say, the average for a not too simple item is round about one working week if you create from scratch and consider everything else (I don't want to write a novel about all details ^^). Which leads to my next point.

Keeping the amount of work in mind if you want to offer high-quality, unique creations, and looking at such kind of statistics, as a creator you would always also ask yourself: where is the money? (Please read on before you gasp ) You consider various factors. A statistic like here is very helpful as one of your decision-making aids but you would also count in such factors like: can continuous customer service and product updates be expected for a considerable amount of time?; is the personal creation style actually matching this or that body?; is the body available at low cost/for free, or at a reasonable price? The conclusions you would make are for example: if a body has no support, it will be a nine day wonder only; if your style doesn't match, you will most likely fail to offer a decent product; if people pay hardly anything or nothing for a mesh body, they are probably not planning to invest a lot more into their overall appearance. Which is totally fine as well! But everything has its pros and cons, and I guess we can easily see a clash between contradictory expectations from (potential) customers vs. creators. 

Once again back to "Where is the money?" Let's also keep in mind that while creating in and for SL is "just for fun" for a few; for many, it is also their (sometimes only) source of income. If you take creating for SL as a serious job, you have even some more costs to consider because no one will ever pay you what it's worth it for the time invested into improving skills, updating soft-/hardware, purchasing license subscriptions and so on. With all that in mind, I guess you can say: it's complicated with those mesh bodies 

 

I know, I create.  The work involved is just un-effing-believable.  I've never worked so hard at anything in my entire life.  I'm small potatoes though and not corporate as just doing the little I do can be frankly exhausting.  Just exhausting.  And, people can tire of it in a day or less.  As far as what bodies I would do, for those not corporate or having any help, I'd say approach creating for SL like it's your wardrobe you are making.  Make clothing you'd like to wear and then share some of your wardrobe and put it up for sale.  It's a good approach to get started too.  I also couldn't afford all the bodies.  Working to the point of exhaustion for peanuts, no, not worth it to buy all those bodies in the first place.  It's also not worth it unless you do advertising big time.  And, to advertise one item on MP is $3.50 per item per week.  That's a lot of money, especially if the item does not sell.  I was surprised to to see how quickly Kupra grew too, but I think it's cute, although not for me.  I'd like something different but more like boney, super model thin, with real bones and bone structure showing.  As far as Maitreya's popularity, I loved it from day one but after three years maybe I'd like something new one of these days but more on the thinner than Maitreya scale.  

[Rowan Amore]

31 minutes ago, Monica Querrien said:

And there will always be people who are upset because their preferred body is not as popular/worn as others.

I'd rather be wearing a body LESS people are using.  It's difficult enough trying to be unique.  I'm glad I switched to another body from Maitreya.  I would think the only people upset would be the body creators.

[Nethya Emor]

Finished an article on female mesh heads. You can find details here: https://www.lure-sl.com/sl-female-mesh-heads/

Quick overview:

LeLutka	2704 (29.9%)
Catwa	2519 (27.9%)
Genus	2171 (24%)
none	809 (9%)
LAQ	309 (3.4%)
Others	521 (5.7%)

Others include: Akeruka, Utilizator, GA.EG, LOGO, and Vista.

With how many different heads exist out there, it seems that compared to bodies we will have to dig out and categorize some lesser known mesh heads in the future, as the None category takes a whooping 9%. While we encountered plenty of people not wearing a mesh head, the line is fuzzy when reading data. So our next test will aim to correct that and only show people who very likely don't wear a mesh head.

[missyrideout]

Thank you for doing this work! It surprises me there are creators still doing makeup for Genus only. Maybe these numbers circulating will inspire them to branch out. They are leaving money on the table. A lot!

Edited February 15, 2021 by missyrideout

[Scylla Rhiadra]

On 2/12/2021 at 1:55 AM, Sorciaa said:

I am sure the popularity of the legacy, while I think they are over priced, have been 50% off 3 times since they were released and a half off legacy is well worth it. 😊

I like the Perky a lot . . . but I'd never have bought it at full price.

[Simo Vodopan]

It's a shame to see the statistics on the Freya being so low. I recently got into the Slink once I figured out how to do it but the Freya has always been my flag-ship as far as my female avs go. Great shape, curves that aren't too 'bombastic'. A natural balance and it can be thicc at that. I never understood why the Maitreya was so popular, for one thing with that being said it's too damned small compared to the Freya or Slink. You don't get much of a ass or anything. The Freya is overall a well balanced body IMO with Slink coming in second, they got BOM and everything and they're inexpensive too.

As for males? I primarily use either Aesthetic or Jake and it's like one prior poster said; I'm glad to have a unique body not many people use anymore. I'll be rocking my freya or Aesthetics as my flag-ships into the next generations.

While I'm curious about the new Legacy or whatever it's too damned pricey for one thing. I think alot of people also follow trends and what not and that's how some statistics can be at times. What I say? Just be your damned selves if that's the case. I was never on the Maitreya train since day one.

Interesting results in the end...

Edited February 16, 2021 by Simo Vodopan

[FairreLilette]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I like the Perky a lot . . . but I'd never have bought it at full price.

Exactly and neither would I.  That's what I keep saying about many high priced luxury items in SL and perhaps many high priced items in SL in general.  It's better to sell two or three at a lower price than none because you make your money up on volume and lower prices draw people in to buy when they would not otherwise.  But no one here on the forums have ever agreed with me about that.  Sales are a part of business and a part of life.  It's just a fact.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Simo Vodopan]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Exactly and neither would I.  That's what I keep saying about many high priced luxury items in SL and perhaps many high priced items in SL in general.  It's better to sell two or three at a lower price than none because you make your money up on volume and lower prices draw people in to buy when they would not otherwise.  But no one here on the forums have ever agreed with me about that.  Sales are a part of business and a part of life.  It's just a fact.  

It's true.

I work in the food business and places like a Burger King get more business than a Arby's due to lower prices. From my experiences only the upper clientele go to an Arby's and there I've gotten about 5 100 dollar bills and a couple of 50 bills in over a hour.

But you get very little of those at a Burger King. It only makes economic sense to have a little  lower price than your competitor. Make it sound like a good deal with the ads (typical business strategy, it's kinda manipulation in a way as some of the ads are lies trust me) and everything and you get more sales than the other guy. For example, we have the 1.50 dollar nuggets 'deal' constantly and people always come in ordering like 30-40 nuggets, sometimes even over 100 nuggets and by the end of the hour or two we have made over 2,600 dollars in just that lunch rush alone. People don't realize the strategy and work that goes into this kind of stuff to make money. Because the majority of people are not well off as those that go to say an Arby's so they flock to a Burger King that has lower prices.

So I agree with you, it's only logical. But it seems logic and reasoning is becoming rarer than before these days.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Simo Vodopan

[FairreLilette]

9 hours ago, Simo Vodopan said:

It's true.

I work in the food business and places like a Burger King get more business than a Arby's due to lower prices. From my experiences only the upper clientele go to an Arby's and there I've gotten about 5 100 dollar bills and a couple of 50 bills in over a hour.

But you get very little of those at a Burger King. It only makes economic sense to have a little  lower price than your competitor. Make it sound like a good deal with the ads (typical business strategy, it's kinda manipulation in a way as some of the ads are lies trust me) and everything and you get more sales than the other guy. For example, we have the 1.50 dollar nuggets 'deal' constantly and people always come in ordering like 30-40 nuggets, sometimes even over 100 nuggets and by the end of the hour or two we have made over 2,600 dollars in just that lunch rush alone. People don't realize the strategy and work that goes into this kind of stuff to make money. Because the majority of people are not well off as those that go to say an Arby's so they flock to a Burger King that has lower prices.

So I agree with you, it's only logical. But it seems logic and reasoning is becoming rarer than before these days.

My ex and I lived not too far from an Arby's and we'd get coupons quite a lot.  So we went to Arby's when there was a good deal.  We almost always ate out on weekends so we lived by the coupons of the sales even for places to eat.   I cooked during the week but my ex always took us out to eat on the weekends. I always went to sales, always.  I rarely bought anything full price ever.  It's how mortgage poor people with child make it.  I just recently bought from two stores I've never bought from and they have excellent stuff at a fantastic price and their price is about 60% lower than their competitors.  If the price wasn't as low for these items I just bought, I would not have bought them.  I am not a money tree nor have endless lindens.  lol  I power shop here just like I do in real life. 

[Theresa Tennyson]

9 hours ago, Simo Vodopan said:

It's true.

I work in the food business and places like a Burger King get more business than a Arby's due to lower prices. From my experiences only the upper clientele go to an Arby's and there I've gotten about 5 100 dollar bills and a couple of 50 bills in over a hour.

Interesting definition of "upper clientele"...

 

[FairreLilette]

12 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Interesting definition of "upper clientele"...

 

I probably lived in a mostly middle class community for 20 years with my ex.  We did have a large population of upper clientele among our community, mostly doctors, stock brokers, some radio celebrities.  Our community was always sending us coupons in the mail not only for food but for clothing too.   Arby's was always sending out coupons and so was Burger King.  It's how mortgage poor people lived.  It's expensive to have a home in California.   Some upper middle class people can be very stingy.  I saw them at the sales too.  If it's 70% off, they were there just like the rest of us.  We had a community of endless sales and it ran very well.  

I wonder just how many people would be buying Legacy bodies if they were again on sale?  I'd say quite a lot.  With no sale happening, there is probably no one there.  With a 50% off sale, it would be mobbed.  When I went to get my Legacy demo to try the body when it was not on sale, there was no one there.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by FairreLilette