any way to remove "wear" from options?

[Hunny Bunny]

3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The initial attaching has to be done by the creator in order to set the attachment point. Since clothing is mostly no mod how are you, the customer, going to change the attachment point? Think about the process you have to go through.

And if LL changed Wear to Replace (like it once was many years ago as I recall) people would gripe and want it change back to Wear.

 

Right click an item > Attach to > Pick a bone from a list?

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Since clothing is mostly no mod how are you, the customer, going to change the attachment point?

The 'mod' permission does not come in to play for setting of the attachment point.  Even for no-mod attachments, at any time I can detach and then right-click in inventory and select "Attach to" and pick the spot I want it at. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by LittleMe Jewell

[Silent Mistwalker]

Please go back and reread my edited post.

[Hunny Bunny]

15 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Come to think about it, if creators were to stop setting attachment points people would gripe about that, too.

Creators are not setting the attachment point. The right hand is the default attachment point.

[Theresa Tennyson]

29 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The initial attaching has to be done by the creator in order to set the attachment point.

No it doesn't. Even if it's no-mod you can attach it to any attachment point, and it will remember that attachment point every time you re-attach it until you change it to another one. You can even attach it to a point that didn't exist when the item was originally made.

[Silent Mistwalker]

The creators I buy clothing from have been setting the attachment point for years. Once in a while they might forget but most of the time the attachment point has been reset (semantics 🙄) from the right hand to a more appropriate point. That is what I am talking about.

[Silent Mistwalker]

💭

Edited February 8, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Rowan Amore]

They have add/attach and remove/detach.  Wear is the oddball since there is no Unwear.  The first 4 should be isolated and Wear should be way down at the bottom, away from any of them.

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You don't even have to go into the Debug Settings.  Those settings are available either in Preferences or via the Gear on the Inventory window -- can't remember which right now.

Yep, I had to search around for them but found them to be in the inventory window.  For anyone curious, the cogwheel with a dropdown in Firestorm's inventory window will have them listed there.

[Lindal Kidd]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Wear is the oddball since there is no Unwear

Yes there is. It's just called Take Off.

Still, I don't disagree with the notion that Wear should be off by itself somewhat. It is Too Dangerous To Be Accidentally Clicked. "Replace Outfit" should be similarly isolated. Once long ago, I accidentally clicked that while trying to attach a lipstick and compact, and wound up naked in a crowded shopping mall.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

I think this is more of an issue of people being lazy about setting attachment points (creators included). Since every single thing defaults to your hand but you don't see that with rigged items, everyone's just walking around holding themselves.  Pick a bone that matches the item (I use chest for shirts, hip for pants in order to free up the pelvis, etc) and you won't have people accidentally stripping in public nearly as often. You also don't have people clubbing each other to death with their bodies when they haven't rendered properly. Basically nothing should be attaching to the hand unless it is intentional. After that, you set the double click actions and it's pretty much a non-issue.

[LittleMe Jewell]

I simply used @Wulfie Reanimator's info on the first page to remove the option from my inventory right click menu so that I don't accidentally select it.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I simply used @Wulfie Reanimator's info on the first page to remove the option from my inventory right click menu so that I don't accidentally select it.

That's great for the people who aren't risking messing up their viewer because they really have no business messing with the XML. I'm certainly not brave enough. Too much of a PITA to have to uninstall and do a clean reinstall.

[Paula Alderson]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You don't even have to go into the Debug Settings.  Those settings are available either in Preferences or via the Gear on the Inventory window -- can't remember which right now.

Well that would work if I double clicked, but I don't. Thanks for the kind reply though. Just if they gave us the option to hide wear item with a debug. It's just something that seems to accidentally happen when clicking and I'm not focused. It's not like I go intentionally doing it, but accidents happen. Linden Lab needs to address this and maybe I will open a JIRA. Though I somehow doubt they'll take it seriously. I'm a Firestorm user so I'll mention it to them too. I'll check the settings.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Paula Alderson
typo

[Solar Legion]

No. No one needs to address it.

 

[rasterscan]

I feel your pain, Paula.  Especially when it's the delivery box suddenly appearing on the right hand at the local disco on a Saturday night.

[Finite]

I thought "wear" was still used for layering such as for bom and what not. Whatever is worn would be the bottom layer. And anything added would appear above in the layers. This way things like hair base, makeup and brows don't end up on a layer below the  skin layer you're using.

[Teagan Tobias]

On 2/7/2022 at 4:59 PM, Rowan Amore said:

They have add/attach and remove/detach.  Wear is the oddball since there is no Unwear.  The first 4 should be isolated and Wear should be way down at the bottom, away from any of them.

 

That is one of the best parts of “wear”. Its two commands in one.

When you use wear it detaches one thing and attaches something else at the same time.

And I don’t care if its moved or even renamed, its still very useful, if you know how to use it.

 

 

[Persephone Emerald]

On 1/10/2021 at 9:43 PM, malcolmmerlyn1 said:

Hey, I use firestorm and really want to remove the "wear" option. I already have add, and use it. Every time I turn around, if I accidentally click wear when unpacking an object, whether clothes or otherwise, it always knocks my head off. I am really tired of going in and re adding head, eyes, jaw, etc.

There is another way of dealing with this problem. Rather than removing your options, pay attention to where you choose to wear mesh items. Hats and hair should attach to your head. because when you Wear a new one, it will replace the previous one. Shirts could be attached to your spine or stomach for the same reason. You get to pick where you want mesh to attach. Pants should probably attach to your pelvis. I try to attach shoe sets to my left foot. Don't let everything attach to your right hand (or to your head in this case). I wear my mesh body attached to my avatar center, so if I wear a companion pet, I have to Add it. I know that I attach most of my clothing to my Spine or Pelvis, so If I put on wings, I'll Add them or attach them to my Bento Wing position. I have a few clothes that are meant to attach to the Stomach, but I know which ones those are, so I won't put on a belt that would knock them off. 

Once you set where you want an object to attach, it will remember that location for next time. Creators sometimes pick where they want items to attach, but often they're lazy about this and just let them attach to the right hand (the default position).

My way of dressing avatars is more complicated than just Wearing or Adding everything, but it feels natural to me to know that pants or skirts go on the pelvis, while shirts go on the spine and mesh bodies go onto the Avatar Center. Normally my clothes don't go off unless I want them to, but if they would, I would TP home to fix them.

[Paula Alderson]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:54 PM, Solar Legion said:

No. No one needs to address it.

 

Maybe you don't think so, but there's plenty of us that seem to think otherwise.

[Paula Alderson]

On 2/7/2022 at 4:19 PM, Solar Legion said:

Pay. Closer. Attention.

Whatever, talk to the hand.

[Solar Legion]

1 hour ago, Paula Alderson said:

Maybe you don't think so, but there's plenty of us that seem to think otherwise.

That's nice.

1 hour ago, Paula Alderson said:

Whatever, talk to the hand.

Yep, very nice.

Pay closer attention.

Oh and stow the teenager attitude.

[Anna Nova]

On 1/11/2021 at 4:42 PM, animats said:

Removing "Wear" for attach points that don't really map to a body part, such as "Center", would be a good move.

Disagree. I am always attaching things to Centre, usually self-detaching scripted objects that make some change to my clothing using RLVa.  If I can't use a HUD attachment point, then you would see the object in-world - which ruins the illusion.  And I want Wear, not Add, so that it boots anything left when SL* screws up RLVa, which it does frequently.

 

*SL = SL, or the Viewer, or the comms lag, or whatever.

[Qie Niangao]

On 2/7/2022 at 4:19 PM, Solar Legion said:

Pay. Closer. Attention.

57 minutes ago, Anna Nova said:

[...] And I want Wear, not Add, so that it boots anything left when SL* screws up RLVa, which it does frequently.

Just to make sure (because only god and Kitty know what RLVa might do), you could manually detach whatever thing is attached there on Center, right? I mean, that would be possible if you paid (unreasonably) Closer Attention to what's already attached, right? (That's an extra step, not a win; just trying to confirm it would be possible.)

We can know what all is already attached at any attachment point. But I don't know how to predict the target attachment point of an arbitrary, unattached Inventory item. So now I wonder: Is there a feature I don't know about—perhaps in a TPV*—that shows a priori what attachment point an Inventory item will target? If so, that would be a hint as to what current attachment would get booted were I to Wear that item instead of Add it. Otherwise, I don't know what I should Pay Closer Attention to.

I never really thought about any of this, at least not since it was first possible to attach multiple things to the same attachment point. Now, reading through this thread, it seems to me the point of having both Add and Wear is to reduce the cognitive load of juggling one's attachments, but Wear only does that for certain people. Even at this point in the thread it's still not really clear to me what those people do differently, or how they think differently, or how their assembled attachments differ from those of us who find it less taxing to Add and if necessary manually detach whatever Wear might automatically detach if we somehow know where it will attach.

Maybe that's the difference? Maybe some of us aren't organized enough to remember where an Inventory item will actually attach, and generally don't need to care because Add lands it on some attachment point and usually we can ignore which one (because of fitted mesh). And other people know where those items will attach because… they attach those same items a lot, I guess, always on the same attachment point?

________________________
 * Slightly off topic: if there is an attribute of Inventory items that reveals their target attachment point, it would be good if that were true in object inventory, too, and exposed to scripts. I can imagine uses for that.

[Paula Alderson]

11 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Just to make sure (because only god and Kitty know what RLVa might do), you could manually detach whatever thing is attached there on Center, right? I mean, that would be possible if you paid (unreasonably) Closer Attention to what's already attached, right? (That's an extra step, not a win; just trying to confirm it would be possible.)

We can know what all is already attached at any attachment point. But I don't know how to predict the target attachment point of an arbitrary, unattached Inventory item. So now I wonder: Is there a feature I don't know about—perhaps in a TPV*—that shows a priori what attachment point an Inventory item will target? If so, that would be a hint as to what current attachment would get booted were I to Wear that item instead of Add it. Otherwise, I don't know what I should Pay Closer Attention to.

I never really thought about any of this, at least not since it was first possible to attach multiple things to the same attachment point. Now, reading through this thread, it seems to me the point of having both Add and Wear is to reduce the cognitive load of juggling one's attachments, but Wear only does that for certain people. Even at this point in the thread it's still not really clear to me what those people do differently, or how they think differently, or how their assembled attachments differ from those of us who find it less taxing to Add and if necessary manually detach whatever Wear might automatically detach if we somehow know where it will attach.

Maybe that's the difference? Maybe some of us aren't organized enough to remember where an Inventory item will actually attach, and generally don't need to care because Add lands it on some attachment point and usually we can ignore which one (because of fitted mesh). And other people know where those items will attach because… they attach those same items a lot, I guess, always on the same attachment point?

________________________
 * Slightly off topic: if there is an attribute of Inventory items that reveals their target attachment point, it would be good if that were true in object inventory, too, and exposed to scripts. I can imagine uses for that.

Well I was a bit hasty saying to get rid of it in my original comment. I do think it needs to be moved down in the menu so it's not right on top of add/remove. It's not so much paying attention as accidents can happen. My mouse was being quirky that evening. I sometimes detach entire folders at a time from the worn menu. By the time I realized what I had done it was too late. It starts putting on everything in my inventory without stop. It's very annoying. My friend was standing there saying you're lagging the sim. Wasn't anything I could do but wait for it to stop. All I'm saying is there should be a debug option for those of us who don't use wear. Wear detaches my ears, my tail etc. Yes I am a kitty. This is why I prefer add. The only way I think we can get around it maybe is making outfits. I'm trying to be more diligent about doing that. Wear is useful for others. That's okay. For the ones it's not useful for, we should have a way to hide it with debug options or at least Linden Lab could move it away from the add option. As for Solar above, I don't appreciate being blown off and I'm far from a teenager. Try 47 RL. Just because some people who are trying to stop me from talking about it doesn't mean I'm going too.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Paula Alderson
typo