Sellers, You Are Losing Sales Because of Timed Demos

[Drayke Newall]

1 minute ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

MM often times if I can make adjustments to the colours of the item and such,  that would be why, I ask for those permissions.   I do not fool with no mod no copy items much.

Um... a person earlier posted that a scripter found a way to bypass any timed demo system. So in essence you are basically, by suggesting that by having a demo copy/mod (and on a timer), getting free outfits.

A demo can never be both copy and mod. It defeats the purpose of the store providing the demo for free and opens up a whole new copybot drama can of worms if someone can bypass the timer script as suggested in this thread. Even worse would be a demo not on a timer with copy/mod privileges. 

 

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Um... a person earlier posted that a scripter found a way to bypass any timed demo system

to stop (never start) the timer then rez/wear it on a no-script parcel

[Paul Hexem]

5 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

MM often times if I can make adjustments to the colours of the item and such,  that would be why, I ask for those permissions.   I do not fool with no mod no copy items much.

 

5 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Um... a person earlier posted that a scripter found a way to bypass any timed demo system. So in essence you are basically, by suggesting that by having a demo copy/mod (and on a timer), getting free outfits.

A demo can never be both copy and mod. It defeats the purpose of the store providing the demo for free and opens up a whole new copybot drama can of worms if someone can bypass the timer script as suggested in this thread. Even worse would be a demo not on a timer with copy/mod privileges. 

 

Yeah, asking for copy/mod on a demo is asking for the full product for free.

[Blush Bravin]

Time demos = no sale for me. If I know the creator is using timed demos, I won't pick up the demo even if I like the way the item looks in the ad. I like to mix and match my clothing so I need time to try the demo with items in my inventory. One of my ultra fave creators has started using timed demos; and as a result, I've hardly bought anything from her in the past six months. It's easy enough for a creator to attach a prim that covers the face of the wearer so that taking pics for Flickr or going on a date wearing the demo would be completely ridiculous.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

9 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

just have to remember they're timed though - a few times I put on a demo, walked away for a bit, then come back to find my av nekkid in the middle of the store 😨

 

Oh noes, I'm naked in their store and it's their own fault! I would never do that on purpose. 😜

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Timed demos get instantly trashed... unless they don't have any other pests like floating bits or demo textures. Both visual impairing and a time limit plus that stupid "you have 5 minutes for try this demo" mistake are too much for me.

Not too long ago, there was a thread with a child / teen clothing creator who did reconsider their demo concept after discussing this timing thing over a couple of pages. If only I had the right terms to hit up the search functions...

[Silent Mistwalker]

38 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Timed demos get instantly trashed... unless they don't have any other pests like floating bits or demo textures. Both visual impairing and a time limit plus that stupid "you have 5 minutes for try this demo" mistake are too much for me.

Not too long ago, there was a thread with a child / teen clothing creator who did reconsider their demo concept after discussing this timing thing over a couple of pages. If only I had the right terms to hit up the search functions...

If you remember a name you could look through their postings (the list that comes as "content") or if you posted in the thread you could go through your own. I can usually find what I'm looking for that way when search fails me.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

9 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

Yeah, asking for copy/mod on a demo is asking for the full product for free.

okay I'm done trying to explain whats in my head to the forum about a demo.    I want nothing free of the sort, I want to set it a certain colour the avatar uses, most content creators for fancy bodies have colour huds that they pick the colour out for their demos which does me no good, why buy something if I'm not able to match the colour on the demo first?   it ends the sale for the non demo item if I'm not able too. 

[Qie Niangao]

I think I see a problem with demos for items that grant Modify permission in the actual product: You can't really see the product the way you'll be able to use it. There are scripted tools that provide successive approximations to what you can do in the editor (size adjustments, full range tinting, etc.)... and one could even imagine letting users demo with their own textures and materials UUIDs (which, of course, they'd need to have full perm). But if the seller actually gives the demo itself real Modify permission, it's pretty indistinguishable from the actual, non-demo product, isn't it?

(But "fancy bodies" are the most apt to have the most sophisticated scripted tinting tools for their no-mod demos -- and sadly, their creations are about the least likely to have Modify permissions in the end product -- so maybe I'm still missing the point.)

[Io Bechir]

Not totally on point, but as an FYI, you can find specific items in a store very quickly using the Area Search function in the Firestorm accessible under the "World" menu. 

[AdoriModel]

The reason why timed demos were created, was because of copybots; people ripping off other people's work. I understand completely why many stores have changed to timed demos. These creators work hard on building their mesh and texturing, they have a right to protect that work. I will not hold that against them.

If I truly like a product within the first few minutes, an item disappearing on me isn't going to change my mind.  NOW with that being said, what I do with timed demos, is try on the different sizes. I try my body size for fit, but if I am playing with textures and need more time, I just add a different size. Now with an accessory like a hat, that could be more difficult. In that instance, I would just rez another copy of the package after putting on hair I now know would probably work and try again.

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 8/6/2020 at 2:34 AM, Marianne Little said:

I agree with@AdminGirl. No need to buy the clothes at all. One hour? More than enough time to accessorize and take pictures to post on Flickr, the blog or any other place. Two hours? A whole evening in SL for many. Long enough to attend a concert, a dance, a date.

Yes, some cheapskates might do that, but they probably wouldn't have paid for it anyway, so the storekeeper lost nothing, but, by angering people like me, who likely would have bought it, and likely would have come back and bought more of their stuff, they actually lost income. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[Cinos Field]

It all depends on the specifics. 5 minutes isn't enough (I need to try it with different outfits, and check how much it clips with different animations).

There's only one kind of demo that definitely and instantly ends a purchase for me. The timed demo, with textures that say it's a demo, and big attached prims that also say it's a demo, and a picture of the texture hud instead of one that lets you actually preview textures.  There are a couple of clothiers who do that.

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

, by angering people like me, who likely would have bought it, and likely would have come back and bought more of their stuff, they actually lost income. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

but by angering you and the freeloader that want the demo for hours, they loose more money and won't buy because it served it's purpose.. no loss for the store at all.

[Gabriele Graves]

10 hours ago, AdoriModel said:

The reason why timed demos were created, was because of copybots; people ripping off other people's work. I understand completely why many stores have changed to timed demos. These creators work hard on building their mesh and texturing, they have a right to protect that work. I will not hold that against them.

If this truly was the reason, then they wasted their time because it would take no time at all for a copybot to do just that.  You couldn't shorten the time enough to protect a product and still give any kind of effective demo for the prospective customer.  That said, it wouldn't the first time content creators have been sold on snake oil concepts to "protect" their works.

[Silent Mistwalker]

12 hours ago, AdoriModel said:

The reason why timed demos were created, was because of copybots; people ripping off other people's work. I understand completely why many stores have changed to timed demos. These creators work hard on building their mesh and texturing, they have a right to protect that work. I will not hold that against them.

If I truly like a product within the first few minutes, an item disappearing on me isn't going to change my mind.  NOW with that being said, what I do with timed demos, is try on the different sizes. I try my body size for fit, but if I am playing with textures and need more time, I just add a different size. Now with an accessory like a hat, that could be more difficult. In that instance, I would just rez another copy of the package after putting on hair I now know would probably work and try again.

People need to get it in their brains that there is no way to completely eliminate copybotting without eliminating all viewers except LL's. No script or anything else is going to prevent copybotting. Do people really want to turn the clock back and be forced to use a viewer that doesn't have many of the features we have grown accustomed to having and using? I certainly hope not since doing so would have a huge negative impact on resident experience. For instance the photography tools. Just think of all the beautiful images we would never have had if it weren't for third party viewers (TPVs) developing them. Not LL. 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

The sellers using short timed demos don't care if a few get upset and don't buy or come back.  Those who act like that are not the customers they are looking for. 

[Nick0678]

When i used to build cars and bikes in SL i always made the demos with a 5 minute timer and it wasn't to prevent copybotting but to avoid those who wanted a free ride. 5 minutes were enough. Copybotting will always be possible even with only the LL viewer, making a time limited demo to avoid copybotting .. well lets say it doesn't work. Script's off = bye bye timer.

[Cinos Field]

2 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

The sellers using short timed demos don't care if a few get upset and don't buy or come back.  Those who act like that are not the customers they are looking for. 

It's an interesting way of doing business for sure. Losing some number of sales by putting in extra effort, while gaining nothing, isn't historically successful, though.

Personally, when selling my craft, I want as many people as possible to buy it. I'm certainly not picky about customers.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Cinos Field

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

It's an interesting way of doing business for sure. Losing some number of sales by putting in extra effort, while gaining nothing, isn't historically successful, though.

the sellers who do this, dont really care, its not about the bottom line to them. its about the type of customer not how much they may have made from other customers that were driven away.

its not always about selling as much as possible to as many as possible for everyone. 

either buy or dont.. they wont care either way. If you dont you were not their ideal customer. they are looking for those that do impulsive buying, pressure sales, buy-now-or-never types of people.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Cinos Field]

Just now, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

the sellers who do this, dont really care, its not about the bottom line to them. its about the type of customer not how much they may have made from other customers that were driven away.

its not always about selling as much as possible to as many as possible for everyone. 

Why sell their things to the public at all, if some arbitrary customer type is all they want? Undesirables might slip through. A private shop or club would be a better idea.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

Why sell their things to the public at all, if some arbitrary customer type is all they want? Undesirables might slip through. A private shop or club would be a better idea.

its not about being private or only selling to one kind of person, but one type of shopper. they are not looking for those what want to take hours or days deciding if they will buy or not. that have to try it out with every outfit to make sure it fits everything just how they want.

demo.. buy-NOW or else go away and come back when you finally make up your mind to BUY.

If you dont come back.. oh well.. your loss.. not theirs. someone else will come and eventually buy.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Annalise Evergarden]

If the timed demo means I get to actually see all of the outfit or item I want to buy, I'd be happy.   

It would give me a better idea of if it fits my general style without having to assume I'm getting what's being advertised, ads tend to use a lot of photoshop as a result you don't always get what you see.

If it wasn't going to add lag to the store, I wouldn't mind seeing demos on what would essentially be dummy.  There is a shop I knew of that did that with their products or they'd have it kinda hanging in place of where an ad would be.   They'd have all points of view filled or sealed to something to fill in where you'd have your body to prevent theft and left it unscripted.

[Cinos Field]

9 minutes ago, Mortified Wanderer said:

If the timed demo means I get to actually see all of the outfit or item I want to buy, I'd be happy.   

It would give me a better idea of if it fits my general style without having to assume I'm getting what's being advertised, ads tend to use a lot of photoshop as a result you don't always get what you see.

If it wasn't going to add lag to the store, I wouldn't mind seeing demos on what would essentially be dummy.  There is a shop I knew of that did that with their products or they'd have it kinda hanging in place of where an ad would be.   They'd have all points of view filled or sealed to something to fill in where you'd have your body to prevent theft and left it unscripted.

Oh, it's a great idea for stuff that isn't rigged. But for rigged clothes you do kinda have to see how it moves with the body.

[Nick0678]

33 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

they are looking for those that do impulsive buying, pressure sales, buy-now-or-never types of people.

Yeah it sort of goes like that. If you like it you will buy it, if not well you didn't like it enough.

Anyway in most cases the creators put the time limit so people won't simply get the demo to take a photo with it and then toss it away but that still happens anyway unless it says everywhere on it's textures:"DEMO" so once again it's kind of pointless.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Nick0678