Do you need to vent about things COVID-19?

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

It’s a crying shame that such working conditions were allowed, much less pretty much blessed by the previous admin’s cdc. 

Yea, I'm just kind of glad our old company sold to the new company.. Because this new company is more about keeping their employee's and keeping them safe..

Her company is more in lines with the one that used to own our plant.. They have rules, but they're not really enforced if they like ya.

Just real lazy and laxed...Naa it's just lazy..

Everyone at our plant has to wear either a face shield or a mask and they give you really good face shields and really nice masks too.. They aren't cheap when it comes to their employees..

We're getting another pay increase this month, which is supposed to catch us up making the same as the rest of their plants. which should bump those out in production to about 3 to 4 dollars more an hour.. plus a really nice bonus coming up next month too..

Sorry I kinda started to stray there a bit.. But I'm just really happy with the new company now.. hehehe

[Pamela Galli]

4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I look at those things.. But I also look at when the country first started to get laxed again in the summer..

Remember those first stories about people coming back out flooding boardwalks and parks and things like that..

I was like, It's not over yet ,get away from each other!! Winter is still coming you fools!! \o/

Here we are now, just like 100 years ago..

 

I will say though, we had a bad patch at work where it seemed  like there was always a couple people out because of either being around someone that was infected or they were infected..

It's been about 3 weeks since I've heard of anything at the plant since then.. Knocks on wood and hoping that's a good sign.

People coming back out and spreading infection was because the administration embraced herd immunity, opened up businesses prematurely, mocked mask wearers, and threw huge superspreader events.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Pamela Galli

[Pamela Galli]

44 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, really without going into details as I have plans now and must go.  I'm angry at COVID, it's going to change the world period.   

When your car runs out of gas I guess you get angry at it.

Covid has been and is changing the world, but not in ways you would like.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Pamela Galli

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Pamela Galli said:

People coming back out and spreading infection were because the administration embraced herd immunity, opened up businesses prematurely, mocked mask wearers, and threw huge superspreader events.

A lot of it was state and local governments also..

After being cooped up, people didn't need here too much to get back outside..

I picture it like me messing with my dogs when I'm about to let them outside.. they start to hear the familiar words.. Hey guys, do you wanna go *Then the ears go up as the heads rise up from the floor* To the KITCHEN!  Heads go back down..

Hey Guys* Ears and heads pop back up tongues hanging out their mouth's looking all excited* How you doin? Heads drop back down..

Hey Guys,  * Ears pop up head pops up and both on their feet* Do..........You....*tails wagging like crazy so excited that they are meeping* WannaGoOutSIDE!!  * running in place until they gain traction*

hehehe

[Pamela Galli]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

A lot of it was state and local governments also..

After being cooped up, people didn't need here too much to get back outside..

I picture it like me messing with my dogs when I'm about to let them outside.. they start to hear the familiar words.. Hey guys, do you wanna go *Then the ears go up as the heads rise up from the floor* To the KITCHEN!  Heads go back down..

Hey Guys* Ears and heads pop back up tongues hanging out their mouth's looking all excited* How you doin? Heads drop back down..

Hey Guys,  * Ears pop up head pops up and both on their feet* Do..........You....*tails wagging like crazy so excited that they are meeping* WannaGoOutSIDE!!  * running in place until they gain traction*

hehehe

Australian dogs must not feel the same.

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Pamela Galli said:

Australian dogs must not feel the same.

Mine are a Mastiff and a Dane.

[Pamela Galli]

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

As much as I wish it were not true, I'm afraid you are right, Maddy.  I know too many people whose default behaviors are driven by envy, greed, and resentment. It is hard to get into a rational debate with people who have a visceral distrust of anyone who appears to be smarter, richer, more handsome, luckier .... than they see themselves to be. 

I find myself retreating into silence rather than confronting entrenched resentment on either of the political extremes, and I dislike myself for it.  It is not appeasement, because I have not ceded ground, but I have not defended it either.  I find myself haunted by the maxim that all that is necessary for evil to prevail in the world is for people of good will to do nothing.  And yet I justify my reaction by quoting the opposing advice: "Never mud wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty and the pig loves it."

Chamberlain wrestled w the pig. Churchill declared war on it and made sausage. 

After 400 years of this outrage, it’s time to make sausage.

[Rolig Loon]

7 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

After 400 years of this outrage, it’s time to make sausage.

I know,  Pam. As I said,  I don't feel proud of myself for being silent as much as I  am these days. I am not drawn naturally to standing out in crowds,  despite having forced myself to do it for a long time before I retired. I don't like the feeling of resignation, but I am tired of trying to convince the inconvinceables. I don't even like sausage. 

[Pamela Galli]

8 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I know,  Pam. As I said,  I don't feel proud of myself for being silent as much as I  am these days. I am not drawn naturally to standing out in crowds,  despite having forced myself to do it for a long time before I retired. I don't like the feeling of resignation, but I am tired of trying to convince the inconvinceables. I don't even like sausage. 

I don’t believe they can be convinced of anything, a waste of time to try. But we can call it out when we see it. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Pamela Galli said:

Churchill declared war on it and made sausage.

And left, as part of his legacy, and Roosevelt's, half of Europe in the thrall of a dictator every bit as brutal as Hitler.

Not a great example, perhaps?

[Pamela Galli]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I think this past year of all the BLM protests and riots have likely ticked a lot of people off to a point where they are starting to have some resentments they did not have before as well as that if they are being told over and over again that they have white superiority, they are actually taking it on.  It works that way unconsciously. Whatever one believes about another, they will unconsciously take that belief on. As you believe, so it will be.

So it is the fault of BLM marchers that the white supremacists are resentful and angry. The same BLM marchers that caused people all over America and the world to pour onto the streets chanting NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE day after day. That made the innocent white supremacists, who were told they “have white superiority” , so mad! If only they hadn’t been told they were superior! Then maybe they would not have tried to violently overturn the election and kill five people.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Pamela Galli

[Pamela Galli]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And left, as part of his legacy, and Roosevelt's, half of Europe in the thrall of a dictator every bit as brutal as Hitler.

Not a great example, perhaps?

Actually Stalin was worse. 

But why do you think England and America, fighting with the Soviets against Hitler, should have declared hot war on them instead of the cold war we did launch? 

[Qie Niangao]

"White supremacy" is learned. Some learn it from birth, and those are kind of a lost cause. We've been waiting over a century for them to die out, generation after generation. The last few years, though, that "learning" expanded through propaganda -- and more propaganda that eventually coupled white privilege with refusal to wear masks, faith in snake-oil cures, and even belief in the Big Lie to the point of sedition.

Some of those people started out, before 2016, feeling themselves economic victims of modernity, identifying with displaced privilege, but a whole lot of them were taught to feel this, given license to be deplorable and proud of it, through race- and religion-based propaganda and unprecedented abuse of power.

We must not underestimate the power of persuasion. It's why the advertising industry is so powerful it can fund a technology revolution. Persuading people to buy the right brand of laundry detergent is a lot harder than swaying the already vulnerable to believe some "other" is responsible for their ox being gored.

Can they be brought back to again "unify" with civil society? Some, yeah, but not through appeasement. Negotiation is one thing, capitulation is quite another.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

34 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Actually Stalin was worse. 

But why do you think England and America, fighting with the Soviets against Hitler, should have declared hot war on them instead of the cold war we did launch? 

Well, no. Which is actually precisely my point.

You have broken this down into a neat and highly reductive binary: "appeasement" or "total war." What I'm suggesting is that neither, employing your own historical example, has produced very satisfactory results.

Chamberlain enabled Hitler through appeasement. Churchill helped get rid of Hitler, but enabled Stalin, though war. I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference, to be honest, in the results of these two approaches. The "sausage making" that you are endorsing actually helped produce a situation in some ways even worse than Chamberlain faced.

What is needed is a way to break out of this violent and ultimately profitless cycle of one or the other. God knows, we don't want to appease the racists, the fascists, the misogynists, and the homophobes. But total war against them isn't going to work either.

Surely we're sufficiently clever and subtle to come up with some alternate strategies? Perhaps ones that strike at the root of these evils, rather than seek (fruitlessly) to eradicate the symptoms?

Edited February 6, 2021 by Scylla Rhiadra

[FairreLilette]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Surely we're sufficiently clever and subtle to come up with some alternate strategies?

I believe in America there is something called the "Do No Harm" act(?) which could change things as far as archaic if not outright erroneous discrimination.  I think it's a good act.  I don't believe any religion should be able to harm anyone and Jesus didn't either.  Actually, Jesus said:  "Love does no harm to it's neighbor" and "that love is the fulfillment of the law" (the OT laws of Moses).  Unfortunately if we have to fight religion with religion and truth with truth, then so be it. 

As far as striking at the "root".  I agree.  We need to end the "ghetto" of America where people were put when their land was taken from them.  We need appropriate and affordable opportunities for all. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Pamela Galli]

54 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, no. Which is actually precisely my point.

You have broken this down into a neat and highly reductive binary: "appeasement" or "total war." What I'm suggesting is that neither, employing your own historical example, has produced very satisfactory results.

Chamberlain enabled Hitler through appeasement. Churchill helped get rid of Hitler, but enabled Stalin, though war. I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference, to be honest, in the results of these two approaches. The "sausage making" that you are endorsing actually helped produce a situation in some ways even worse than Chamberlain faced.

What is needed is a way to break out of this violent and ultimately profitless cycle of one or the other. God knows, we don't want to appease the racists, the fascists, the misogynists, and the homophobes. But total war against them isn't going to work either.

Surely we're sufficiently clever and subtle to come up with some alternate strategies? Perhaps ones that strike at the root of these evils, rather than seek (fruitlessly) to eradicate the symptoms?

You are interested in convincing white supremacists that Black and brown people are their equal. Laudable. (But just see what happens if you ever  ask them to say it.)

I am interested in justice, before anything else. I don’t want to hear the delusional, ignorant garbage that leads them to think they are entitled to overturn our election and murder anyone who gets in their way.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, no. Which is actually precisely my point.

You have broken this down into a neat and highly reductive binary: "appeasement" or "total war." What I'm suggesting is that neither, employing your own historical example, has produced very satisfactory results.

Chamberlain enabled Hitler through appeasement. Churchill helped get rid of Hitler, but enabled Stalin, though war. I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference, to be honest, in the results of these two approaches. The "sausage making" that you are endorsing actually helped produce a situation in some ways even worse than Chamberlain faced.

What is needed is a way to break out of this violent and ultimately profitless cycle of one or the other. God knows, we don't want to appease the racists, the fascists, the misogynists, and the homophobes. But total war against them isn't going to work either.

Surely we're sufficiently clever and subtle to come up with some alternate strategies? Perhaps ones that strike at the root of these evils, rather than seek (fruitlessly) to eradicate the symptoms?

I'm agreed that neither works. I'm frankly at a loss these days to identify a method that will work for the most extreme of the MAGA folks. I worry that their imagined disenfranchisement will become real as they're shunted further from the mainstream. We needn't wage war against someone for them to perceive it as such. We've seen people here claim that ignoring them is akin to censoring them.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Rowan Amore]

People never really listen.

[Arielle Popstar]

A few years ago an acquaintance had to serve a few years in a Canadian Federal penitentiary. Before that time he was friends with a Black guy and they chummed together regularly. After he served his time he came out changed in that he had become racist and had some disparaging remarks about his former friend. Being curious I prodded him about why he had changed and what he told me sounded very much like the story shared here:

https://prisonwriters.com/racism-in-prison/

Though in time the acquaintance did lose his animosity towards people of colour, it made me wonder how much sharing his experience would affect/infect others and alter their own views of POC.

[Silent Mistwalker]

8 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Dammit.

Makes another spot for herself on the bench next to Ceka.

If you aren't spending 5 minutes staring at the screen trying to figure out what the hell went wrong so you can fix it every time it happens... you're doing better than I am.

[JanuarySwan]

2 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

I am interested in justice, before anything else. I don’t want to hear the delusional, ignorant garbage that leads them to think they are entitled to overturn our election and murder anyone who gets in their way.

Justice with what...impeaching Trump?  Your posts are nothing but ragging on Republicans.  You offer no solutions to really help those who need hands on help, not a Trump impeachment, like that is going to help people.  It isn't.  

From what I'm reading from you Pamela is all hate and it's about Trump and republicans in general.  

You even laughed when a very important solution for justice was put forth.   Your just another "whiner" and that is all you are.  Or in other words, troll.  

Edited February 7, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

[Luna Bliss]

19 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Justice with what

 

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

I am interested in justice, before anything else. I don’t want to hear the delusional, ignorant garbage that leads them to think they are entitled to overturn our election and murder anyone who gets in their way.

I'd like justice too, some accountability for what happened, but even if we don't get as much justice as we should I have hope that we can stuff this craziness partway back into Pandora's box where it always lurks beneath the surface, waiting to be brought forth by a major crisis (Covid) or an incompetent ruler (Trump). Extremists have always been a problem in America, the bigots and autocrats, from the John Birch society to the McCarthyism fiasco. In these past crises though the sane part of the Republican party was able to oust them, but there's hardly anybody left in the party that can do that now. Simply put, currently we have a fascist Republican party filled with conspiracy theorists and racists, committed to Trumpism, and it's up to others outside their party to keep them in check.

However since Covid is temporary (hopefully), and since Trumps powers are diminished via not being in office, it looks like conditions could improve as long as the autocrats don't have the ultimate say in our affairs (fingers crossed for 2022).

More positive news -- the Aspen society is working on solutions for the disinformation plague that contributes greatly to such disorder, and today I heard about laws being proposed regarding domestic terrorism (currently there is no specific law against it).

Edited February 7, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[JanuarySwan]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Simply put, currently we have a fascist Republican party filled with conspiracy theorists and racists, committed to Trumpism, and it's up to others outside their party to keep them in check.

That's total bull.  I know Republicans who are not fascist nor "Trumpies" or whatever you personally call them.

I think some of you want to see Trump impeached as it will benefit the Democratic party, not people.  

The things some of you speak about don't include things that will help anyone other than the Democratic party.  

Things need to change but you don't need to go off your rocker saying things like "no peace".  That's absurd.