Do you need to vent about things COVID-19?

[Rowan Amore]

Some people are more of a hindrance to BLM than they are helpful.

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I find it interesting that others can flood the forum with lengthy, mostly political posts but you say nothing.  Yet when I have 3 long posts...

 

Um. What? Are you trying to claim my post was directed AT you personally? It was not aimed at any one person in particular. Good lord, you flatter yourself too much.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I find it interesting that others can flood the forum with lengthy, mostly political posts but you say nothing.  Yet when I have 3 long posts...

 

Um. What? Are you trying to claim my post was directed AT you personally? It was not aimed at any one person in particular. Good lord, you flatter yourself too much.

Yet somehow, when the thread includes more political narrative over a period of time your admonition, your accusation or disturbance over politics being on the forum always comes after MY posts.  Not the first time, sweetheart.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

I remember Gage posted something that said on the 4th the U.S. had 5000 deaths, but I haven't seen numbers that high from my sources:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yet somehow, when the thread includes more political narrative over a period of time your admonition, your accusation or disturbance over politics being on the forum always comes after MY posts.  Not the first time, sweetheart.

You've let your imagination run away with you. I scrolled through 3 or 4 pages worth of politically charged posts before making mine without even seeing yours and you are accusing me of attacking you. 

Sweetheart? Really? 

Not everything is about you. Not everything I post is about you. In fact the vast majority of my posts have absolutely nothing to do with you. The thought of you never crosses my mind 99.99999999999999% of the time.

Good day.

[Drayke Newall]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

@Drayke Newall

I'm a little hesitant to tell someone from another country what the problems in their country are -- after all, that has been one of my biggest complaints on these threads (people from other countries imagining they know everything about the U.S.). At the same time, I know one person (you) cannot have accurate views for everybody in a country (heaven forbid a racist person from the South in the U.S. ever speak for me, for example). But a few clicks away was news that contradicted a lot of what you've said. For example, this claim you've made that all the people in your country followed Covid lockdown orders and using it as a reason why your country fared well while mine did not -- doesn't seem to be so:
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-11-03-20-intl/h_4bd65a0d63eb67a805521825199ce976

Look Luna, I know you mean well but I never said we all didn't follow the rules and there were not problems. I said that if the rules were not followed then there were penalties. Just like that article implies, they were arrested. The vast majority of Australian's 99% followed the rules, it was only some wackos that didn't led by a particular celebrity over here called Pete Evans who has been the bane of everyone in regards to his views. Basically the Trump of Australia - thank God he isn't in politics.

The other thing you have to realise is that the Victorian Government went to far with regards to their lockdown imposing a curfew and various other rules AGAINST the top medical advice. Not to mention that it had just come out that the Victorian Government signed up secretly (didn't even tell the federal government who control these things) to China's Belt and Road scheme. There was a lot of angst towards the Victorian Government, the Premier in particular due to that. He was and still is labelled Dictator Dan in reference to his conformity to China. That is why the protests happened.

Quote

I do wonder too, why you affiliate yourself so much with the right-wing in the U.S., as it seems many in your country are very aversive to what the 'right' has become here. Issues regarding racism, abortion, gun control, immigrants -- many conservatives in your country don't like the ideas the 'right' in America hold:

Australia is generally a centre right and left country and no I don't in anyway affiliate myself with US right-wing I am Centre - I like a little of both worlds. I, like most Australians believe in Gun Laws, environment protection (within reason), free health care, free education, welfare, free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of expression and am against racism etc.

With regards to immigration like most Australians, I believe that people who want to immigrate here MUST go through official channels and that applies to refugees as well - no crossing borders illegally. If they come here illegally then they should be turned back as they still are now or stuck somewhere outside of mainland Australia UNTIL they are processed legally as they are now. Labor party here (your democrats) famously lost an election twice (one they lost power) due to reversing the turn back the boats policy. Its a lot more complicated than that but that's the gist.

Australian's are a friendly people but the few things we hate are people jumping the queue, going against the majority/finding loopholes to get a better position in life all of which we have an Australian phrase for here and that is called Tall Poppy Syndrome. It is also why we cant stand it when American Celebrities decide to announce their thoughts and policies on others when they should just shut-up and live their own lives (I mean that in the nicest way).

Biden is no better in that in his phone call with our PM tried to get us to drop a policy against Google/facebook we have atm trying to get through. How dare he interfere with our policies and laws. That is for our government to do not your President!

Quote

You might investigate and learn what has happened to the Republican party here -- after that I doubt you'd defend them as much as you have over some months. Once again, this is not a partisan thing for me -- I am not a Democrat and am not impressed with Democrats over the last decades -- but the Republican party has gone nuts. You say you don't like Trump, and well neither do I, but unfortunately the Republican party has kind of become him.
Try researching conservatives who left the Republican party in disgust (the Lincoln project).

I don't like any politician period or any party. Australia has entirely different voting rules that I am not going to get into, however there is a reason why some argue here that the minimum age of voting should be increased from 18 as opposed to your senate who some want to decrease it.

Over here you don't vote for an individual. We don't (at least we shouldn't) vote a party out because we don't like the Prime Minister as chances are we will just get one just as bad. We vote based on policies and then live with whoever we get as we don't choose who is Prime Minister the party in power does. We famously went through 5 Prime Ministers recently in five years.

Vote for policies and not the person. The difference is, you have no limitations in America who can become the head of state. Here it is a politician who generally has been a politician for decades and built up a trust. In America, your head of state can be a homeless person on the street if he gets enough financial backing or a Movie star or a real estate Mogul who has been bankrupt so many times you would run out of digits to count.

This is getting long and as I have tried so hard to state, the thread shouldn't be about politics.

I will say this however in relation to your other reply to me. Forget trump, forget that he was an idiot, forget political divides and look at the policy that was announced in early April in America. That staged policy and lockdowns where signed off of by your CDC, scientist and top medical experts (knowing trump he wasn't even in the room). Sure trump said x and/or y stupidly, but the policy itself was sound. If that was followed by your states (your states control what the state does not federal - just like here) then you would have had a better outcome.

As for what the administration did, same happened in EU, England, Sweden etc. The only plan that has held water is the staged lockdown and quarantining infected done in Aus and NZ and what was suggested in America in April but refused by state governments and the people in America.

That has been my point ENTIRELY but certain people just don't get that - not implying anyone in particular. As soon as Trump is mentioned the gloves are off and everyone misses the point.

Work with your government whoever that is to control the outbreak, don't just refuse the advice because of politics.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Jordyn McGregor]

8 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

With everything being deadly where you guys live, the world figured you had plenty enough to worry about already.. hehehe

 

Actually we have nothing deadly here in NZ.  You are thinking of Australia...where EVERYTHING can kill you!

[Arielle Popstar]

8 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Look up the "15 days to slow the spread" announcement by Trump on March 16 which was then extended to 45 days on March 30. Link

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh that's just pathetic.

 

I admired the simplicity of his announcement. Much easier to follow then Ontario's color coded levels and yet seems many either didn't get the memo or promptly ignored it. In either case it was not for a lack of trying by the Trump administration as you were implying.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

38 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Much easier to follow then Ontario's color coded levels

Lolwhut? You think those are complicated?

How do you manage traffic lights?

[Drayke Newall]

3 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Actually we have nothing deadly here in NZ.  You are thinking of Australia...where EVERYTHING can kill you!

Hey come now, we do have a few plants that don't kill you. Just have to watch out for the ones that paralyze you with pain, put poison on your skin or the other ones that explode if you light them.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[FairreLilette]

7 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh that's just pathetic.

It isn't.  It's what happened and then states took over.  There were states saying "we're not New York" and didn't want to lock down at all even though California had been in lockdown for quite awhile, I think it was March 3rd California started.  All the infectious disease experts said it would eventually get to the more rural towns which it did and their reasoning at the time is because people were fleeing New York and other big cities and going to their vacation country rural homes but that was only part of why it would eventually hit rural towns/states as well.  Governors and mayors have jurisdiction now and have for a long time to issue lockdowns, at least in California they do.  

Dealing with America is like dealing with 50 separate countries in Europe and then magnify that county by county, and I don't think people who don't live here understand that.  

7 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Do you think I can affect whether a vaccine makes it to my town? If the government didn't make it so I doubt we'd ever get over this thing.

We have the vaccine now and it's inching along.  What we really need is a congress who will respect and work with our president and I hope we get there sooner than later.  With Trump, it was mayhem and I'm glad it's over.  However, I do not put all the blame on all Republicans as many are quite good people and our neighbors, friends, co-workers and more.  

It is time to move forward and knock off all this bashing stuff.  It's gotten old.  My Governor and Mayor had jurisdiction over me, not Trump and have since March 2020.  

Edited February 8, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Arielle Popstar]

5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Lolwhut? You think those are complicated?

Guess you didn't get the full memo for Ontario either. Specific rules depending on when and where you can drink, dance, sing, play brass and wind instruments, exercise indoors or out, sports etc etc. Read all about it:

https://files.ontario.ca/moh-covid-19-response-framework-keeping-ontario-safe-and-open-en-2020-11-13.pdf

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It isn't.  It's what happened and then states took over.    

Oh please. Show me one time when Kim Reynolds ever defied the slightest whispered whim of Trump. She's just one example, but a timely one, as she's still sacrificing Iowans to Trump's murderous, maskless approach to COVID:

 

[Garnet Psaltery]

I can't get to the vaccination centre so I'll just carry on isolating.  There's a part of my mind that wonders whether older people are being given it first to see if there are any show-stopping side-effects, but that's far too cynical.

[Amina Sopwith]

4 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

I can't get to the vaccination centre so I'll just carry on isolating.  There's a part of my mind that wonders whether older people are being given it first to see if there are any show-stopping side-effects, but that's far too cynical.

I have a number of medical professional friends in the NHS, and while none of them has anything good to say about this government, they do not believe this is the case.

[FairreLilette]

5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh please. Show me one time when Kim Reynolds ever defied the slightest whispered whim of Trump. She's just one example, but a timely one, as she's still sacrificing Iowans to Trump's murderous, maskless approach to COVID:

 

That's on her, not Trump.  Trump isn't even here.  Do you think Trump has put on evil spell on her or something?  

[Luna Bliss]

10 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It is time to move forward and knock off all this bashing stuff.  It's gotten old.  My Governor and Mayor had jurisdiction over me, not Trump and have since March 2020. 

You have a very simplistic and naive conception of how government operates. While on paper it appears state power is separate from federal power, in order for any official to remain in the good graces of their chosen party they must tow the party line to a greater or lesser degree. In other words, though the state law technically does allow them to deviate, if they stray too far they will pay a price. 

[Luna Bliss]

34 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh please. Show me one time when Kim Reynolds ever defied the slightest whispered whim of Trump. She's just one example, but a timely one, as she's still sacrificing Iowans to Trump's murderous, maskless approach to COVID:

 

Expand   Expand  

That's on her, not Trump.  Trump isn't even here.  Do you think Trump has put on evil spell on her or something? 

Well that's an interesting question about Trump and "evil spells", and one that fascinates me enough to cause much study (still ongoing) regarding the phenomenon of the "strongman" and how he changes a democracy into an autocracy -- how he is able to get a crowd to follow his wishes instead of the rule of law in a former or crumbling democratic society, and what can be done about it once we see it emerging.

What causes a cult to form, basically, is the question. I imagine we all want simple solutions when reality becomes too chaotic and painful for us, and so we're all susceptible to some single person who seems to know the way. We can relax then, as thinking and sorting out reality is hard work. It's bizarre really, that a person could become so dependent on another for truth that they drink the Jim Jones poison koolaid and die, or believe the tales of a madman and are convinced that by committing suicide a spaceship would arrive and take them to a better world (Heaven's Gate suicide cult). Or believe that they are a chosen people who should rid the world of the impure and conquer it so that their superior race could rule (the Hitler cult).

I suggest reading about Trumpism and contemplating just how far we came along the 'Strongman' road, and then study what is going on within the Republican party as they struggle to wrest themselves from its clutches. As Marjorie Taylor Greene (the sick, QAnon congresswoman said), it's still his party (Trumps).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism

I'm not being partisan here (my goal is not to bash Trump), but instead I want to understand how we can have a government that would handle Covid and future plagues in the best way possible, and that would not happen with an autocracy (crosses fingers for the 2022 election).

[Qie Niangao]

36 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That's on her, not Trump.  Trump isn't even here.  Do you think Trump has put on evil spell on her or something?  

On Iowa voters, yes, if the rational definition of an "evil spell" is being in thrall to a cult of personality born of populist propaganda.

[Luna Bliss]

15 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Vote for policies and not the person. 

I will say this however in relation to your other reply to me. Forget trump, forget that he was an idiot, forget political divides and look at the policy that was announced in early April in America. That staged policy and lockdowns where signed off of by your CDC, scientist and top medical experts (knowing trump he wasn't even in the room). Sure trump said x and/or y stupidly, but the policy itself was sound. If that was followed by your states (your states control what the state does not federal - just like here) then you would have had a better outcome.

As for what the administration did, same happened in EU, England, Sweden etc. The only plan that has held water is the staged lockdown and quarantining infected done in Aus and NZ and what was suggested in America in April but refused by state governments and the people in America.

That has been my point ENTIRELY but certain people just don't get that - not implying anyone in particular. As soon as Trump is mentioned the gloves are off and everyone misses the point.

Work with your government whoever that is to control the outbreak, don't just refuse the advice because of politics.

I enjoyed hearing about how Australia operates. I've always had a fascination with Australia, in particular with the Aboriginal culture.

I don't think you understand how governments operate though (at least in the U.S. and how it currently evolved, and how Trumpism rules the Republican party now). I explained to Fairre how Trump had more sway over the state officials than some realize, so you can read my objection to your assertion that states had such control in their Covid response in my reply to her.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism

Edited February 8, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[FairreLilette]

37 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

On Iowa voters, yes, if the rational definition of an "evil spell" is being in thrall to a cult of personality born of populist propaganda.

It could be partly that but I was lying in bed last night thinking how the ring of power has taken some over in our congress.  Congress against Trump showed who really had the power and now they've tasted that power and don't want to let it go, like in the movie The Lord of the Rings.  Plus, in simple terms, Republicans are somewhat going "well, you didn't listen to OUR president, so now we won't listen to YOUR president".  And, even simpler, "I only listen to Republicans" but some democrats are doing that too..."I only listen to Democrats".  It's nuts.  It's nuts.  

Democrats are going to try to push the COVID RELIEF BILL through without Republicans.  That's the last I heard.  

But, the responsibility still falls on her whatever she believes or is trying to pull especially when, oh I guess it's not her president, has set forth a national mask wearing mandate.  

This is horrid actually.  I have never witnessed a government so dysfunctional that it's becoming dangerous.  

Edited February 8, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

16 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It could be partly that but I was lying in bed last night thinking how the ring of power has taken some over in our congress.  Congress against Trump showed who really had the power and now they've tasted that power and don't want to let it go, like in the movie The Lord of the Rings.  Plus, in simple terms, Republicans are somewhat going "well, you didn't listen to OUR president, so now we won't listen to YOUR president".  And, even simpler, "I only listen to Republicans" but some democrats are doing that too..."I only listen to Democrats".  It's nuts.  It's nuts.  

Democrats are going to try to push the COVID RELIEF BILL through without Republicans.  That's the last I heard.  

But, the responsibility still falls on her whatever she believes or is trying to pull especially when, oh I guess it's not her president, has set forth a national mask wearing mandate.  

This is horrid actually.  I have neve witnessed a government so dysfunctional that it's becoming dangerous.  

When a president does something like a national mandate for say ,wearing masks.. It's usually meant for things federal across the nation.. Federal buildings parks and things like that

They don't have the authority to do that everywhere else.

 There is federal then there is state and local.. He can suggest everyone where masks everywhere but he can't mandate it everywhere.. Same goes for social distancing and shutdowns of businesses and other things under state and local..

[Silent Mistwalker]

 

[FairreLilette]

19 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

When a president does something like a national mandate for say ,wearing masks.. It's usually meant for things federal across the nation.. Federal buildings parks and things like that

They don't have the authority to do that everywhere else.

 There is federal then there is state and local.. He can suggest everyone where masks everywhere but he can't mandate it everywhere.. Same goes for social distancing and shutdowns of businesses and other things under state and local..

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the whole thing because I know our state and local governments still have their own jurisdictions.  Thanks for clarifying that.  Then it would have to be deemed necessary at the state levels as a health hazard to not wear masks, I'm guessing.

But, if things couldn't just go from horror movie to worse, this was just released:  (If it was released before, I don't remember.  I think the below was "hinted" at but not documents were released before.)  

Startling documents released Monday point to heavy-handed interference by top Trump administration officials last summer to downplay the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic, through suppressed testing results and altered guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on reopening businesses and schools.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-team-suppressed-covid-tests-weakened-cdc-guidance-to-protect-president-report/ar-BB1dv874?li=BBnb7Kz

Edited February 8, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the whole thing because I know our state and local governments still have their own jurisdictions.  Thanks for clarifying that.  Then it would have to be deemed necessary at the state levels as a health hazard to not wear masks, I'm guessing.

But, if things couldn't just go from horror movie to worse, this was just released:  (If it was released before, I don't remember.  I think the below was "hinted" at but not documents were released before.)  

Startling documents released Monday point to heavy-handed interference by top Trump administration officials last summer to downplay the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic, through suppressed testing results and altered guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on reopening businesses and schools.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-team-suppressed-covid-tests-weakened-cdc-guidance-to-protect-president-report/ar-BB1dv874?li=BBnb7Kz

I didn't really pay attention to a lot of the news that all those news sites were putting out.. I watched a lot of the governors that were on almost every day and anything that wasn't edited to death.. I've seen a lot of stuff edited and clipped to change context over the years to where I can't trust a lot of what is said most of the time by the bigger news sites..

So i try to find as much unedited things and as much full information as i can and go from there.. I know one thing, if it's soaked in political tug-o-war, I close it right away and keep looking.