Do you need to vent about things COVID-19?

[Ceka Cianci]

8 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Australia is exactly like America as far as government goes. I am not sure who is in control of health policies in America federal or state, however it comes down to the Australian States individually to manage their own health plans and that included in the Pandemic. The Federal government gave the advice of the top medical expert and it was up to the states to implement whatever they deemed necessary based on that advice as well as their individual top medical experts.

The only thing the Federal government health wise did in the pandemic was stimulus and closing borders as that is all they can do.

The difference is they followed everything the Federal Government advised (within reason) because it was good for the people even if the Premiers where on the opposing side politically than the PM. Meetings were held at regular intervals over zoom between federal and state governments so everyone new everything others were doing. This would be the equivalent of the white house holding meetings with every governor in America.

As to Biden, whilst yes he has implemented a lot of mandates through executive orders, what is the point if people don't follow them. Take the mask mandate, where are the masks in the super bowl celebrations in the pic I posted? Laws, systems whatever mean nothing unless the citizens follow those laws and if they don't make them just like the rest of the world is learning they need to do and like Australia did.

When Victoria in winter had a second wave a law was passed to wear masks. The difference between that law and Biden's executive law was that you got fined if you didn't. The result, everyone wore a mask. That is what I am trying to imply, citizens need to comply and if they do not then they are punished. If they act like a child treat them like one. Yet some (not you) seem to think I'm somehow supporting Trump or his policies like Qie does. It is just weird how that even happens when my point was clear.

*Shrugs* I don't know, sometimes I don't know why I bother to respond to these kind of threads, usually ends up everyone takes everything out of context and then comes up with excuses as to why Australia and New Zealand don't matter. The one I like at the moment with the pandemic excuses is when they say that Australia's population density is 3.3 people/km² so of course we didn't suffer bad. Shows their education level in thinking we live in the desert not to mention our cities population densities are the same as many cities around the world.

I remember watching a youtube vid of someone playing an annihilation game, and he specifically tried to make Australia and NZ get destroyed... didn't happen. Then he gave Australia the dictator personality and made military training compulsory for all citizens. Australia took over the world in no time. Maybe like you say, Aus and NZ are just that good 'cause people forget about us.

I think the reason Australia and NZ are doing so well is.. Because you grow up getting bit by so many deadly things that a virus would be crazy to attempt startin a fight with your immune systems..hehehehe

I seen a video where Margot Robbie was talking about growing up with snakes in the house.. Her mom saying something like. Be a dear and get that snake for me, I'm busy at the moment..

Sure mom.

hehehe

 

[Drayke Newall]

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But, I can definitely say California adopted a plan similar to what Australia and New Zealand have.  It just did not work here.  It's a complete disaster zone here.   

I think it is a mix of too little to late and not enough. Allowing protesting still is just silly. Additionally, Australia and NZ are not allowed to even leave the country and don't allow any in to help stop the spread. That also plays a huge role in stopping it. One look at flight radar and you should see the amount of travellers that are coming into the USA from everywhere unchecked compared to Australia and NZ who have hardly any planes flying internationally except freight and getting aussies home.

[Drayke Newall]

4 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think the reason Australia and NZ are doing so well is.. Because you grow up getting bit by so many deadly things that a virus would be crazy to attempt startin a fight with your immune systems..hehehehe

I seen a video where Margot Robbie was talking about growing up with snakes in the house.. Her mom saying something like. Be a dear and get that snake for me, I'm busy at the moment..

Sure mom.

hehehe

Lol rule of thumb coming to Australia, ALWAYS check your shoes and under the toilet lid.

:EDIT:

Proof of why: Snake attack: Woman bitten by 5-foot python in toilet in Australia (usatoday.com)

Pictures of spiders and snakes in footwear turning U.S. travellers off Australia | Daily Mail Online

Second link is a bit graphic lol.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Lol rule of thumb coming to Australia, ALWAYS check your shoes and under the toilet lid.

That's a rule I always live by here too, plus shake down all the beds.. I always flush before any of the kids  or i go  also because them critters love to hang out on the underside edge..

Shoes always get shook and slapped and checked on the inside no matter how long they have been off..

Our bed has to be a foot away from the wall also..

I used to be really bad about it and had double sided tape on all the legs and over all the beds to grab them suckers trying to sneak  up from below or repelling down from above..

I'm not as bad as I used to be now though hehehe

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Ceka Cianci

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

You must be joking. Trump was pushing states to reopen faster despite per-capita death rates orders of magnitude higher than the very worst conditions ever encountered in Australia.

Just try to find, for example anywhere Trump even hinted -- let alone urged -- South Dakota to clamp down as it was stacking COVID corpses like cordwood. Meanwhile, instead, a maskless Trump held superspreader rallies across the US, and repeating urges to reopen faster in the face of mounting infections, hospitalizations, test positivity rates, and deaths.

Look up the "15 days to slow the spread" announcement by Trump on March 16 which was then extended to 45 days on March 30. Link

Two weeks ago, President Trump entered the White House briefing room and announced an aggressive plan to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

Stay home for 15 days, he told Americans. Avoid groups of more than 10 people. "If everyone makes this change, or these critical changes, and sacrifices now, we will rally together as one nation and we will defeat the virus," he said.

On Sunday, the night before Day 15, Trump told the country to stick with the plan for another month, until April 30.

"The better you do, the faster this whole nightmare will end," Trump said.

Quote

The President’s Coronavirus Guidelines for America: 15 Days to Slow the Spread 1) Listen to and follow the directions of your state and local authorities. 2) If you feel sick, stay home. Do not go to work. Contact your medical provider. 3) If your children are sick, keep them at home. Do not send them to school. Contact your medical provider. 4) If someone in your household has tested positive for the coronavirus, keep the entire household at home. Do not go to work. Do not go to school. Contact your medical provider. 5) If you are an older person, stay home and away from other people. 6) If you are a person with a serious underlying health condition that can put you at increased risk (for example, a condition that impairs your lung or heart function or weakens your immune system), stay home and away from other people. 7) Even if you are young, or otherwise healthy, you are at risk and your activities can increase the risk for others. It is critical that you do your part to stop the spread of the coronavirus: a. Work or engage in schooling from home whenever possible. b. If you work in a critical infrastructure industry, as defined by the Department of Homeland Security, such as healthcare services and pharmaceutical and food supply, you have a special responsibility to maintain your normal work schedule. You and your employers should follow CDC guidance to protect your health at work. c. Avoid social gatherings in groups of more than 10 people. d. Avoid eating or drinking in bars, restaurants, and food courts – use drive-thru, pickup, or delivery options. e. Avoid discretionary travel, shopping trips, and social visits. f. Do not visit nursing homes or retirement or long-term care facilities unless to provide critical assistance. 😎 Practice good hygiene: a. Wash your hands, especially after touching any frequently used item or surface. b. Avoid touching your face. c. Sneeze or cough into a tissue, or the inside of your elbow. d. Disinfect frequently used items and surfaces as much as possible. * School operations can accelerate the spread of the coronavirus. Governors of states with evidence of community transmission should close schools in affected and surrounding areas. Governors should close schools in communities that are near areas of community transmission, even if those areas are in neighboring states. In addition, state and local officials should close schools where coronavirus has been identified in the population associated with the school. States and localities that close schools need to address childcare needs of critical responders, as well as the nutritional needs of children. ** Older people are particularly at risk from the coronavirus. All states should follow Federal guidance and halt social visits to nursing homes and retirement and long-term care facilities. *** In states with evidence of community transmission, bars, restaurants, food courts, gyms, and other indoor and outdoor venues where groups of people congregate should be closed.

 

[FairreLilette]

57 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

I think it is a mix of too little to late and not enough. Allowing protesting still is just silly. Additionally, Australia and NZ are not allowed to even leave the country and don't allow any in to help stop the spread. That also plays a huge role in stopping it. One look at flight radar and you should see the amount of travellers that are coming into the USA from everywhere unchecked compared to Australia and NZ who have hardly any planes flying internationally except freight and getting aussies home.

California has been pretty strict compared to other states with lockdown since November although I'm not sure what is enforced via penalties and what isn't.  I've stayed in and ordered everything over the internet or we have one person who goes to the store for a bunch of us as we have at least 110 people in my building that would use common doors, elevator, etc.  Imagine having 110 different people touching your doorknobs every day returning from who knows where.  That's why I don't go out at all now.  I have plans for after I am vaccinated to go out and about and rebuild a life but I want to stay well prior to vaccination.    

As far as the protesting, I simply mentioned it because it is one thing we are allowed to do here.  However, the protesting has turned into protesting the Governor himself with protestors calling for a recall against the Governor to oust him.   I'm not with that.  The Governor acted according to the law here.

Edited February 7, 2021 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

didn't California have something around the holidays where if you left after a certain date that you couldn't get back in unless you were tested and quarantined for so many days?

It might have been one of the cities though too .. I know there was something  around that time.

 

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think I remember Lil saying something about it around that time.. It may have just been for the holidays.. It was probably to slow down the boost of cases that we would get from the holidays.

 

 

The California COVID statement at the time (just before Christmas), was that ANYONE coming into the state - even residents returning from out of state - were 'recommended' to quarantine for 14 days. My step-son works for the Federal Government, at the Naval base.  Their stance was that the California 'recommendation' was to be a MANDATE for their employees.  Thus if my step-son left the state for the holidays, when he returned he could not come back to work for 14 days after the date that he re-entered the state.  His wife works for a Vet and that employer also took the same stance -- that the 'recommended' quarantine was a mandate, at least as far as how soon she could return to work.  Granted, they could have claimed that they did not leave the state during their vacation time, but neither of them were going to lie about that.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Some of you folks just don't get it. 

Anything and everything Republican or conservative is BAD.  Anything Democrat or liberal is GOOD.  And the two sides must always disagree on everything and hate each other with an intense passion.  There is no gray area; there is no middle ground; there are no exceptions.  That is all this country knows anymore.

[FairreLilette]

21 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

 

The California COVID statement at the time (just before Christmas), was that ANYONE coming into the state - even residents returning from out of state - were 'recommended' to quarantine for 14 days. My step-son works for the Federal Government, at the Naval base.  Their stance was that the California 'recommendation' was to be a MANDATE for their employees.  Thus if my step-son left the state for the holidays, when he returned he could not come back to work for 14 days after the date that he re-entered the state.  His wife works for a Vet and that employer also took the same stance -- that the 'recommended' quarantine was a mandate, at least as far as how soon she could return to work.  Granted, they could have claimed that they did not leave the state during their vacation time, but neither of them were going to lie about that.

Thanks for that clarification.  I do remember hearing something about it now but I also thought people weren't supposed to leave the state of California because we were in lockdown.  Many self quarantines were voluntary at Thanksgiving time and I had a friend who did self quarantine for 14 days after seeing her son on Thanksgiving.  

But, in all fairness to Qie and others with their resentment towards Trump, Trump later vacillated a lot and once it came near for his rallies, he did seem to throw caution to the wind.   I live in L.A. County, so I followed more or less what was going on here and didn't plan to attend any Trump rallies either as I'm not a Trump supporter.  

But, I feel Trump is water under the bridge now and let the authorities deal with it (the happenings at the Capital and the insurrection) because for one the whole Republican party is not to blame and because what will happen will happen.  President Biden could pardon Trump though.  Ford pardoned Nixon.  

 

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Ford pardoned Nixon

Well, Ford had become Nixon's VP after Agnew resigned so they were from the same party (Rep).  Almost everyone thought it was a bad move and probably contributed to Ford losing in the next election.

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I also thought people weren't supposed to leave the state of California because we were in lockdown. 

None of the states every fully restricted travel during any of the lockdowns, but many did implement policies either recommending or requiring quarantine for folks coming in.  Those that did require quarantines were often giving out huge fines to people that did not comply -- most notably Hawaii.

 

[JanuarySwan]

55 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Some of you folks just don't get it. 

Anything and everything Republican or conservative is BAD.  Anything Democrat or liberal is GOOD.  And the two sides must always disagree on everything and hate each other with an intense passion.  There is no gray area; there is no middle ground; there are no exceptions.  That is all this country knows anymore.

I get it as that's the vibes I get from this board, but it may even be worse in that it's causing people to be enemies.  I read many Republicans at the Capital that day were horrified with what happened as what happened was carried out by extremists or alt-right and perhaps even Libertarian.  It is not fully known yet.

I have Republican friends and family who are not extremists.  They may be conservative and especially in the homophobic area, but I still love my family.  I can only hope they change some day but I doubt they will.  I have both liberals and conservatives in my family, and both liberal and conservative in religion as well.   I think there are all kinds of beliefs in my family and with family friends.  It's never been like this before with Trump where it's vicious.   I never read Trump tweets myself.  But, I really have had enough.  And, if he's impeached or if he isn't, it's out of our hands anyways.  That's how I feel about it.  

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Look up the "15 days to slow the spread" announcement by Trump on March 16 

Oh that's just pathetic.

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

16 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

However since Covid is temporary (hopefully), and since Trumps powers are diminished via not being in office, it looks like conditions could improve...

The Coronavirus response was a disaster, and that is putting it mildly...we are heading up to 500,000 deaths in the U.S.

It is just a fact...a party that is overly focused on individualism and less community-minded (hello Republican party), does not handle a pandemic well (pandemics need a community response).

Expand   Expand  Expand  

This all has nothing to do with politics and why should it. It has EVERYTHING to do with people following the directions of FEDERAL government. Nothing more.

Well first, to your point, I agree it wasn't all Trump's fault, but he did set the tone that much of the country followed, and so I hold him much MUCH more accountable for all these excess Covid deaths.
 
Trump pretty much twiddled his thumbs in February -- it was mid-March before he advocated any lockdowns. If you compare this with other countries when they had similar sized cases of Covid he waited far too long.

But more importantly, in the decision as to who or what is to blame for the high rate of Covid in the U.S.,  a paragraph from Pamela gets to the heart of it:
"... the administration embraced herd immunity, opened up businesses prematurely, mocked mask wearers, and threw huge superspreader events."

See, all over the news here in the U.S. Trump was downplaying the seriousness of the virus, saying it will go away:

You can find many videos now that we watched on the news where Trump dissed mask-wearing, and even recently you can view the 4 Republicans, including the infamous QAnon congresswoman, barricaded from the rioters @ the Capitol, where others tried to get them to wear a mask. It became a symbol for the Republican party (nearly a religious symbol of freedom, strength, and Covid denial) not to wear a mask, although some did come around eventually. Here's the 4 congresspeople refusing to wear a mask (and several congresspeople in that room ended up with Covid most likely because of it):

I keep coming back to Jacinda in New Zealand and how her leadership was likely the cause of getting control of Covid there. I mean, can you imagine Trump appealing to the "collective good"? Imagining such a scene causes me to laugh out-loud.

https://theconversation.com/three-reasons-why-jacinda-arderns-coronavirus-response-has-been-a-masterclass-in-crisis-leadership-135541

Trump's inability to work with health officials was well known:

~~

Select Subcommittee Analysis Shows Pattern of Political Interference by the Trump Administration in Coronavirus Response
Oct 2, 2020
Press Release
Officials Attacked and Undermined Health Experts at Least 47 Times in 8 Months

Washington, D.C. (October 2, 2020) -- Today, the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis released a new staff analysis examining instances of political interference in the Trump Administration’s response to the coronavirus pandemic.  The analysis shows that Administration officials have repeatedly injected partisan politics into public health decisions  over the course of the pandemic.

 The report explains:  “The analysis demonstrates that over the last eight months, the Administration engaged in a persistent pattern of political interference—repeatedly overruling and sidelining top scientists and undermining Americans’ health to advance the President’s partisan agenda.”

 Today’s staff analysis found at least 47 separate incidents of political interference in the Administration’s coronavirus response spanning from February through September 2020.  These incidents have impacted every major facet of the Administration’s public health response and appear to be increasing in number and severity as the election draws near.

The analysis shows that President Trump, Vice President Pence, White House officials, and political appointees at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and other agencies have:

 ·       Pressured health experts to adopt the Administration’s talking points, even when they conflict with the science;

·       Criticized, sidelined, and fired experts who insisted on sharing accurate scientific information with the public;

·       Altered, delayed, and suppressed guidance and scientific reports on testing, protecting children, reopening schools, voting safely, and other topics;

·       Authorized questionable virus treatments over the objections of scientists;

·       Resisted efforts to ensure the safe development of a vaccine; and

·       Diverted $265 million from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration for an ad campaign to “defeat despair and inspire hope” weeks before Election Day.

~~

https://coronavirus.house.gov/sites/democrats.coronavirus.house.gov/files/10.2.20 Political Interference Report (1).pdf

Edited February 7, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

@Drayke Newall

I'm a little hesitant to tell someone from another country what the problems in their country are -- after all, that has been one of my biggest complaints on these threads (people from other countries imagining they know everything about the U.S.). At the same time, I know one person (you) cannot have accurate views for everybody in a country (heaven forbid a racist person from the South in the U.S. ever speak for me, for example). But a few clicks away was news that contradicted a lot of what you've said. For example, this claim you've made that all the people in your country followed Covid lockdown orders and using it as a reason why your country fared well while mine did not -- doesn't seem to be so:
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-11-03-20-intl/h_4bd65a0d63eb67a805521825199ce976

I do wonder too, why you affiliate yourself so much with the right-wing in the U.S., as it seems many in your country are very aversive to what the 'right' has become here. Issues regarding racism, abortion, gun control, immigrants -- many conservatives in your country don't like the ideas the 'right' in America hold:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/us-right-wing-ideas-do-not-all-translate-to-australia-20190807-p52eue.html

You might investigate and learn what has happened to the Republican party here -- after that I doubt you'd defend them as much as you have over some months. Once again, this is not a partisan thing for me -- I am not a Democrat and am not impressed with Democrats over the last decades -- but the Republican party has gone nuts. You say you don't like Trump, and well neither do I, but unfortunately the Republican party has kind of become him.
Try researching conservatives who left the Republican party in disgust (the Lincoln project).

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I recall on another thread, probably close to a year ago, I brought up how Americans should be more concerned with Covid and the rising death rates back when it was in the 80,000's instead of being out in the streets "peacefully protesting" the deaths of criminals.  I was belittled, ridiculed and chased out of that thread....by you.

Almost half a million people in your country dead. 

Makes you wonder what the toll would have been if those "peaceful protests" had been stopped as soon as they begun.

 

 

18 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

*cough* Antifa "peaceful" protests *cough * BLM "peaceful" protests *cough*

But sure, keep blaming ONLY the Republicans.

You do like to bring this up (I think this is the 3rd time)...painting yourself as a victim in a thread where you demonstrated such a lack of respect toward Blacks and what they need to do to heal in the U.S.  Perhaps if you showed more empathy for Blacks people would not belittle you?  Just a thought.

I recall Beth belittling you at that time, calling you a "Karen", but I don't recall belittling you myself. I don't doubt that I did, given the nature of the topic and how I experience you as extremely unsympathetic and insensitive toward Blacks in my country. And it's actually Beth who left, and not just that thread, but the entire forum due to the insensitivity toward Blacks she perceived from conservatives on this forum. I guess, though, we really need to establish if it's okay to belittle someone, to give them a 'scorn laugh' and the like when we feel their thoughts have no validity - but perhaps that's a topic for a thread of it's own. 

However if you want to discuss belittling then let's discuss it in the context of the above attack you leveled toward Pamela (the 2nd quote).

First, it looks like you've decided to argue in a partisan way with this drama-laden partisan attack -- I would say that is worthy of a scorn laugh.
Second, your comparison of the BLM protests (where an abused group is trying to ameliorate their abuse in a racist society via mostly peaceful protesting) with the rioters (who stormed the Capitol, killing people, and attempting to end democracy)....is ridiculous. I can't comprehend how you don't see the difference. Public protests have been an effective tool for needed change over many centuries. Protests cannot be perfect, but this is no reason to discount the tool entirely. Your perception that a movement is invalid because it's not perfect earns you another scorn laugh.
(I have to add that your dissing BLM movement where a disadvantaged group of people are speaking up for themselves in protest against centuries of abuse is very much like telling an abused woman to just shut-up after finally gaining the strength to confront her abuser).
And you earn a third scorn laugh for never bothering to understand the plight of Blacks in this country and why they would protest in the first place, yet you consistently inject your opinion about it in threads. Not to mention blaming BLM protestors (masked and in open air, btw) for our increased cases of Covid.

If you want some approval, praise, laud, commend (all opposites of 'belittle') from me you will need to show caring for Blacks and demonstrate you are able to make more mature distinctions in thought.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Silent Mistwalker]

Aaaannnnnd back to politicizing Covid... again. ☹️

I'd make another thread for people to actually talk about Covid and be able to vent without all the political bs but it would be a wasted effort since sooner or later someone would crash the thread and get it shut down. 

Some of us are very limited in where we go online (whether by choice or necessity or both) to socialize and then we find that limited circle is shrinking because others insist on being inconsiderate.

Anyone know where one can go where this sort of thing isn't allowed? No? Didn't think so. ☹️

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Aaaannnnnd back to politicizing Covid... again. ☹️

Covid is political. How our governments deal with the crisis affects whether we live or die.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Covid is political. How our governments deal with the crisis affects whether we live or die.

[Luna Bliss]

Your points are like Arielle's dots...who knows wth they mean...lol.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Covid is political. How our governments deal with the crisis affects whether we live or die.

No, it is how you deal with it that will determine whether you live or die. This is part of your problem in that you look to your government and all others in protecting you from the virus  as opposed to taking responsibility for it yourself, hopefully in conjunction with those in your immediate vicinity. If maskless people are running amok, don't go there. Its really that simple. If some people are singing in their church without masks, don't go there! Simple eh? 

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your points are like Arielle's dots...who knows wth they mean...lol.

 

I find it interesting that other people have no trouble understanding my points yet you always do.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Covid is political. How our governments deal with the crisis affects whether we live or die.

No, it is how you deal with it that will determine whether you live or die. This is part of your problem in that you look to your government and all others in protecting you from the virus  as opposed to taking responsibility for it yourself, hopefully in conjunction with those in your immediate vicinity. If maskless people are running amok, don't go there. Its really that simple. If some people are singing in their church without masks, don't go there! Simple eh? 

I've never said personal responsibility does not affect our safety -- I've only said governments affect whether we live or die. Do I have to include every single thing that affects an outcome for the statement to be valid?  It's your paranoia about government and authority that has caused you to view my statement in the way you chose to.

Do you think I can affect whether a vaccine makes it to my town? If the government didn't make it so I doubt we'd ever get over this thing.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your points are like Arielle's dots...who knows wth they mean...lol.

 

I find it interesting that other people have no trouble understanding my points yet you always do.

Perhaps they are more polite than I am    

[Luna Bliss]

19 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I find it interesting that other people have no trouble understanding my points yet you always do.

I find it interesting that others can flood the forum with lengthy, mostly political posts but you say nothing.  Yet when I have 3 long posts...