Do you need to vent about things COVID-19?

[Ceka Cianci]

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I live in the Bible Belt too, and among conservatives. I see a lot of them not complying with mask recommendations, including the majority of the 6 service people who dealt with my water heater problems.

There's a danger for either you or me to take our personal experience and think it applies to all of the U.S. however. We need data input from many sources outside our own experience.

I'm not sure you, or those at your job, understand how far to the right our country has moved. I've posted charts showing how the 'right' has become an autocratic party. You can compare the variables that determine the truth of this -- it's not a conspiracy theory. if the Republican party can't get this sorted out and become reputable again (a party believing in democracy) we are in grave danger of losing democracy.

It's not a matter of people going about their lives and not paying attention to conspiracy theories -- it's about those who don't bother to educate themselves on what democracy is and so allow an autocratic type of government to take power through uninformed votes.

You live in the south? I thought you were out west somewhere.. hehehe

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

You live in the south? I thought you were out west somewhere..

I live on the plains...central part of the U.S.

[Qie Niangao]

It's worrisome that folks find this vaccine development cycle too quick. It'll soon need to get much quicker. If the species can't respond with rapid vaccine development and near universal vaccination of the population, we'll see the kind of mutations that are just starting for COVID-19. I'm mostly thinking of the next pandemic, since it's hard to imagine doing any worse than we already have with this one, but it's still tragically true of COVID-19: it's been around far too long, spread far too widely in the population; it's a vast petri dish for mutations. We gotta learn to wipe these things out faster, or eventually one of them is going to evolve and become the human extinction event.

[Ceka Cianci]

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I live on the plains...central part of the U.S.

The bible belt is the south..  you can't throw a rock without hitting a christian and then 10 more from the ricochet.. hehehe

Edited February 4, 2021 by Ceka Cianci

[Talligurl]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's happening all around the world...this tendency toward autocracy. Our troubles didn't end with the end of Trump in office

Of course it didn't end with Trump because the tendency towards autocracy is prevalent among Democrats as well. If you can only see issues with one side then you are not paying attention.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Talligurl

[Ceka Cianci]

12 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It's worrisome that folks find this vaccine development cycle too quick. It'll soon need to get much quicker. If the species can't respond with rapid vaccine development and near universal vaccination of the population, we'll see the kind of mutations that are just starting for COVID-19. I'm mostly thinking of the next pandemic, since it's hard to imagine doing any worse than we already have with this one, but it's still tragically true of COVID-19: it's been around far too long, spread far too widely in the population; it's a vast petri dish for mutations. We gotta learn to wipe these things out faster, or eventually one of them is going to evolve and become the human extinction event.

I was reading on that swine flu that hit like 100 years ago or so..

The same sort of thing happened then that's happening now.. They got hit  when it was colder, then summer gave them a false sense of security and thinking it was almost handled..

Just like what happened to us, even though we already knew what happened 100 years ago or so.. and then it got cold again and it blew up even worse..

We have history, we just never seem to learn from it it seems..

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Should be using Colgate anyways as that has proven covid killing properties:

Recent studies conducted by Colgate-Palmolive suggest certain oral care products may play a role in temporarily reducing the amount of SARS-CoV-2 — the virus that causes COVID-19 — in your mouth. Laboratory tests found that specific kinds of toothpaste with zinc, stannous fluoride, or amine fluoride, as well as mouthwashes with cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC), hydrogen peroxide, chlorhexidine, or stannous fluoride/amine fluoride, neutralized the virus by more than 99%. An initial clinical test performed pre-procedurally with COVID-19 positive patients showed certain mouthwashes with CPC plus zinc, hydrogen peroxide, or chlorhexidine significantly reduced the amount of virus in the mouth for up to 60 minutes after rinsing. 

https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-health/threats-to-dental-health/new-research-for-toothpaste-and-mouthwash-effects-on-covid-19-virus

SARS = Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/does-mouthwash-kill-covid-19

The test results cited in your post can be both true and inconsequential.

Might the risk of COVID infection or spread for some people increase if they follow your ill researched advice, develop a false sense of confidence, and engage in riskier behavior?

ETA: 10 seconds of Googling produced this...

https://www.india.com/lifestyle/coronavirus-update-a-list-of-foods-items-that-can-kill-covid-19-causing-virus-4206178/

Edited February 4, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters

[FairreLilette]

3 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

SARS = Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/does-mouthwash-kill-covid-19

The test results cited in your post can be both true and inconsequential.

It's interesting that this came up.  I think all these viruses are in our mouth, perhaps from food, but these viruses seem to thrive on the moisture in our mouth.   I remember that year of the Swine Flu.  My ex husband worked in hospitals and brought it home to me as he did many other "things".  But, that one year with the Swine Flu it was so horrible because we kept re-infecting each other through kissing.  First he recovered from the Swine Flu and then I did a few days later and we kissed and both were infected and sicker than heck again all over.  So, we both were sick again and then we recovered a second time.  And, then once recovered a second time, we starting kissing again, and became infected with the Swine Flu a third time!  So, in the course of about two months, we were both sick three times with a horrible Swine Flu.  I think abstaining from kissing is very important from what I learned.

I am not sure we can kill all germs in our mouth with mouthwash but we know we can kill some but I still say we need masks and every precaution.  Mouthwash is kind of like washing our hands.  It's the kissing that can really make you sick though as I know I lived it.

I just wanted to say something about the mouth that really does work and that is Hydrogen Peroxide and that it helps remove and relieve phlegm and even says so on the bottle itself, at least my bottle does that I purchased at CVS pharmacy.  If any of you ever have any phlegm, mix half hydrogen peroxide with half water and gargle for 30 seconds and you will probably cough that phlegm out within hours.  It works great; however, it is to clear phlegm from colds and sinus issues, not protect anyone from coronavirus.  

[Madelaine McMasters]

13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's interesting that this came up.  I think all these viruses are in our mouth, perhaps from food, but these viruses seem to thrive on the moisture in our mouth.   I remember that year of the Swine Flu.  My ex husband worked in hospitals and brought it home to me as he did many other "things".  But, that one year with the Swine Flu it was so horrible because we kept re-infecting each other through kissing.  First he recovered from the Swine Flu and then I did a few days later and we kissed and both were infected and sicker than heck again all over.  So, we both were sick again and then we recovered a second time.  And, then once recovered a second time, we starting kissing again, and became infected with the Swine Flu a third time!  So, in the course of about two months, we were both sick three times with a horrible Swine Flu.  I think abstaining from kissing is very important from what I learned.

I am not sure we can kill all germs in our mouth with mouthwash but we know we can kill some but I still say we need masks and every precaution.  Mouthwash is kind of like washing our hands.  It's the kissing that can really make you sick though as I know I lived it.

I just wanted to say something about the mouth that really does work and that is Hydrogen Peroxide and that it helps remove and relieve phlegm and even says so on the bottle itself, at least my bottle does that I purchased at CVS pharmacy.  If any of you ever have any phlegm, mix half hydrogen peroxide with half water and gargle for 30 seconds and you will probably cough that phlegm out within hours.  It works great; however, it is to clear phlegm from colds and sinus issues, not protect anyone from coronavirus.  

Your story, if accurate and complete, is remarkable. Absent treatment for a viral infection, it's unlikely that you could recover and relapse multiple times in one year. If your body built up an immune response sufficient to generate a recovery, a relapse seems unlikely. If your body was unable to mount an effective immune response, recovery seems unlikely.

I suspect there is more to your story than you've revealed, or are aware of.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Madelaine McMasters

[Amina Sopwith]

6 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Your story, if accurate and complete, is remarkable. Absent treatment for a viral infection, it's unlikely that you could recover and relapse multiple times in one year. If your body built up an immune response sufficient to generate a recovery, a relapse seems unlikely. If your body was unable to mount an effective immune response, recovery seems unlikely.

I suspect there is more to your story than you've revealed, or are aware of.

Can you get "long flu" in the same way you can get long Covid? I knew someone claiming she got Covid several times but it sounded likely that she had long Covid.

[FairreLilette]

31 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Your story, if accurate and complete, is remarkable. Absent treatment for a viral infection, it's unlikely that you could recover and relapse multiple times in one year. If your body built up an immune response sufficient to generate a recovery, a relapse seems unlikely. If your body was unable to mount an effective immune response, recovery seems unlikely.

I suspect there is more to your story than you've revealed, or are aware of.

Nope, nothing more to the story.  First him infected, then me.  Then we were better.  Then within a few days or a day, kissing.  Then within a few days sick again a second time.  Then recovered a second time.  Then kissing again.  Then sick again a third time.  We were sick three times within the course of about two months.  It was that Swine Flu.  Horrible.  How our immune systems were working...well, he was quite healthy and athletic, no smoking, no drinking.  Me, a bit immuno-compromised and had been diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome at the time which I seem to be better from now.  We were both in our thirties at the time so not immuno-compromised from age.  As to whether we each had fully recovered in-between kissing again and becoming sick again, it seemed so to us that's why we resumed kissing again.   There is nothing else except I was so sick for months from that and used a humidifier for the first time in my life.   What I learned about humidifiers is they work great but are a bear to clean.  

I've also read minimally about that year of the Swine Flu.  I read it took us (I gather meaning the world) 22 months to acquire herd immunity.  

Edited February 4, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Madelaine McMasters]

16 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Can you get "long flu" in the same way you can get long Covid? I knew someone claiming she got Covid several times but it sounded likely that she had long Covid.

Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome is prevalent enough to have a name.

There are long haul H1N1 sufferers...

https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus/warning-from-woman-feeling-h1n1-effects-after-10-years

I imagine it's possible to interpret long haul symptoms as re-infection.

[Madelaine McMasters]

8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Nope, nothing more to the story.

Did you get antibody and viral load tests throughout your recovery/relapse cycles?

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I live on the plains...central part of the U.S.

The bible belt is the south..  you can't throw a rock without hitting a christian and then 10 more from the ricochet.. hehehe

lol well it's awfully Bible-y around here. Perhaps it's a bit like where you live...you aren't technically in Appalachia, you're a bit to the West of it, but in general the mindset of the people is the same in many respects.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Talligurl said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's happening all around the world...this tendency toward autocracy. Our troubles didn't end with the end of Trump in office

Of course it didn't end with Trump because the tendency towards autocracy is prevalent among Democrats as well. If you can only see issues with one side then you are not paying attention.

I'm not a Democrat...nor am I a Republican.

This isn't a partisan issue, although you just made it so.
Pointing out that one side has gone off the rails and become astonishingly extreme doesn't warrant a "but look mom, he did some of it too" response pointing to the other side, with disparities between the two so great that it qualifies for an 'apples to oranges' comparison and a false equivalency in logic.

For example, say we have a couple ornery kids, JoJo and JuJu, who have a tendency to tease the poor cat. 
Jojo sets the cat on fire, while JuJu starts to pull the cats tail.
If I were to yell at JoJo for setting the cat on fire would he really have any defense by claiming "but JuJu pulled the cats tail" ?

I think, for you to make such a comparison most likely means you don't have a clue regarding what is going on in the Republican party atm...just how extreme it has become. V-dem is a European organization that studies the problem, and here's a chart of theirs that clarifies what has happened to the Republican party:

https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/b6/55/b6553f85-5c5d-45ec-be63-a48a2abe3f62/briefing_paper_9.pdf

And here's more info about the V-Dem organization:
https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/de/39/de39af54-0bc5-4421-89ae-fb20dcc53dba/democracy_report.pdf

Edited February 4, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[FairreLilette]

15 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Did you get antibody and viral load tests throughout your recovery/relapse cycles?

I don't recall my doctor saying anything other to use a humidifier, rest, take aspirin kind of general flu treatment.  He did blood work but I don't remember him saying anything about antibodies at all.  

 

19 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome is prevalent enough to have a name.

There are long haul H1N1 sufferers...

https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus/warning-from-woman-feeling-h1n1-effects-after-10-years

I imagine it's possible to interpret long haul symptoms as re-infection.

I had chronic fatigue syndrome for a very long time.  It did seem though that we were better, then kiss, then sick again and repeat.  It was quite horrendous.  With CFS, I am far more active in the last six years or so than I have been since my 20's.   I think being single after 26 years finally gave me a chance to do the things I always wanted to but couldn't due to time and other responsibilites, so I pushed myself.   Chronic fatigue syndrome is like having a low grade flu all the time.  It's horrible!  

[Talligurl]

25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

would he really have any defense by claiming "but JuJu pulled the cats tail" ?

I am not defending anyone, as a conservative I am very  concerned by the state of the Republican Party and I think Trump is responsible for the damage. However that does not mean we give the Democrats a free riegn because they have thier own evils.

[Madelaine McMasters]

19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't recall my doctor saying anything other to use a humidifier, rest, take aspirin kind of general flu treatment.  He did blood work but I don't remember him saying anything about antibodies at all.

Absent tests for the presence of an infection, or an antibody response to it, you can't discern whether your symptoms were the result of re-infection with the same virus (unlikely) or something else (more likely).

[Ceka Cianci]

45 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

lol well it's awfully Bible-y around here. Perhaps it's a bit like where you live...you aren't technically in Appalachia, you're a bit to the West of it, but in general the mindset of the people is the same in many respects.

The Bible belt is just another nick name for the south. Because of the large concentration of Christians and the many different denominations.

The birth place of the KKK is just down the highway a short piece.. Once a year they show up no matter how much the town doesn't want them there..

The trail through the back side of our property called the devils back bone, both the norther soldiers and the southern soldiers traveled.. It's a 400 ft drop off on one side of the trail in some spots and that's not hitting bottom yet..

It's far from flat where I live.. Some days what I wouldn't give for flat.. hehehehe

 

Just to add a little more fun in there because I love the movie and the song.. hehehe

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Ceka Cianci

[Arielle Popstar]

15 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sorry? Sources for this?

No one is less trusting of Big Pharma -- or any other "Big" corporate sector, for that matter -- than I am, but we have public universities stocked full of independent scholars who have been studying this for over a year. What have they had to say about the "proven effectiveness as a cure" of these?

These predominantly left leaning "independent" scholars still rely on research grants to do those sorts of studies. Then as you have pointed out, a left leaning publication where they can submit the findings. Being that Big Pharma and government funds much of the medical research in Universities, it stands to reason they are not going to fund studies that might work against the need for a vaccine. A cure is still much better then a vaccine as it stops the death toll that is happening now, not months or years from now when they have a vaccine against the present and future strains of Covid. A cure today stops the need for economy killing lockdowns and isolationist policies that have resulted in a marked spike in suicides, addictions and domestic abuse.

It's becoming increasingly clear there is actually a multitude of both old drugs and even some foods, toothpaste and mouthwashes (as Madeleine points out) capable of killing the Covid virus but it would appear that Big Tech's campaign against what it terms as "misinformation" is keeping that knowledge from the general public.

Big Pharma with some accomplices is basically creating a market for its vaccines.

[LittleMe Jewell]

The areas in red are generally considered to be the Bible Belt in the US.

[FairreLilette]

42 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Absent tests for the presence of an infection, or an antibody response to it, you can't discern whether your symptoms were the result of re-infection with the same virus (unlikely) or something else (more likely).

Wow, but it's possible as my ex did work for hospitals (plural) as well as went to many out-patient clinics for his job so I could have been exposed to other things, but with CFS so little was known about it then and there still isn't much treatment.  It was Swine Flu that year though where there were minor precautions here in the states which were basically we were given anti-septic wipes upon arriving into the grocery store and were told to wipe down our carts before grocery shopping.  My ex encountered minor mask wearing that year of the Swine Flu as hospitals began insisting upon it for all employees but became lax afterwards.  Otherwise, there was no lockdown nor talk of pandemic during Swine Flu, not that I recall anyhow.  Many hospitals added hand-sanitizer dispensers at that time as well as people starting carrying their own hand-sanitizers for out of home use while traveling to stores, etc.   Anyhow, my ex worked a high risk job I'd guess where he could have been exposed to many things.  

Edited February 4, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

These predominantly left leaning "independent" scholars still rely on research grants to do those sorts of studies. Then as you have pointed out, a left leaning publication where they can submit the findings. Being that Big Pharma and government funds much of the medical research in Universities, it stands to reason they are not going to fund studies that might work against the need for a vaccine. A cure is still much better then a vaccine as it stops the death toll that is happening now, not months or years from now when they have a vaccine against the present and future strains of Covid. A cure today stops the need for economy killing lockdowns and isolationist policies that have resulted in a marked spike in suicides, addictions and domestic abuse.

It's becoming increasingly clear there is actually a multitude of both old drugs and even some foods, toothpaste and mouthwashes (as Madeleine points out) capable of killing the Covid virus but it would appear that Big Tech's campaign against what it terms as "misinformation" is keeping that knowledge from the general public.

Big Pharma with some accomplices is basically creating a market for its vaccines.

Well, I'm going to begin by noting that you have not-so-adroitly dodged my question, which asked you for sources. You appear to have none that are reliable enough to post here?

I'm going to agree that a) ideology is never completely absent from even an academic setting (although most of the science people I know tend to lean a bit towards the conservative side), and that b) corporate funding of research is always an issue. Which is why critical thinking is always a good thing, even when reading science journals.

There are, however, a lot of safeguards in place in academic research to prevent overt corporatization and politicization of research projects and results. Corporate donations are always vetted carefully before being accepted, and, at reputable research institutions, an arms-length relationship with the funder is always in place. No one is going to accept grant money that is awarded only on the proviso that certain kinds of results are produced. That's just not how it's done.

We also have REBs -- research ethics boards -- that are involved in vetting most research proposals, and most especially those involving human subjects.

And there are lots of funding sources that are not corporate or private. In Canada, for instance, we have the Tri-Council government granting agencies which are, again, at arms-length from actual policy makers, and where proposals are vetted through peer review. I've actually served on vetting committees for such grants -- no one who is approving grants is doing so because they don't want to lose corporate money, I can assure you, because those who are involved in the approval process aren't administrators or corporate and government agents -- they are ordinary faculty who are protected by tenure.

Finally, the publication process involves double-blind peer review -- and publication of results that are at all contentious almost always produces papers that raise objections, question research methods, etc.

None of which ensures that bias and ideology does not sometimes slip into research, and most particularly, the choice of research project. But it does make the process a LOT more reliable than that employed by the "alternative media."

As a sidenote, I find your association of a reliance on corporate funding -- "Big Pharma," i.e., big corporations -- and "left leaning publication" kind of hilarious. You do realize that the left doesn't like big corporations, right? And that we have lots of reasons to despise Big Pharma in particular? And what exactly are these "left leaning publications" of which you speak? Lancet, which is owned by Elsevier, one of the largest corporate academic publishers in world? The idea that most academic journals are "left leaning" is kind of a hoot, actually.

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I was at work and didn't catch the snippy end of that..

You may want to update your reading on it.

 

ETA: Here is a pretty non bias piece. it goes into the good the bad and the ugly..

 

 

I don't disagree with him but it kind of falls to the parents to be sure they and/or their children aren't using too much toothpaste. The other thing I had trouble with is how does he expect things to NOT change from one century to the next? A lot can happen in the span of just a few years and obviously some of the research couldn't be done in just a few months.

There are advantages and disadvantages to everything including preventive health measures. The key is "moderation". It's when you over do things that the most damage is caused. 

What was it that old Brylcreem commercial jingle said? A little dab will do you. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

SARS = Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/does-mouthwash-kill-covid-19

The test results cited in your post can be both true and inconsequential.

Might the risk of COVID infection or spread for some people increase if they follow your ill researched advice, develop a false sense of confidence, and engage in riskier behavior?

ETA: 10 seconds of Googling produced this...

https://www.india.com/lifestyle/coronavirus-update-a-list-of-foods-items-that-can-kill-covid-19-causing-virus-4206178/

Not disagreeing with you just saying there are some things I keep on hand because of their ability(?) to kill bacteria and viruses. Lysol concentrate (and spray)* is one. Another is hydrogen peroxide for cleaning cuts and abrasions as well as occasional use as a facial cleanser followed by witch hazel. I've found those two items to be the most effective in generally staying well. 

*any and all Lysol products