Do you need to vent about things COVID-19?

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Simply put, currently we have a fascist Republican party filled with conspiracy theorists and racists, committed to Trumpism, and it's up to others outside their party to keep them in check.

That's total bull.  I know Republicans who are not fascist nor "Trumpies" or whatever you personally call them.

I think some of you want to see Trump impeached as it will benefit the Democratic party, not people.  

The things some of you speak about don't include things that will help anyone other than the Democratic party.  

Things need to change but you don't need to go off your rocker saying things like "no peace".  That's absurd. 

I'm not a Democrat, so you're pointing your finger in the wrong direction.

And I never said ALL Republicans are racists and conspiracy theorists...I said the party is filled with them now. But it is currently an autocratic party -- most of them feel it's fine to steal an election and circumvent the rule of law -- that is not democracy.

And there can be no peace without justice...not much anyway. Not for those who have been harmed.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[JanuarySwan]

19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

And there can be no peace without justice...not much anyway. Not for those who have been harmed.

There isn't always justice as this is far from a perfect world.  My ancestors were harmed greatly by WWII Nazi Germany.  There was no justice from that and there never will be but we found our own peace.

As far as what happened at the Capitol, the FBI is handling it, among others.  I think you need to calm the f--- down as this message board is not a place for justice nor to crucify others nor to even crucify Trump.  It's enough already with your Trump ravings.  

Edited February 7, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

I'm perfectly calm, and indeed we can talk about justice here in hopes of making a better world despite your instructions not to, and I am not crucifying anyone. Please get your projections in check.

Here's something to study, as I get a sense you don't do much of that:

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

There isn't always justice as this is far from a perfect world.  My ancestors were harmed greatly by WWII Nazi Germany.  There was no justice from that and there never will be but we found our own peace.

Are you like 16 years of age or something? There has been much effort in holding the Nazi's accountable for their crimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

Edited February 7, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Jordyn McGregor]

9 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

...and threw huge superspreader events.

*cough* Antifa "peaceful" protests *cough * BLM "peaceful" protests *cough*

But sure, keep blaming ONLY the Republicans.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jordan Whitt

[JanuarySwan]

27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm perfectly calm, and indeed we can talk about justice here in hopes of making a better world despite your instructions not to, and I am not crucifying anyone. Please get your projections in check.

Here's something to study, as I get a sense you don't do much of that:

I was speaking in regards to your statement regarding what happened at the Capital and that raving you are doing and in a totally inappropriate place as this is not the Luna whatever I want message board.  The FBI is handling it, and you do need to calm down.

Could we have a link please to see your source here?  

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Are you like 16 years of age or something? There has been much effort in holding the Nazi's accountable for their crimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

There is a different type of justice I was speaking about.   Those were war criminals and murderers and it didn't benefit my family in any way.  

JUSTICE

bring to justice, to cause to come before a court for trial or to receive punishment for one's misdeeds:The murderer was brought to justice.

do justice,

to act or treat justly or fairly.

1. to appreciate properly:We must see this play again to do it justice.
2. to acquit in accordance with one's abilities or potentialities:He finally got a role in which he could do himself justice as an actor.

 

I need to hold a mirror to your face while you type.  

Edited February 7, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

This is not a partisan issue...........x10.

The Coronavirus response was a disaster, and that is putting it mildly...we are heading up to 500,000 deaths in the U.S.

It is just a fact...a party that is overly focused on individualism and less community-minded (hello Republican party), does not handle a pandemic well (pandemics need a community response).

@Jordan Whitt-- study how your community-minded New Zealand handled it, and note why you are sailing free!

We really need to get this sorted out before the next pandemic arrives.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Could we have a link please to see your source here?  

https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/b6/55/b6553f85-5c5d-45ec-be63-a48a2abe3f62/briefing_paper_9.pdf

And here's more info about the V-Dem organization:
https://www.v-dem.net/media/filer_public/de/39/de39af54-0bc5-4421-89ae-fb20dcc53dba/democracy_report.pdf

[JanuarySwan]

And, regarding your use of the word justice.  I see, you just want justice that will help serve the Democratic party.  As I said, your kind of justice will not help people, only Democrats.

Goodnight.

Edited February 7, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[JanuarySwan]

1 hour ago, Jordan Whitt said:

*cough* Antifa "peaceful" protests *cough * BLM "peaceful" protests *cough*

But sure, keep blaming ONLY the Republicans.

I saw the irony in this as well.  Not to mention I am a Democrat and she says she is not.  I do not like the fact that she thinks she knows all republicans or all democrats.

And, I would not protest during COVID for BLM just because I am a democrat.  I am an individual person made up of a life of my own choices.  I choose not to be exposed to COVID as much as I can and skipped holidays with family this year because I am still me and that's my choice.  I do not fit a cookie-cutter anything she has in her mind of what a democrat is supposed to be.

Not to mention if Biden pardons Trump, will a majority of democrats go out and protest while we are still in the eye of the storm of COVID?   

This Trump-hating and republican blaming - well, I've had enough of it plus this isn't the place for it, as well as it's turning somewhat into a disease with some.   I wish someone would hear the word "enough" already.  Go somewhere else with your vitriol like social media where it is allowed - please.

[Drayke Newall]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

However since Covid is temporary (hopefully), and since Trumps powers are diminished via not being in office, it looks like conditions could improve...

The Coronavirus response was a disaster, and that is putting it mildly...we are heading up to 500,000 deaths in the U.S.

It is just a fact...a party that is overly focused on individualism and less community-minded (hello Republican party), does not handle a pandemic well (pandemics need a community response).

This all has nothing to do with politics and why should it. It has EVERYTHING to do with people following the directions of FEDERAL government. Nothing more.

Trump in April 2020 announced that states were to follow a staged plan that when a state gets to a certain number of days without transmission and practice social distancing by limiting how many people can be in a venue etc, then they could begin re-opening. What did the governors of the states do? Throw that all out the window and open when infection rates were still high and around not to mention the protests that happened on both sides, spring break, other holidays etc. Trump unveils three-stage process for states to end coronavirus shutdown

Whilst you blame America's COVID problem on Trump or the republicans you fail to realise that Trump was probably right from the beginning DESPITE the former medical adviser to Obama, the speaker of the house, the democrats, Biden, governors, and the American people all saying his staged plan was wrong.

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

@Jordan Whitt-- study how your community-minded New Zealand handled it, and note why you are sailing free!

As a person living in Australia and I am sure @Jordan Whitt can attest to this being the similar approach in New Zealand as well.

Want to know how New Zealand and Australia handled the pandemic to become free of coronavirus, the wonders from down under, and have the freedom we have now as two of the very few major countries to not have the virus running rampant?

Stage 1 - High: testing if you have symptoms, self isolate, groups of over 10 are not allowed and fines will be handed out if they are conducted and large venues based on person/m².

Stage 2 - Medium: testing if you have symptoms, self isolate, groups of 50 people are allowed but any more than that fined, large venues based on person/m², plus other laws relaxed.

Stage 3 - Low: if no community transmission has occurred in 14/28 days country or state is opened with social distancing in place and most restrictions removed.

Additionally, our federal court STOPPED (by ruling) any person protesting BLM or any other issue during the pandemic at the risk of jail and/or fine. (America's governors and certain communities however refused Trumps repeated calls for intervention to stop the protesting that happened during a pandemic).

Now let me think, based on the above, where have I heard a similar plan proposed? Oh that's right, Trump's three-stage process linked above (literally a copy of the plan Australia and New Zealand already had in place back in March) that the American governors and most of the community didn't want to follow because of 'x' reasons, the main being - Trump proposed it so it could never be right.

There is your study you asked from Jordan.

TL;DR

Trump tried to implement the same plan Australia and New Zealand used/uses successfully giving us the freedom from COVID, America didn't listen. Maybe next time Americans will realise to put the hate of a person behind them, pause the fight for a cause and to temporarily have the inconvenience of some liberties removed for the greater good of the country/people during a pandemic like Australian's and New Zealander's have done.

As usual, I expect the usual excuses (typically - trump supporter which I am not) to be thrown around why Trump's plan (aka Australia and New Zealand's plan) wouldn't work but I wont be responding as the above is fact, shows it was there and could have been done just the same as we did. Just wanted to set the record straight.

[Jordyn McGregor]

8 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

The Coronavirus response was a disaster, and that is putting it mildly...we are heading up to 500,000 deaths in the U.S.

I recall on another thread, probably close to a year ago, I brought up how Americans should be more concerned with Covid and the rising death rates back when it was in the 80,000's instead of being out in the streets "peacefully protesting" the deaths of criminals.  I was belittled, ridiculed and chased out of that thread....by you.

Almost half a million people in your country dead. 

Makes you wonder what the toll would have been if those "peaceful protests" had been stopped as soon as they begun.

 

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Trump tried to implement the same plan Australia and New Zealand used/uses successfully giving us the freedom from COVID, America didn't listen.

You must be joking. Trump was pushing states to reopen faster despite per-capita death rates orders of magnitude higher than the very worst conditions ever encountered in Australia.

Just try to find, for example anywhere Trump even hinted -- let alone urged -- South Dakota to clamp down as it was stacking COVID corpses like cordwood. Meanwhile, instead, a maskless Trump held superspreader rallies across the US, and repeating urges to reopen faster in the face of mounting infections, hospitalizations, test positivity rates, and deaths.

[Pamela Galli]

27 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

You must be joking. Trump was pushing states to reopen faster despite per-capita death rates orders of magnitude higher than the very worst conditions ever encountered in Australia.

Just try to find, for example anywhere Trump even hinted -- let alone urged -- South Dakota to clamp down as it was stacking COVID corpses like cordwood. Meanwhile, instead, a maskless Trump held superspreader rallies across the US, and repeating urges to reopen faster in the face of mounting infections, hospitalizations, test positivity rates, and deaths.

True. But no point in trying to enlighten people who have made a choice to believe sources of “alternative facts”. They are delusional and utterly without remorse or shame. 

Also, anyone can Google to see that BLM marchers, masked and outdoors, didn’t cause a spike in covid. That is a fact.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Pamela Galli

[Theresa Tennyson]

9 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

*cough* Antifa "peaceful" protests *cough * BLM "peaceful" protests *cough*

But sure, keep blaming ONLY the Republicans.

Yeah, the Antifa protests were why COVID skyrocketed in the summer in places with a lot of protests like Washington, Oregon and Minnesota while they stayed low in conservative states like Texas, Florida and Arizona.

Oh wait - today isn't Opposite Day. Never mind...

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

You must be joking. Trump was pushing states to reopen faster despite per-capita death rates orders of magnitude higher than the very worst conditions ever encountered in Australia.

No I am not joking. You are correct he did want the country to reopen and pushing them to reopen. So did Australia's Prime Minister. Despite all of that as per the link I posted states, he delivered that specific plan which was released from the COVID taskforce doctors and as mentioned in that link it was stated that it was the governors that were responsible for implementation of it.

In other words. Trump left it to individual states to specifically follow those rules, just like Australia's Federal Government did to the State Governments. Trump could jump up and down all he wanted but the fact remains states opened up prior to any of those stages on the order of those states governments. You can deny it all you want but those are the facts. Texas I believe was one of the first to open despite having cases still around.

Ill also let you into a hint, our Prime minster has countless times told state governments to not shutdown, remain open etc. Our Premiers however did it anyway against the Prime Minster and we complied with State Governments. What difference is that than what happened in America?

I am also not denying that the USA had worse conditions. I am fully aware of that, bigger country. But we get USA news over here and all we heard ware people ignoring those rules etc because "how dare the government tell us to stay at home, we have rights!". The majority ignoring those rules being the rioters at that stage with counter riots against those riots and then riots against lockdowns and for constitutional rights. Had people stayed within those stages who knows what would have happened, but I am almost certain that it would have been better than you have now.

Quote

Just try to find, for example anywhere Trump even hinted -- let alone urged -- South Dakota to clamp down as it was stacking COVID corpses like cordwood. Meanwhile, instead, a maskless Trump held superspreader rallies across the US, and repeating urges to reopen faster in the face of mounting infections, hospitalizations, test positivity rates, and deaths.

Ah yes, there it is blaming a political party or person for the ineptitude of American citizens in not being able to follow a simple 3 stage plan because "their rights".

Trump who you blame for super spreader events is no longer in office. Your new president and his COVID taskforce specifically state last week not to go out to celebrate the Super bowl and possibly start another super spreader event. They advise against it, but like clockwork, super bowl comes around and what happens Americans refuse to comply, don't wear masks and go out in massive numbers to celebrate it. Not to mention your new president going against his own advise to travel to see his family to watch the super bowl. Just ask UK what happened there when ministers went against the government advise. They were hounded by the public and were punished or resigned. Same happened in Australia. Football fans begin to tailgate around Raymond James Stadium on the eve of the Super Bowl   | Daily Mail Online

Are you still going to blame Trump for the people going to the super bowl and possibly spreading the virus further? This isn't political, it is purely a matter of people following a directive given by your government and health officials to help. You can blame Trump, Biden, republicans, democrats whoever. The fact remains follow what your government advises based on medical advice and you will be surprised at how quick you can tackle it.

Look at England, in lockdown, people following government orders, no big events and their cases are dropping allowing vaccines to be administered etc, hospitals starting to flow again and now they are introducing hotel quarantines systems just like other EU countries are as well which Australia and NZ have had in place from day one.

So no, try again. Australia and New Zealand have proven a system that works in both autumn, winter, spring and summer. Trump and his advisers at the time tried to implement it and failed due to all the reasons mentioned above.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[FairreLilette]

I agree with you @Drayke Newall that the early plan was similar to Australia and New Zealand as I heard that too.  But, state and local governments wanted control.  With the United States and COVID, it is like the 50 states are 50 countries in Europe.  A pandemic is a mess here.  However, Biden has been able to mandate certain things from a federal level, i.e., for one, a federal mandate that all people wear masks.  I'm still in lockdown in California and have been since November while other states are not.   In short, the United States is like 50 countries in Europe, but Biden may unite some of that hopefully.  Some people in California want Governor Newsom recalled.  As far as what I've read, Governor Newsom had no choice but to issue the lockdown because it's a law regarding emergency room capacity.  In parts of California we went to minus zero emergency room capacity.

[Jordyn McGregor]

18 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Australia and New Zealand have proven a system that works in both autumn, winter, spring and summer. 

I look on the bright side.  

We're a small country, in the middle of nowhere that no-one gives a hoot about.  In fact, in disaster movies we often don't even APPEAR on the world maps.  The aliens will attack or disasters will happen or war will break out and we'll be fine!

[FairreLilette]

23 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I look on the bright side.  

We're a small country, in the middle of nowhere that no-one gives a hoot about.  In fact, in disaster movies we often don't even APPEAR on the world maps.  The aliens will attack or disasters will happen or war will break out and we'll be fine!

You also are bordered in so to speak.  America has no borders within itself.  We can drive and fly in and out and all over every state without needing a passport, nor need of anything else to be allowed in.  It's like being able to drive and fly in and out of 50 countries say in Europe.  Hawaii was the first and only state early in 2020 to have those who arrive into the state go into 14-day isolation.   

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

22 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I look on the bright side.  

We're a small country, in the middle of nowhere that no-one gives a hoot about.  In fact, in disaster movies we often don't even APPEAR on the world maps.  The aliens will attack or disasters will happen or war will break out and we'll be fine!

With everything being deadly where you guys live, the world figured you had plenty enough to worry about already.. hehehe

 

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

You also are bordered in so to speak.  America has no borders within itself.  We can drive and fly in and out and all over every state without needing a passport, nor anything else to be allowed in.    

 

didn't California have something around the holidays where if you left after a certain date that you couldn't get back in unless you were tested and quarantined for so many days?

It might have been one of the cities though too .. I know there was something  around that time.

[Drayke Newall]

34 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I agree with you @Drayke Newall that the early plan was similar to Australia and New Zealand as I heard that too.  But, state and local governments wanted control.  With the United States and COVID, it is like the 50 states are 50 countries in Europe.  A pandemic is a mess here.  However, Biden has been able to mandate certain things from a federal level, i.e., for one, a federal mandate that all people wear masks.  I'm still in lockdown in California and have been since November while other states are not.   In short, the United States is like 50 countries in Europe, but Biden may unite some of that hopefully.  Some people in California want Governor Newsom recalled.  As far as what I've read, Governor Newsom had no choice but to issue the lockdown because it's a law regarding emergency room capacity.  In parts of California we went to minus zero emergency room capacity.

Australia is exactly like America as far as government goes. I am not sure who is in control of health policies in America federal or state, however it comes down to the Australian States individually to manage their own health plans and that included in the Pandemic. The Federal government gave the advice of the top medical expert and it was up to the states to implement whatever they deemed necessary based on that advice as well as their individual top medical experts.

The only thing the Federal government health wise did in the pandemic was stimulus and closing borders as that is all they can do.

The difference is they followed everything the Federal Government advised (within reason) because it was good for the people even if the Premiers where on the opposing side politically than the PM. Meetings were held at regular intervals over zoom between federal and state governments so everyone new everything others were doing. This would be the equivalent of the white house holding meetings with every governor in America.

As to Biden, whilst yes he has implemented a lot of mandates through executive orders, what is the point if people don't follow them. Take the mask mandate, where are the masks in the super bowl celebrations in the pic I posted? Laws, systems whatever mean nothing unless the citizens follow those laws and if they don't make them just like the rest of the world is learning they need to do and like Australia did.

When Victoria in winter had a second wave a law was passed to wear masks. The difference between that law and Biden's executive law was that you got fined if you didn't. The result, everyone wore a mask. That is what I am trying to imply, citizens need to comply and if they do not then they are punished. If they act like a child treat them like one. Yet some (not you) seem to think I'm somehow supporting Trump or his policies like Qie does. It is just weird how that even happens when my point was clear.

33 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I look on the bright side.  

We're a small country, in the middle of nowhere that no-one gives a hoot about.  In fact, in disaster movies we often don't even APPEAR on the world maps.  The aliens will attack or disasters will happen or war will break out and we'll be fine!

*Shrugs* I don't know, sometimes I don't know why I bother to respond to these kind of threads, usually ends up everyone takes everything out of context and then comes up with excuses as to why Australia and New Zealand don't matter. The one I like at the moment with the pandemic excuses is when they say that Australia's population density is 3.3 people/km² so of course we didn't suffer bad. Shows their education level in thinking we live in the desert not to mention our cities population densities are the same as many cities around the world.

I remember watching a youtube vid of someone playing an annihilation game, and he specifically tried to make Australia and NZ get destroyed... didn't happen. Then he gave Australia the dictator personality and made military training compulsory for all citizens. Australia took over the world in no time. Maybe like you say, Aus and NZ are just that good 'cause people forget about us.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[FairreLilette]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

didn't California have something around the holidays where if you left after a certain date that you couldn't get back in unless you were tested and quarantined for so many days?

It might have been one of the cities though too .. I know there was something  around that time.

I don't know.  We are in lockdown here.  People weren't supposed to go anywhere in the first place.  But, I've not heard of that.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't know.  We are in lockdown here.  People weren't supposed to go anywhere in the first place.  But, I've not heard of that.

 

I think I remember Lil saying something about it around that time.. It may have just been for the holidays.. It was probably to slow down the boost of cases that we would get from the holidays.

I think there were some states that were pretty much closed off to people coming in even back in the first big shut down..

it's been so long and so much going on since then, but i wanna say one was in the east.. like Virginia maybe.. Heck i can't remember hehehe

 

Varginia Jump! \o/

Sorry John Carter just came out for a second there.. hehehe

[FairreLilette]

5 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

When Victoria in winter had a second wave a law was passed to wear masks. The difference between that law and Biden's executive law was that you got fined if you didn't. The result, everyone wore a mask. That is what I am trying to imply, citizens need to comply and if they do not then they are punished. If they act like a child treat them like one. Yet some (not you) seem to think I'm somehow supporting Trump or his policies like Qie does. It is just weird how that even happens when my point was clear.

I was not a Trump supporter either.  I've often said to this board "it's not all about Trump".  Our Governors and Mayors were given jurisdiction.   Many states were very lax and eased lockdown way too soon, imo.

However, as far as fines and things it may be needed.  American's take their freedoms too far.

However, even with lockdown of California, the Governor is not disallowing protesting.  We still retain the right to protest (anything, nothing specific) in California during this lockdown. 

But, I can definitely say California adopted a plan similar to what Australia and New Zealand have.  It just did not work here.  It's a complete disaster zone here.