Please do not delete this

[Solar Legion]

10 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

So because you have no room to store food in your apt., millions can die. 
 

OK

Nice leap in "logic" there. Variations of my situation are not out of the ordinary. You also seem to be utterly ignoring the financial aspect - must be nice to be able to afford buying more than a week ahead at best and being able to afford to directly buy your medications!

[Solar Legion]

15 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

...and Kentucky is not all of America.  Everyone looks at the world through their own parochial glasses.

I agree with the "hammer and dance" approach.  Extreme social distancing is needed, and needed now. 

Here is the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

The reason it's crept into the discussion is the "freedom of assembly" provision (and the "free exercise of religion" clause too).  One interpretation would lead you to believe that the government can't forbid people to congregate in groups, as many state and local authorities have already done.  Another take on it would say that while Congress cannot make such a law, other governmental arms could restrict free assembly in some way...as has, in fact, been happening.  Still another interpretation would mean that only assemblies "to petition the government" are covered.

No matter your interpretation of the First Amendment, the virus doesn't give a damn.  It will happily spread from one person to another.  The only way to stop it is to stop people from interacting for a while.

Note that nobody has said you can NOT go out to buy food, get medicine, conduct essential work, or help others.  Those screaming "give me liberty or give me death" are playing the virus's game.

Under any other administration, you might be correct.

Not under this one.

If such a measure is initiated and not mishandled - great. I'm not holding my breath and not willing to risk it.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Solar Legion

[Pamela Galli]

29 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Nice leap in "logic" there. Variations of my situation are not out of the ordinary. You also seem to be utterly ignoring the financial aspect - must be nice to be able to afford buying more than a week ahead at best and being able to afford to directly buy your medications!

Guess why grocery stores and pharmacies remain open. I’ll wait.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Pamela Galli said:

Guess why grocery stores and pharmacies remain open. I’ll wait.

You're making the assumption that the current administration will not take extreme measures - an assumption that it is frankly not safe to make.

You have the luxury to make that assumption, I do not.

If I could trust that the current administration would follow the suggested actions to the letter, my reaction would be quite different. I cannot place that trust in the present administration.

Now, you can stop acting as if I do not understand or trying to spin my posts as an overreaction or as callous.

[Pamela Galli]

6 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

 

If I could trust that the current administration would follow the suggested actions to the letter, my reaction would be quite different. I cannot place that trust in the present administration.

 

Oh. I thought it was about your storage problem. 

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, Pamela Galli said:

Oh. I thought it was about your storage problem. 

....

Seriously? Are you trying to troll me right now?

We have nowhere to store that much in the way of supplies and no way to afford buying that much outright. I already said as much earlier and that is a wholly separate issue to trusting the current administration.

[Beth Macbain]

I can only speak for what's happening where I am, so do please forgive me for talking about KENTUCKY, but our governor has declared a state of emergency, and I suspect most of yours have as well, or whatever form that takes wherever you are. I'd suggest reading up on what that means for where you are. 

I've made the personal decision to block anything and everything related to governing at the federal level. I wouldn't trust the president to lead me through an open barn door much less a global pandemic. My leader right now is my governor. Whatever is happening at the federal level is being managed by my governor.

So maybe worry less about what is happening in Washington, or whatever the equivalent is where you are, and pay attention to your local leaders and follow their guidance. 

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Shansi Kenin said:

The Constitution does not need exceptions to kneel to peoples opinions..give me freedom or give me death and don't tread on me.

You could very well end up with both.

[Lindal Kidd]

5 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I've made the personal decision to block anything and everything related to governing at the federal level. I wouldn't trust the president to lead me through an open barn door much less a global pandemic. My leader right now is my governor. Whatever is happening at the federal level is being managed by my governor.

 

You have a lot of company there, Beth.  I'm reading the fed level news, but mostly just to see what Trump says next, to know what not to believe.  If we get through this, it will be because of actions at the state and local level.  

[Tolya Ugajin]

23 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I've mentioned this before, and I think I've linked to the page, too.

I've been following the UN World Happiness Report for years. It's a look into that thing which freedom loving Americans are guaranteed the right, but not the ability, to pursue. There's a ranking chart 2/3rd's down the following webpage. It shows overall happiness and several of the components that make up that metric. Click on the "Freedom to make life choices" column until it's in descending order. Then go find China and the US.

No freedom = 0, full freedom = 1. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

For those who're too busy to look:

• China 0.521 (33rd)
• US      0.454 (63rd)

I'm not sure what to make of that, but I find it interesting.

Problem 1: Don't believe any data out of China.  It's well known that they falsify pretty much anything they say about their country.

Problem 2:  Don't believe anything from the UN.  After all, some of the biggest human rights abusers are on...their Human Rights Commission.

[Pamela Galli]

Take a look.

 

https://covidactnow.org

[Drayke Newall]

22 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

did you see Australia yesterday? they don't have that many infections yet.. but won't take long if they keep this behavior

And yet, it is the ignorance and arrogance of international travellers who are the ones that put Australian citizens at risk. Instead of self isolating for 14 days when coming into Australia like they are supposed to or if they have any symptoms, they go about flouting the current law. So what happens when people disrespect laws in place to stop the spread? You get news articles the next day revealing that 4 backpackers (i.e. international travelers) have tested positive, and instead of isolating like they should have been go outside and spread it around.

So yes, any person that goes to a packed beach like that at these times are stupid, who is really to blame for the spread?

I do certainly hope that those that have ignored the self isolating laws such as these backpackers seemed to have, are treated to the full force of the current law which is a lovely $11,000 - $50,000 fine (yes those are the correct figures)  and a nice holiday in a jail cell.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

13 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

who is really to blame for the spread?

Society

Seriously. You can't blame individuals or small groups of individuals for a threat this complicated and dependent of so many known and unknown factors. That's just scapegoating and it does not contribute to a solution. Quite the opposite. So stop blaming others and take responsability like a good world citizen.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Drayke Newall]

1 minute ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Society

I would say idiocy or arrogance would be the more correct. Society would impose the position that everyone is to blame which is not the case when it is the select few that think they are the exception to the rules.

[Ceka Cianci]

9 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

I would say idiocy or arrogance would be the more correct. Society would impose the position that everyone is to blame which is not the case when it is the select few that think they are the exception to the rules.

I think idiocy and arrogance is what keeps something like this prolonged, where the spread was going on well before anyone knew it was spreading..

just think about how many people one person comes in contact with before they heard about it..

I know I was trying to count how many people I came in contact with and couldn't get past the first few days..then started to think of all those people and how many they came in contact with..

it adds up fast.

[Ceka Cianci]

Myself I am kind of torn at the moment..

Tonight I still have to go into work.. I'm happy we are open and still keeping peoples checks coming in, but at the same time worried about ,I guess going to work..

I mean it's 3rd shift and people are really spread out and most of our machines are one man machines now.. But a lot of people are in debt and if they are sick will still try to come in and work..

We have letters on the doors to the plant saying,if you've used a sick day to stay home,..if you are sick  or have any symptoms stay home we will mail you your check.. things like that,but they will try to pull one over and sneak past..Just like they do in flu season or anything else..

So I'm going to be doing a lot of holding my hand up,That's close enough! I can hear you from there!

But it's really hard to do when it's your friends at work.. Many of them talk about this pandemic, but walking through the plant because it's so loud, they get real close to each other and shout so they can hear each other..

Some get right in the ear of someone else..

I just hope tonight I see a bit more seriousness in communication with each other.. But I think it's hard for them also to treat each other as a possible infected person..it's hard with friends you see every single day..

But I am glad we are still working..because that means less time off before we get on the other side of the curve with this thing..

Edited March 22, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Mollymews]

7 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I mean it's 3rd shift and people are really spread out and most of our machines are one man machines now.. But a lot of people are in debt and if they are sick will still try to come in and work..

yes

people coming in to work when they are sick because of debt overload is becoming a perennial problem even in relatively high paid jobs 

[Sassy Kenin]

20 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You could very well end up with both.

My concern is not something written on paper to let me know i am free, as others have stated most states already have restrictions in place. my concern as as the united states dissolves into further totalitarianism,  both the left and right being nothing but hands from the same monster, that in the future they will use 'Restriction Laws' in non outbreak situations to silence the people, have troops fire on protesters under the guises of ' They were Infected' or they 'Broke Quarantine' ..Permanent curfew laws will come out of this that's a given.

9/11 Brought in many laws to control the people and it was no accident, this almost 2 decades later will give them the right in the future to force you out of the home into 'Medical Camps' depending on your social status. they want everyone to panic, they want everyone to plead, that you would do anything or give up anything to make it all better.

And your right i could end up both this time but might survive but die from the new virus coming next year. I am free in my mind but not oblivious to knowing I am a prisoner like everyone else.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

A mandatory lockdown will only occur if somehow the entire narrative can be framed as a grand gesture by Trump that makes him look noble, brilliant, and magnanimous.

Otherwise it's all just Fake News™ and democrats trying to bring down his poll numbers.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 3/20/2020 at 6:35 PM, Shansi Kenin said:

They say when you see China  of Today... you're really seeing the America of Tomorrow.

I hope so because right now China has it's mother-bunny'd act together on this and has contained the virus with no new infections and people recovering to the point that tourist venues are being re-opened.

In every other aspect, the Reds are the enemy (speaking as a descendant of Chinese who got out to get away from all that crazy). But right now they've got this one right.

That said, I am reading articles (that I need to vet), suggesting the DOJ right now wants to suspend the court system - they're looking at China and envying NOT the quarantine and medical supply solutions to the pandemic, but the tyranny and over-reach that China so often pairs with these things.

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

16 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

idiocy or arrogance

Idiots and arrogant people are also the product of society, so they don't carry the full blame for everything. They exist , among other things, through budget cuts on education, by policy makers, whom were voted into office by other people. It's all interconnected. You might argue that these policy makers were voted into office by other idiots, but also ignorant people or people who were misled. So, people who are being lied to can be blamed too. Even you ane me.

The question is not: what are they going to do about it? It is: what are you going to do about it.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Madelaine McMasters]

15 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Idiots and arrogant people are also the product of society, so they don't carry the full blame for everything. They exist , among other things, through budget cuts on education, by policy makers, whom were voted into office by other people. It's all interconnected. You might argue that these policy makers were voted into office by other idiots, but also ignorant people or people who were misled. So, people who are being lied to can be blamed too. Even you ane me.

The question is not: what are they going to do about it? It is: what are you going to do about it.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/162362/americans-down-congress-own-representative.aspx

There are two old quotes I like to cite when seeing stories like that:

• None of us is as dumb as all of us.
• We have met the enemy and he is us.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 3/21/2020 at 4:23 AM, anna2358 said:

I know Americans think their country is the only one in the world, and that all SL people are really Americans at heart.  But you are wrong.  There IS life outside of Kentuckiy...

The only way for any people to keep a majority alive until a vaccine is available is full lockdown social distancing, and any politician telling you otherwise is an imbecile.  Anything else overwhelms any medical support, no matter how rich your insurance investors are.  You might die keeping your precious 1st Amendment (whatever that is).

I hate how people from other countries just lump everyone in the states into one nice neat "you all suck" pile.  You sound stupid with your remark. WE ARE ISOLATING IN THE US. NO politician is telling us differently.   The only exceptions are the fkin 20 somethings who think it is cool to hashtag boomerremover and go around infecting people because they think it is their right as Americans to do what they want and to hell with the rest of the population and they want to take out as many people as they can. 

[Dano Seale]

4 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I hope so because right now China has it's mother-bunny'd act together on this and has contained the virus with no new infections and people recovering to the point that tourist venues are being re-opened.

They're also not throwing the Uighir's into camps nor are they killing prisoners for their organs...….right?

I kind of gave up on humanity and this virus after reading how some (yes, American sorry) Teen's were arrested for going around supermarkets, purposely coughing and sneezing on all the fruit & veg', filming it and putting it on YouTube! No doubt it'll become the new "ice bucket challenge" for millions of d1ckheads the world over!

[Selene Gregoire]

On 3/21/2020 at 1:23 AM, anna2358 said:

I know Americans think their country is the only one in the world, and that all SL people are really Americans at heart.  But you are wrong.  There IS life outside of Kentuckiy...

The only way for any people to keep a majority alive until a vaccine is available is full lockdown social distancing, and any politician telling you otherwise is an imbecile.  Anything else overwhelms any medical support, no matter how rich your insurance investors are.  You might die keeping your precious 1st Amendment (whatever that is).

I'm sorry but I don't care to starve to death before dying from Covid-19. 

Not everyone has the room to store a lot of food and supplies, much less have the extra cash to do so. We have to be able to get to the grocery stores if nothing else. 

If the US does go into a full lockdown... well... if there is an afterlife, I'll see you all there. I probably should warn you, I'm going to be so angry you'll think the devil has invaded heaven. And I'm going to haunt whoever is left alive forever. 😈

Edited March 22, 2020 by Selene Gregoire