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Ginger Xuisse

What are your opinions on the new "Land Price Reductions, New Premium Perks, and Pricing Changes "?

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12 minutes ago, ErikMouse Dawid said:

If you are looking for a blockworld, just go into Minecraft.

blocksworld is a LL product

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13 minutes ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

I know some "Free" members who not only paid a lot into SL but also created some valuable content that LL even integrated into it's permanent content. DO NOT KNOCK down free accounts, They did a lot more than you think. Those 42 groups in my accounts are paid groups, with only maybe 4 of my personal work / business groups. I can't leave any of them if I want to keep my business and I definitely can't afford to go Premium now with the price increase. I do not and will never cash out. 

Not knocking free accounts. Until last month I had been one for over eleven years and I make a TON OF CONTENT. But The Lab doesn't get vert little DIRECT income from free accounts. They do not get tier payments or membership fees.  They do  get the cash out fees IF the free account makes enough money to cash out.  That percentage of people has got to be pretty low --- overall. 

 

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12 hours ago, Ginger Xuisse said:

 Does it makes sense to you?

Do you think is fair? What will you do with the groups you paid for to join? How about those extra groups you delete to add a  temporary group that you need to join?

The changes don't make sense to me, outside of the fact that LL thinks they're gonna get more subscriptions by forcing basic users to upgrade to premium 😠 (LL logic: hey nice groups you have there, but if you want to keep them gives us some money) . I've had problems managing which groups to keep, which to discard & which to keep even with my 41 limit. Now, it's going to be even harder, I guess I'll have to quit even groups I payed to join if I need to join a new one, just cause LL wants more subscriptions 🤑👎.
I seriously hope LL is going to go back on this decision but for some reason I doubt they will even if it upsets users for the sake of making a quick buck.

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To LL we are disposable - it's not about keeping the ones already in-world happy, it's about getting new people into SL = disposable. 

We are paying more for stuff that has been promised to us years ago, yet never received it. We are just paying new money now for old stuff. 

I'm no impressed.

It's totally unfair to chop the basic account holders groups by seven. I'd be more than happy to split my group slots with them and I'm sure other premium members would too, or so I would hope, cause seriously it's just unfair. 

 

 

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For my part, as no Premium member, I think it's not fair to penalize us and reduce our groups number. At the end we give every day much money to Linden through the different payments (marketplace, land rentals, L$ purchases...) Why less groups for us? I don't really understand what it will change... 

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2 hours ago, ananoelle said:

If you can afford $50 usd or twice that a month then premium shouldnt be a problem for you if your not already. 

Grumpity has explained the reasons for lowering groups for basic accounts. See her post for clarification.

Who the heck is Grumpity and what does she expect people who had to pay to join those 42 groups to do now???

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

Who the heck is Grumpity and what does she expect people who had to pay to join those 42 groups to do now???

there is expected nothing, you will not loose any groups you joined alread, just not be able to join new ones before you'r down to the new max

 

Edited by Fox Wijaya

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Posted (edited)

I understand the need to create "perks" to entice basic member to upgrade to premium, or new member to join as premium members, but there is a different between "enticing" and "forcing", and right now, this crosses that line for me.

it was bad enough to add a perk that "discriminates" by allowing premium members to get into full sims ahead of basic members (seriously, it's the same thing as like gong to a popular club or restaurant "hey you have money, come on in" and "oh you don't have money, go to the back of the line and wait"). but now, they're reducing the basic perks and really upping the premium ones, which makes absolutely no sense. and it is such a large differential now, it also goes beyond acceptable limits.

if they think they're going to "entice me" though, they are wrong,. it's having the opposite effect, as i refuse to buy premium now. and from the chat in some groups i shared the link on the changes, it seems i am not the only one either...

Good work LL, on alienating your customers..

Edited by ShibariKate
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First, let me say that these changes are great for me personally.  I am currently on a free membership and I own full private regions.  I don't like having a large number of group memberships so there is no downside to any of the changes for myself.

Having said that, I don't understand, nor do I agree with the changes.  SL has been declining in membership and it seems that very few new players (not alts) are joining.

How does increasing cost for premium and reducing benefits for free members attract new players?  I mentioned in another thread that I don't recall seeing any sort of advertising for SL in recent memory.  Has LL given up getting new players and just decided to generate more money from the existing population?

 

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and in a week time these discussions will be like all others before when changes came ....: history, and all go on as before, some will leave, some will still be grumpy, but all the rest will be business as usual.

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25 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Not knocking free accounts. Until last month I had been one for over eleven years and I make a TON OF CONTENT. But The Lab doesn't get vert little DIRECT income from free accounts. They do not get tier payments or membership fees.  They do  get the cash out fees IF the free account makes enough money to cash out.  That percentage of people has got to be pretty low --- overall. 

 

Seriously???? How would you know what basic members contribute.. If it wasn't for free accounts, there most likely wouldn't be SL. Also, I know lots of free accounts who not only made enough to cash out, but DID NOT! Again, if not for the Basic accounts, I can guarantee, SL would not STILL exist. There is way more Free Accounts then there is Premium Accounts on SL.  

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I've been a premium member for over 11 years and quite honestly, I don't mind the price increase.  It's been awhile since that happened when actually last year the land price went down so I ended up saving money.  Back when I became a premium member, money was tight for me so I paid quarterly.  Today when I went to see the cost of an annual membership I realized that I could have saved $18 if I had paid attention more.  I've now changed to annual membership so that my increase will only result in $9 when the overall increase takes effect.  There are far fewer residents that log in on a daily basis than in the past so I do think that may have something to do with the changes to prices.

As far as the group thing is concerned I remember when we could only have 25 groups (maybe even less?) so I can understand the dismay of basic users to have their groups reduced.  I don't really need to belong to 80 groups quite honestly.   

To sum it up, Second Life is my "get away from it all" and my "creative outlet".  I've been a resident for over 12 years now and have watched so many things change for the better over those years  (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/History_of_Second_Life) so I really don't mind these new changes.  If they start increasing annually, then I'll have more of an issue.

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I am one of those basic accounts who create and sell stuff,  and who cash out and pay transaction fees. I rent a homestead and can't afford a full sim. I am now forced to go premium because I need my groups to run my business - I am constantly leaving and joining event and land groups. I actually always -was- on the fence of going premium, but since I will have to pay VAT those so called 'perks' weren't really worth the money. I don't need mainland or a linden home, or special access to sandboxes. I don't need 60 or 80 groups - i need round about 42. Missed IMs are not an issue to me, I tell people to write notecards. The premium gifts - sorry. I never saw a single one I would have needed or wanted. There is zero benefit for me to go premium.

So. I now will lose groupmembers of my business groups, I will pay the increased monthly fee plus VAT and my transaction fees will double. I will certainly not go premium TWICE to keep the groups for my second main - the account I use for roleplay and roleplay-sim-administration. I spend a lot of Lindens on that account (she is the one who dresses up). This account will get a lot less attractive to me when I have to leave so many groups; and volunteering in RP communities as admin or mentor will get difficult.

Nope. I actually thought Linden Lab was on a good way lately. But punishing your active userbase (and yes, a lot of basic accounts -are- active and -are- contributing to the economy) - is a bad way to generate more income, especially when the benefits of paying more are -zero-.

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A yearly subscription equals $9 a month as opposed to $6. I don’t mind, that’s about what streaming services cost these days.

I just hope that additional income goes to improving SL not Sansar. I feel like premium members are subsidizing Sansar, but I won’t get into that.

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they honestly should leave the basic perks untouched, there is no need at all to punish basic members in this way. as for the premium perks, they really should rethink this completely. people do not need 80 groups, but, with that said, i - would- find a way to find the money to afford a premium member if they:

 

1. get rid of the perk that give preferential treatment by allowing premiums to get into full sims. as i said before, it is discrimination, not a perk.

2. change the weekly stipend to 1500L a week from 300L a week

3. give premium members a 30m x 30m lot with a choice of houses on mainland with 1000 allotted prims

4. 60 groups and 60 attachment points

5. 10% discount to any purchases made inworld and on marketplace (like many other places do.. look at playstation plus for example)

6. reduce land costs by 20% compared to now

 

yes i know i am dreaming big, but when you look at this, it's way better that what they're offering now, and this would be the only way i would even consider getting "enticed" to buy premium

 

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34 minutes ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

If it wasn't for free accounts, there most likely wouldn't be SL.

This.

I doubt that lowering the group limit is going to drive a lot of free accounts away -- and it may even lead to a few extras signing up for Premium (although I doubt group limits on its own will do that). But overall, taking into account all of these changes, there are going to be some profound shifts in the SL economy. Prices will go up, and that's obviously going to impact both consumers and, ultimately, merchants and creators. And decreased cash flow will in turn mean fewer merchants, and a reduction in the amount of new creations.

Shopping is huge here: it's become probably the main attraction for a great many, perhaps even a majority of residents. If shopping becomes more expensive, and less attractive because the selection is smaller -- well, that certainly might impact upon free accounts.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

Seriously????

yes seriously ... i think you, like many , make the mistake LL gets all the money when you buy your L$ ..but hey surprise... they don't
except for the buying fee they get a lot less for it, because the amount they get has to be reserved for cashing out of the creators later.
Sales and transfer fees are the only thing that provide income in this matter.

Edited by Fox Wijaya

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55 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

there is expected nothing, you will not loose any groups you joined alread, just not be able to join new ones before you'r down to the new max

 

thats not the problem , however if i join event groups as a promoter i have to scale down my list below 35 to even join new* ones as a basic account. And scaling down means i have to get rid of some of my paid groups

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34 minutes ago, Plurabelle Laszlo said:

I am one of those basic accounts who create and sell stuff,  and who cash out and pay transaction fees. I rent a homestead and can't afford a full sim. I am now forced to go premium because I need my groups to run my business - I am constantly leaving and joining event and land groups. I actually always -was- on the fence of going premium, but since I will have to pay VAT those so called 'perks' weren't really worth the money. I don't need mainland or a linden home, or special access to sandboxes. I don't need 60 or 80 groups - i need round about 42. Missed IMs are not an issue to me, I tell people to write notecards. The premium gifts - sorry. I never saw a single one I would have needed or wanted. There is zero benefit for me to go premium.

So. I now will lose groupmembers of my business groups, I will pay the increased monthly fee plus VAT and my transaction fees will double. I will certainly not go premium TWICE to keep the groups for my second main - the account I use for roleplay and roleplay-sim-administration. I spend a lot of Lindens on that account (she is the one who dresses up). This account will get a lot less attractive to me when I have to leave so many groups; and volunteering in RP communities as admin or mentor will get difficult.

Nope. I actually thought Linden Lab was on a good way lately. But punishing your active userbase (and yes, a lot of basic accounts -are- active and -are- contributing to the economy) - is a bad way to generate more income, especially when the benefits of paying more are -zero-.

have you consired making a subscrib 0 matic for your business? i heard it will be the next thing after these new changes take place

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Posted (edited)

Been premium for a long time and I will continue to be a premium user so as although I feel the perks could be still a little better for Premium members, I find it important to keep  an extra leak in funds to keep the grid going. In reflection to this, I do grimace at the past desicions made with Linden Labs running that made life for its overseas customers far harder, be that Linden Labs cut so much down over the years, the loss of jobs and regional offices in many of SL's hosted countries. If California is so darn expensive then move the operation to a more profit reflective area. But that's the problem I have with LL, its the lack of transparency re its accounts, its ins and outs and why the need for the price rise costs. If we could have that  and its justifiable, then its really not a problem.   

Which in fairness they should offer better accountability, especially where customers are now beginning to call out companies not delivering quality products to its customer base as in balance to cost. Which is something LL really want to stay out of, if EA and Bethesda are getting it in the neck, its only a matter of time before the albatross necklace is ceremoniously passed. We live in a era of accountability and that's all there is to say on that. 

I just feel with the attitudes happening to inworld , its lack of structure, its lack of lower end permanent staff as a customer resource far more concerning and would rather the increase of funds go towards providing a better and more secure product. Where is the money going ?? 

Edited by Jordy Parkin
edits

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Posted (edited)

The original *HARD CAP* on groups for everyone, including Premium subscribers was 25. So even with the reduction in the number of groups basic-tier membership gives you is still higher than that. And the fact is anyone who has even a basic understanding of how the simulator systems all work in the background, *groups* have always been a big source of lag, especially when they have very large populations; you've all seen it: type today and read tomorrow type lag. So kwitcherbichin'.

The higher cash-out fee is just fine and in-line with the fees charged by Visa and Mastercard and all the worldwide credit card companies in RL. So when you cash out your $5,000 every week and the cut is $150 please pardon me for not only not crying for you, but laughing. hard. So kwitcherbichin'

Premium prices going up by $27 *a year* is pffft. Annual is the *smart* way to subscribe and that's $2.15 a month increase. And your crying about that? So kwitcherbichin'.

I am amazed at how many complaints I am seeing that cry about how these changes will "affect ME". Seriously, kwitcherbichin' andealwithit or g**o, as they say.

Personally, I'm totally fine with all of it. If I weren't then I'd just st*u-anmoovon. At least imanotbitchen'.

Edited by Alyona Su
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1 hour ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

Who the heck is Grumpity and what does she expect people who had to pay to join those 42 groups to do now???

Get a premium account.

Or accept that there has been a minor downgrade to a completely free service that no one is forced to use.

So you paid literal pennies to join some group however long ago. 

Stop making me want to post Veruca Salt memes.

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First thought was "well, something was coming and could have been worse". Second? Its put a stop to my plan of adding another quarterly to bump  up the group a bit (well was planned for the first and could possibly sneak it in but meh - lost the urge now. Sorry, LL). So left with the option of renewing my existing quarterly (and yes the extra) or scrabbling enough to bump to annual. Depends on cashflow TBH. Cashing out can't comment on.

Groups, never filled my slots and yes can understand the infrastructure load they add (been talked about a lot) but also have sympathy for those feeling they are losing out. Other existing perks (beyond the 1024 and messing about with experience stuff) rarely make use of so ... waiting to see if anything new really piques.

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