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Ginger Xuisse

What are your opinions on the new "Land Price Reductions, New Premium Perks, and Pricing Changes "?

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Limiting groups to entice premium membership is actually insulting.  It's as if they can't think of another way to entice subscribers, so they keep rehashing this idea hoping to bring in millions of subscribers.  How about offering better incentives?

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I dont give much of a hoot! 

Everyone deserves a little raise in a decade. They have kept up improvements. They even worked on the houses to show good faith before asking for the raise .

All I do is throw away money on SL: anyway.

Heres another $20. I want to join their new level if I get more prime and a last name! 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Look at this realistically -- not from "your" point of view (and I know that is always difficult). 

It cost LL almost nothing (just some programming time) to switch some group slots FROM "free users" TO "paid users".  Personally I care nothing about group slots as I use 20. 

LL is trying to balance things a bit better. Most "free" folks have the option to go premium if they choose. If groups are all that important to them, then perhaps they will. 

IF a ton of free members leave and THAT translates to a HUGE reduction on the Marketplace, then maybe The Lab will rethink, but honestly I don't believe  it will happen. Most of the basic membership folks that I know (and I was one for over ten years)  spend some money but not tons. There are oh so many "free" citizens that NEVER spend money -- hence LL gets no income from them in any way. The freebie society is a good and viable one, but it doesn't pay the bills on the servers and for the employees.

 

We all have choices. It looks like this will cost me about $150 US more each year.  I could leave my new premium and give up my Bellisseria home and get rid of my land and only sell on the Marketplace.  That doesn't make much sense to me. That is $12.50 a month or so.  Many folks pay more than that for an online game that they play once and discard.

 

Free citizens contribute indirectly though.  They keep sims busy and communities active.  Without them, the SL userbase would drop dramatically, which would ultimately drive away content creators.  It's a domino effect.

Not all basic members are free citizens either.  Some of them are casual people who do not want to pay for premium since they only log in occasionally.  They might buy lindens directly instead.  Limited groups, and other restrictions, feels like punishment to them.

Edited by Nextio
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A quick overview of new "premium" features:

10 more group slots - great, just what I wanted, more spam.

30 more offline IM's - great, just what I wanted, more spam.

"Premium virtual gifts" will remain poorly made, high prim, no-mod junk.

"Premium areas" are a joke, unless you just want to go somewhere unreachable by most your friends.

"Priority support" is useful for billing issues so LL can get your money, but don't expect any extra attention payed to your griefer ARs.

Still, I will likely remain premium just to have some mainland..

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This is a horrible change and I'm starting to feel second life is becoming a complete waste of my money. Raise the price of premium and lower the group limit of basic accounts. Shows linden labs does not care for their userbase and are just in it for the money. Screw the mainland costs if we can't afford 20 bucks a month. They have not done a single thing that is worth it for me to continue paying for this service. 

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44 minutes ago, Nextio said:

Limiting groups to entice premium membership is actually insulting.  It's as if they can't think of another way to entice subscribers, so they keep rehashing this idea hoping to bring in millions of subscribers.  How about offering better incentives?

It's also to threaten people unsubscribing, by leaving them with the choice of removing 50% of their groups or never joining another. They have reason to lower basic slots if they want to rely on subs, even if they aren't going to get new ones.

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I am afraid LL is hurting there Second life world. I have been here for almost 10 years and things just seem to get more and more frustrating. The inability to get to places via tp as of late and the feeling of it not  being a second life. Meaning it gets more and more why do I get on I used to look forward to getting on SL to enjoy the interaction with so many all around the world we would stay up all hours of the night laughing and joking.. That is not SL anymore or so it seems it has become.. With the recent announcement of price increases and increasing and decreasing of group allowances I am afraid it will lose alot of there long time dedicated members which is sad for I always have looked at this as a second life and it is becoming more and more like RL. I understand the price increases it takes alot to run the programs and the maintenance but the people of sl are what keeps LL were it is. But you make it sound like a good thing that you are lowering the tiers most can not afford that anyway. Then you go and take away groups as well, yes increasing premium groups at a cost and they only get 300 lin a month when used to be 500. Most businesses and clubs rely on those groups to get people to there places and in turn LL makes money as well. Without the groups most people in SL will not know of special events or gifts available. Another means of groups is for people working in SL for communication with dj's host's and store CSR's. I hope my voicing my opinion may help you reconsider or reevaluate some of your decisions in this recent announcement. 

 

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Posted (edited)

I seem to have missed the part where they said "oh, yeah and those last names we told you about 434 days ago...."

 

Edited by MichaMoz
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Yes, of course there are upkeep costs, but, SL has not changed much in terms of what they are giving -besides an active virtual platform- Some things are still very basic to what it could be.

But I think the better strategy is to keep people interested not constrained. There are doing something "great". They are controlling simple things like the amounts of groups you can have just to get you tired of the inconvenience and buy up a membership.

As a premium user I feel as if they don't want to give middle ground for memberships (if it becomes either one or the other). If it was me, I would have multiple choices of payments, even weekly ones just so everyone can get the chance to buy it even if its a week. 

I'm really annoyed that the "basic" will get nerfed like that. I think someone in SL should come up with a way of creating data base groups of people for their stores or events, rendering ineffective the use of groups for memberships.

I'm also sad that creators and others are getting screwed with this. They are the ones who make SL a virtually appealing word and in return they get smashed with higher fees.

I have to say that I can't believe the amount of pride put into announcing those changes " Yay new changes and you all getting screwed /me happy dances... not.

 

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So how or why are groups bad? They create lag or something? Maybe Sl should have said something about why. 

Or can someone here tell me

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54 minutes ago, Nextio said:

 Not all basic members are free citizens either.  Some of them are casual people who do not want to pay for premium since they only log in occasionally.  They might buy lindens directly instead.  Limited groups, and other restrictions, feels like punishment to them.

Thankyou this is me.

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Agreeing with Nextio and also adding that a lot of basic members do things in SL , for example DJing, promoting stores, blogging and the list goes on. Some just live on pure social lives belonging to multiple social and gaming groups. I mean, having 32 groups would've been nice if it was the only thing  everyone knew but giving people 42 to then take it away is a crappy thing to do. If you are not going to make it better then leave it as it is.

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4 minutes ago, Ginger Xuisse said:

Agreeing with Nextio and also adding that a lot of basic members do things in SL , for example DJing, promoting stores, blogging and the list goes on. Some just live on pure social lives belonging to multiple social and gaming groups. I mean, having 32 groups would've been nice if it was the only thing  everyone knew but giving people 42 to then take it away is a crappy thing to do. If you are not going to make it better then leave it as it is.

My real life other half is a DJ in SL*. He is also basic. He's not happy about the group thing either.

 

*He was a professional DJ in RL way back in the day and he's damn good at what he does in SL.

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What I feel? I feel LL is playing with us. They first "give" us more prims (which were long over due, btw), the first 1024sqm free of charges, to then -new linden homes (to the lucky -always-online ones). But, to be honest, none of this is really a huge benefit, financiallywise.

Now, doubling the process fees from 2.5 to 5%. That's def abusive, specially to all those creators who invest their money and their time creating, uploading textures and meshes, and on top of all have to pay more to have their money back. Who will feel that? We, the users, the costumers. In other words, we are paying those new houses, that extra 512, like 4 times. And they called 15&16 BD gifts? TO THEM!

What about showing us some love? Real love! Like a stipend of 600 L$ a week. Like making that exchange rate lower. Like (GEEZ) allowing everybody to join 70 groups, LL is showing they can do it. SL is fun and it can be part of our RL due the ppl we meet online and the stuff we do together, but this start to feel like part of a real budget to be considered together with all the rest of RL's bills. 

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4 minutes ago, Aliehs Alex said:

What I feel? I feel LL is playing with us. They first "give" us more prims (which were long over due, btw), the first 1024sqm free of charges, to then -new linden homes (to the lucky -always-online ones). But, to be honest, none of this is really a huge benefit, financiallywise.

Now, doubling the process fees from 2.5 to 5%. That's def abusive, specially to all those creators who invest their money and their time creating, uploading textures and meshes, and on top of all have to pay more to have their money back. Who will feel that? We, the users, the costumers. In other words, we are paying those new houses, that extra 512, like 4 times. And they called 15&16 BD gifts? TO THEM!

What about showing us some love? Real love! Like a stipend of 600 L$ a week. Like making that exchange rate lower. Like (GEEZ) allowing everybody to join 70 groups, LL is showing they can do it. SL is fun and it can be part of our RL due the ppl we meet online and the stuff we do together, but this start to feel like part of a real budget to be considered together with all the rest of RL's bills. 

Yes, increasing the process fee will make the creators increase the price of their items, making us buy more lindens etc etc. Its a whole chain of events just for an extra 2.5%.

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Just now, Ginger Xuisse said:

Yes, increasing the process fee will make the creators increase the price of their items, making us buy more lindens etc etc. Its a whole chain of events just for an extra 2.5%.

I doubt all that many creators will change their pricing structure for 2.5 percent. As creators we have already had some hefty processing fee raises and I didn't note a lot of price raises then. IF there were a huge increase in Marketplace fees (like 20 - 30 percent) you can bet that many creators would indeed raise their prices. For 2.4 percent it is hardly worth the effort of the price changing :D.

 

Sure there are others that feel differently but I don't think you will see a terrific change from 100 lindens to 103 lindens.  Folks might certainly price NEW items a bit more. 

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25 minutes ago, Louminca said:

So how or why are groups bad? They create lag or something? Maybe Sl should have said something about why. 

Or can someone here tell me

Patch mentioned in a recent comment (sorry don't remember where) that LARGE groups do indeed add to lag. Small groups not so much. Apparently group info needs to load each time you teleport. I may have that wrong but if so someone can correct me. There IS an issue though and after reading what her wrote I went and deleted a bunch of groups I really didn't need to be in. 

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A thought just occurred to me. Is LL trying to recoup its losses on Sansar by these changes and rate hikes?  Could be a very strong possibility.  Make us pay for not transitioning over to Sansar. I mean, I know LL can be nefarious at times but damn. That would really take the cake.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, amberstarfield said:

A quick overview of new "premium" features:

10 more group slots - great, just what I wanted, more spam. 30 more offline IM's - great, just what I wanted, more spam. "Premium virtual gifts" will remain poorly made, high prim, no-mod junk. "Premium areas" are a joke, unless you just want to go somewhere unreachable by most your friends.

 

I do love SL. However I have to agree with the above. I personally do not see these 'perks' as enticing to join or continue with premium membership. I really don't care about getting more IM's or groups (or about land costs, but I get how that might generate more money for LL).  I would rather have a lower premium cost and leave IM's and groups as they are. And the post only mentions futher improvements as new home themes (okay I'm on board with that!) and a new membership level (well that obviously will be a higher premium). So apart from the new homes I'm not really seeing premium as really being improved (apart from the homes, but the novelty will wear off...)

I'm not sure how I feel about the price hike. I do understand that LL have their costs, of course, so on the one hand I'm thinking, yeah they gotta do it,  but on the other hand,  I question the the way it's being done. I think the new home themes probably will go some way to drawing more premium accounts (seems to have already), but will this premium rise put those people off now? Once the novelty of their new home has worn off they might well go to basic. So the increase in premium accounts may well be temporary unless there are more perks coming to make them feel they are getting their money's worth.

I don't believe hiking up the cost so it's nearly $100 annually (and more if you pay monthly etc.) is going to attract more new accounts (ie. those not already in SL). I think a really flexible premium range might be better with different perks at each stage. For example (note, these are just vague illustrations I'm not saying these are the right or best ideas)

  •  at the bottom , level 1, you could get maybe a small stipend or something else, but not a LL home.
  • At level 2 get a LL house too, and something else
  • level 3....well you get the general idea.

Benefits to LL:

  • the lower premium could draw new premium members (or convert those who've been on the fence about getting premium).
  •  Maybe they'll stick at that level but it's still income for LL, and one they might not have got otherwise  ( kinda like when you get that great offer at the store even though you didn't really need it, just because it seemed like a good deal or didn't cost you much so why not...)
  • Some of those will choose to upgrade to get more benefits cos now they're here they're loving SL so much:)

I may have missed the mark with the ideas, so don't crucify me 😁. I just think maybe there are some other ways LL could go about the premium to both attract, convert and retain users.

 

Edited by Evangeline Arcadia
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The good for region owners: One region will cost $17.75 less per month with the $20 region decrease and the $2.25 member increase.

The good for all other premium members: ???

The good for everybody else: ???

The whatever for all premium: 10 more groups, ok then. Offline messages have been bugged for years and 30 more is unlikely to make a difference.

The whatever for basic: 10 fewer IM's, see previous line.

The bad for premium with less than full region: Pay $27/yr for almost nothing more.

The bad for non-premium, basic plebs: Less groups and if already at the 42 limit, will have to leave 8 groups to join 1 other group.... wtf?

 

Since I own a region, this change seems to be a slight positive for me. The region price change isn't enough to actually make a difference, its more of a nice gesture than anything less. Now if they dropped it by around 40%, I'd start consider get another region or two and starting up a resident created experience, but at the current prices, such things are beyond being economical. If they offered the buy-down program again, I would be quite happy (I missed it last time because LL didn't post it anywhere other than the blog).

I am having a hard time seeing any upside for every other class of resident, eg. all that don't own full region(s). The premium raise doesn't seem too bad given it hasn't changed in forever and inflation is a thing, but it would have been nice if there was actually something of value for non region owners in this. Given how extremely unreliable offline group notices are (50-95% failure rate on average in the tests I have been doing over the last 2.5 years for BUG-40824), the higher limit is near meaningless.

Making premium more expensive and basic worse is not a good start on convincing more residents to upgrade. The $17.75 savings on $255/m is unlikely to sway more than a handful in to getting a new region.

  • At a minimum, the group limit needs to be unchanged for basic, this alone is the most stupid change. Basic should just remain the same, or at worse, new limits only affect new users (and that would still be poop).
  • There is still a massive volume of abandoned mainland, seriously, another tier boost would be nice to see.
  • If they want more region owners, drop the price to an even $199, lower the setup few to $50-100, and do a week long promo in June to waive the setup fee.
  • After the cloud move: Add more adult mainland regions and finally finish the Zindra continent. Further region and tier price drops to promote more new land owners.

 

57 minutes ago, amberstarfield said:

"Priority support" is useful for billing issues so LL can get your money

This was the primary benefit, and often whole reason, for being premium long ago when billing was a constant problem and billing tickets were backlogs over 6-9+ months for years.

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I ranted my butt off over at the other thread: 

TL;DR: I like some things, some I don't. While I can continue to afford it and enjoy any benefits at all to being Premium I'll continue to pay. When I don't, or can't afford it, I'll stop. Simple.

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12 minutes ago, Kadah Coba said:

The good for region owners: One region will cost $17.75 less per month with the $20 region decrease and the $2.25 member increase.

The good for all other premium members: ???

The good for everybody else: ???

The whatever for all premium: 10 more groups, ok then. Offline messages have been bugged for years and 30 more is unlikely to make a difference.

The whatever for basic: 10 fewer IM's, see previous line.

The bad for premium with less than full region: Pay $27/yr for almost nothing more.

The bad for non-premium, basic plebs: Less groups and if already at the 42 limit, will have to leave 8 groups to join 1 other group.... wtf?

 

Since I own a region, this change seems to be a slight positive for me. The region price change isn't enough to actually make a difference, its more of a nice gesture than anything less. Now if they dropped it by around 40%, I'd start consider get another region or two and starting up a resident created experience, but at the current prices, such things are beyond being economical. If they offered the buy-down program again, I would be quite happy (I missed it last time because LL didn't post it anywhere other than the blog).

I am having a hard time seeing any upside for every other class of resident, eg. all that don't own full region(s). The premium raise doesn't seem too bad given it hasn't changed in forever and inflation is a thing, but it would have been nice if there was actually something of value for non region owners in this. Given how extremely unreliable offline group notices are (50-95% failure rate on average in the tests I have been doing over the last 2.5 years for BUG-40824), the higher limit is near meaningless.

Making premium more expensive and basic worse is not a good start on convincing more residents to upgrade. The $17.75 savings on $255/m is unlikely to sway more than a handful in to getting a new region.

  • At a minimum, the group limit needs to be unchanged for basic, this alone is the most stupid change. Basic should just remain the same, or at worse, new limits only affect new users (and that would still be poop).
  • There is still a massive volume of abandoned mainland, seriously, another tier boost would be nice to see.
  • If they want more region owners, drop the price to an even $199, lower the setup few to $50-100, and do a week long promo in June to waive the setup fee.
  • After the cloud move: Add more adult mainland regions and finally finish the Zindra continent. Further region and tier price drops to promote more new land owners.

 

This was the primary benefit, and often whole reason, for being premium long ago when billing was a constant problem and billing tickets were backlogs over 6-9+ months for years.

What is it about you that makes me feel good whenever we agree on something? Thank you for chiming in!

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Posted (edited)

The "premium perk" I'd actually want is being able to pick a surname. I've been Resident since 2014. Didn't like the generic surname then, really don't like it now.

It would be better if groups stayed the same for existing basic members and the number available went down for NEW basic accounts, and the surname change was rolled out as an extra paid feature available to premium members only. New basic accounts are either brand-new people, who won't be as involved in as many RPs / social groups / merchant things for awhile as people who have been here for years or over a decade, or they're alts and the user behind the alt can get by with fewer on that account. I rarely exceed a dozen groups, but that's apparently unusual.

Edited by callistanull
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2 minutes ago, callistanull said:

The "premium perk" I'd actually want is being able to pick a surname. I've been Resident since 2014. Didn't like the generic surname then, really don't like it now.

It would be better if groups stayed the same for existing basic members and the number available went down for NEW basic accounts, and the surname change was rolled out as an extra paid feature available to premium members only. New basic accounts are either brand-new people, who won't be as involved in as many RPs / social groups / merchant things for awhile as people who have been here for years or over a decade, or they're alts and the user behind the alt can get by with fewer on that account. I rarely exceed a dozen groups, but that's apparently unusual.

I think you may have forgotten to take one thing into account on the changing last name thing. A lot of us basic accounts have last names because we've been here that long and longer. So why shouldn't we be able to pay to change our last names?

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i can have misread but i hear nobody about the VAT... as far i know EU residents now get the VAT on premium waved away, but it seems to come back again according the post!
That is a adittional 20% for the raised premiums!!! ...ehm...guys that gets a bit nuts!

VERY small font...

Quote

Please note that monthly and quarterly Premium Memberships for Residents who live in some European Union countries may also be charged value-added tax (VAT) in accordance with sales tax regulations. Please visit our VAT Policy page for more details and our Corporate Pricing page for a list of impacted countries.

 

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