How come EVERYONE can access Moderate, and Adult regions.

[Rob Huntsman]

I was just thinking about this after seeing a child on a moderate sim over on the Wild west sims. For example, should Moderate and Adult rated sims require PAYMENT information on their account to confirm that person is an adult?

Not a new 30 day old account. Because kids cannot own credit/debit cards until 18 =p.

[Parhelion Palou]

57 minutes ago, Haselden said:

I was just thinking about this after seeing a child on a moderate sim over on the Wild west sims. For example, should Moderate and Adult rated sims require PAYMENT information on their account to confirm that person is an adult?

Not a new 30 day old account. Because kids cannot own credit/debit cards until 18 =p. 

How do you know that the person who owns the account is a child? The avatar's appearance has nothing to do with the age of the person behind the avatar.

If you know that the person with the child avatar is under age, file an AR.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Parhelion Palou
lost a 'you'

[LittleMe Jewell]

Child avatar does not equal a RL child behind the avatar.  Child avatars are allowed anywhere except around sexual stuff.

[MoiraKathleen]

I don't know what the percentage of players is who don't have payment info on file, but being required to have it,  in order to access moderate or adult regions,  could negatively affect people who are adults but not in a position where they are able to provide payment info.  There may be valid reasons why someone doesn't want to provide that info. 

[Callum Meriman]

53 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

If you know that the person with the child avatar is under age, file an AR.

I'd take it further... if anyone claims they are underage in real life, AR them no matter what avatar they have on.

I say that because there is a much greater chance that underage person is going to be dressed up as a Gorean masta, or a slave in silks, or a mega-buxxom lady with an aircraft carrier butt, or a muscled superhero... and not wanting to be a pixel-kid.

 

[Fionalein]

2 hours ago, Haselden said:

I was just thinking about this after seeing a child on a moderate sim over on the Wild west sims. For example, should Moderate and Adult rated sims require PAYMENT information on their account to confirm that person is an adult?

Not a new 30 day old account. Because kids cannot own credit/debit cards until 18 =p.

Your gor mind plays tricks on you again. See, if you are not about to sexually enslave the loser of a battle there is nothing wrong with someone playing a 6 year old in a shootout 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Fionalein

[Ethan Paslong]

2 hours ago, Haselden said:

 For example, should Moderate and Adult rated sims require PAYMENT information on their account to confirm that person is an adult?

Because kids cannot own credit/debit cards until 18 =p.

both are worthless criteria ... the age verifiction is made by the date you give during sign up.
Kids aren't really stupid .. they ad dads or mums credit card and both of the most common limits are nothing anymore.

[Cindy Evanier]

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

I'd take it further... if anyone claims they are underage in real life, AR them no matter what avatar they have on.

I did this a couple of years ago with some girl boasting in local chat she was 13 in RL .  I don't care if she was lying or not but she was gone from search a few hours later 

[Syo Emerald]

4 hours ago, Haselden said:

I was just thinking about this after seeing a child on a moderate sim over on the Wild west sims. For example, should Moderate and Adult rated sims require PAYMENT information on their account to confirm that person is an adult?

Not a new 30 day old account. Because kids cannot own credit/debit cards until 18 =p.

How do you know the account holder/user is a child? Because they had no payment info, because their avatar was too short, because you assumed child avatars are used by actual children? Because their voice was too high? None of that would tell you its a child.

In theory, there is no limitation for a minor to enter SL, if they are determined to lie and enter a fake birthdate. This hasn't always been the case. When I joined Second Life, there were two steps to verify you were an adult. Moderate sims were accesable just like they are today, you had to have a birthdate that made you 18 or older. For the adult sims you had to have real prove you were an adult...I think I used my drivers licence back in the day.

But that has been gone for ages and SL is now not different from all the porn websites out there, which simply ask if you are over 18 or not. Looking back, I think no system is 100% secure, considering a minor could always take the needed verification from their parents. I think its good that the old system is gone, as I think its more important to value the privacy/anonymity of your general userbase instead of preventing a hand full of minors to roam around (which is in essence their parents responsibility anyway).

[Talligurl]

Requiring payment info, will just cause underage people to "borrow" a parents credit card and use that to sign up.  

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

But that has been gone for ages and SL is now not different from all the porn websites out there, which simply ask if you are over 18 or not.

How do YOU know that all the porn websites out there simply ask if you are 18 or not? Huh???

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Chic Aeon]

Just adding a  bit of historical info for those not as old as I am (rez day coming up in a couple of days :D). There WAS a time long, long ago when the only people that could get into adult sims were ones that DID go through a long and laborious process of proving they were old enough --- much (if I remember correctly) like the process now used for cashing out linden dollars to Paypal as I remember that Passports were one method used.  

Not only was it a pain for those that went through all the steps, it was time consuming for The Lab. The result was that it hurt the economy since plenty of people did NOT want to get verified (me for one as I so didn't care).  That method was abandoned not all that long after its arrival. Perhaps someone else that is OLD can remember more details. 

 

[Cindy Evanier]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

How do YOU know that all the porn websites out there simply ask if you are 18 or not? Huh???

 

You told her? 👼

[Claireschen Hesten]

28 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Just adding a  bit of historical info for those not as old as I am (rez day coming up in a couple of days :D). There WAS a time long, long ago when the only people that could get into adult sims were ones that DID go through a long and laborious process of proving they were old enough --- much (if I remember correctly) like the process now used for cashing out linden dollars to Paypal as I remember that Passports were one method used.  

Not only was it a pain for those that went through all the steps, it was time consuming for The Lab. The result was that it hurt the economy since plenty of people did NOT want to get verified (me for one as I so didn't care).  That method was abandoned not all that long after its arrival. Perhaps someone else that is OLD can remember more details. 

 

I believe age verification was provided by a company called Aristotle back in the day you could not get on to adult or age restricted land unless you went through the age verification process or had payment info on file. To get age verified you needed official documentation that could prove you were an adult such as a passport, full/provisional driving license, identity card etc. if the web form worked if it didn't work you needed to manually verify and what a joy that was  you needed to provide a scan of your passport, driving license etc. (blanking out any unnecessary areas was fine) and a letter such as bank letter or gas bill. it was more hassle than it was worth if i didn't need to have done it back in the day i wouldn't have. I can well understand why people did not want to verify and the process was removed

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Cindy Evanier said:

You told her? 👼

Yes, but she wouldn't have known that until you poste....

Er....

Oh no I didn't! How dare you suggest that I even know what those wotsitcalled - porn? - sites are?!

[Syo Emerald]

5 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

How do YOU know that all the porn websites out there simply ask if you are 18 or not? Huh???

Eh...research purposes...for a friend. 😶

[Pussycat Catnap]

I always assumed all child avatars were being run by middle aged women sipping coffee in a house with too many cats and those nice fuzzy slippers...

Kinda like how the bigger and beefier the muscles on a guy avatar, the younger I tend to assume the person behind the keyboard is.  Or if it's a naked blond with no AO. But only if it lacks the AO... and approaches you and does that head up and down animation... - that's a kid. 😎

 

[Rob Huntsman]

9 hours ago, Talligurl said:

Requiring payment info, will just cause underage people to "borrow" a parents credit card and use that to sign up.  

All parents ask their children. "What are you going to use my credit card for?"

If they say to get into Nudity regions, then the answer will most likely be a No...Just saying.. Food for thought.

[Talligurl]

I put borrow in quotes, because I meant the children wouldn't nessesrily ask before Using the card.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Haselden said:

All parents ask their children. "What are you going to use my credit card for?"

If they say to get into Nudity regions, then the answer will most likely be a No...Just saying.. Food for thought.

First off, you are assuming said child will ask before borrowing the credit card - many don't bother.  If they only use the card to attach to their account and never actually buy anything with it, the parents may never know.

Second, you are assuming that every parent actually parents their children properly and thus cares what they do online.  I have known parents that didn't have a problem with their teenager viewing internet porn.  Their position was that said child is old enough and it's no different than looking at girly magazines (yes, I've met a few like that).

[Callum Meriman]

2 hours ago, Haselden said:

All parents ask their children. "What are you going to use my credit card for?"

Some kids will just purloin the card when Mum isn't looking. If they don't spend anything they will never be caught.

[Qie Niangao]

3 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Some kids will just purloin the card when Mum isn't looking. If they don't spend anything they will never be caught.

I wonder if that's the real difference between "Payment Info On File" and "Payment Info Used" -- if "used" then at least one charge appeared on a credit card statement at some point.

Wasn't there also a thing where they'd book some tiny charge and then back it out right away? I always thought that was to establish some extra level of validity to the card, but maybe it was all to get that charge to appear on a statement, thus alerting penny-conscious parents.

Also, I wonder if maybe having a credit card charge on file might shift from the Lab to the cardholder the liability for SL scarring Little Johnny's virginal eyes.

[chibiusa Ling]

20 hours ago, Haselden said:

I was just thinking about this after seeing a child on a moderate sim

If thats what shocks you in SL...log out now....what is still to come will break you 😂

 

19 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Child avatars are allowed anywhere except around sexual stuff.

Close, if you read the actual section on this they can actually literally go anywhere, sexual stuff or not. The only restriction on them is they are not allowed to engage in it or solicit it other than that they could ride a pogo stick around the worst sims in SL with god knows what going on and still not be breaking TOS. I only know this because of several arguments with bird brain sim owners who think my short avatar equals a child avatar (It doesn't) and believe the rumour mills version of the terms of service. So I ended up looking it up properly out of curiosity and was surprised at how little restriction there actually was. 

[Polenth Yue]

9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Just adding a  bit of historical info for those not as old as I am (rez day coming up in a couple of days :D). There WAS a time long, long ago when the only people that could get into adult sims were ones that DID go through a long and laborious process of proving they were old enough --- much (if I remember correctly) like the process now used for cashing out linden dollars to Paypal as I remember that Passports were one method used.  

Not only was it a pain for those that went through all the steps, it was time consuming for The Lab. The result was that it hurt the economy since plenty of people did NOT want to get verified (me for one as I so didn't care).  That method was abandoned not all that long after its arrival. Perhaps someone else that is OLD can remember more details.

I remember having to give my passport number to be verified. It was a pain not to be verified as someone who liked hunts, because it'd cut a bunch of locations out of the chain. This was before the scripted hunt idea really took off, so if a location wasn't accessible, you'd have to find the main list of all the locations to skip ahead (and hope that list had been updated properly).

It also had a similar issue to today, in that a lot of places requiring verification were not really what you'd think of when someone says it's an adult area. They might have some adult stuff hidden away, but the main public areas weren't, so there was plenty that someone might want to see that had nothing to do with adult content. Not being able to visit random landmarks wasn't fun.

I'm glad it's easier for people now. I've been able to go wherever I want for years, but I do still remember the issues before I was verified. "No, you can't visit that magical unicorn garden." "Is it a sex garden or something?" "Well, no, it's just cuddle poses, but only verified adults can see the majestic wonder of unicorns!"

[Sasy Scarborough]

Hobbles in with her walker.... back in myyyyyyy day (snickers) you could not join Second Life at all without payment info, you had to sign up with either a credit card and as someone said they charged you like 37c and then refunded it, and you were given 237L I think it was, which was One US dollar back then, it was woohoo money. The only other option to join SL was a cell phone account, because you had to sign up etc in the US for those back then,  was kind of funny as not the case in all countries. They changed it in 2007 so that was when there was a big influx.

In regards to the kid avatar on mature sim, realistically and respectfully it should not happen, but that being said, I hardly know what I am wearing even when looking at myself the whole time, and can imagine that someone that may only play at a child avatar on occasion or back and forth, may have just tpd without considering what they looked like at the time, if they were heavily engaged in being there then who knows, they could own the sim for all we know, but if you do swap I can imagine it to be hard to keep track, just as people with overly sexual looking attachments tp to General sims because they are commercial locations etc, have no filter on not really appropriate in the moment. It would be up to the kid avatar to make sure they have only general sims checked for search and tping I guess. 

(EDIT) I just looked into it, and I knew it was like that but realise now that that is a limitation that SL may consider looking into, the access to drop down stacks,  general, general and mature or general mature adult, there is not mature and adult or adult only option, so that is why people that are adult are able to tp to general and not even considering it, but kids do have the choice to choose general only, but there is a lot of commercial still listed Mature that should not be, that general only would not be able to access, so they don't.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Sasy Scarborough
adding research found :)