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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Truth be told, I think they could have gotten away with "some" cloning from the very beginning and we wouldn't have complained....

We have simply been spoiled with hundreds of unique hand designed regions.

We (my partner & I) would not have complained because we wouldn't have become premium.  Before exploring Belli, I had never been premium.

It is precisely the diversity of regions and geographically unique destinations that brought us.

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About the cloning/copying/stamping of regions: I am no fan but I understand that the team is under pressure to get enough homes out to accommodate the refugees from the 2010 Linden Homes once they start shutting down those regions.

I have no issue with the way South Belli/VictoryBell/VickyBell was copied/cloned/whatever, it's similar to how classic city planning was done all around the world.
I am, however, no fan of how the triangle between Bellisseria and Jeogeot is being populated and I hope LL will rethink how that area is done. IMO it looks haphazard, messy, uninterested and, I'd hate to say it, even amateurishly laid out. Not Lindens/Moles worthy at all IMO.
I sincerely hope that the triangle as it is now will not remain this way, but serve as a basis for something much better, like the high quality and creative work that we have come to know from the Lab.

Edited by Fritigern Gothly
I suck at spelling + Added an extra line to explain how I feel.
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If they were going to clone, why not do the entirety of Bellisseria, far away from Bellisseria 1? Like they have done with the old homes. I wouldn’t notice it as much if it were at the other end of the grid. These tiny hb clusters popping up everywhere looks like an after thought.

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The cloning, even on the original LL homes, can only be seen on the world map. Full stop. You cannot see it on the ground, other than similar house styles grouped in a neighborhood. Oh, wait, that happens in RL neighborhoods, too. Go figure. How dare those architects reuse the same plans on more than one house, or developers create the same road patterns in a four-block area. The horror!

The cloning is no big deal. And as toxic as many of the complaints were early-on, how can anyone blame them for doing it? Not to mention the time and costs in doing it without cloning. It comes down to efficiency.

Edited by Alyona Su
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24 minutes ago, Milk Pixelmaid said:

If they were going to clone, why not do the entirety of Bellisseria, far away from Bellisseria 1?

Because it's too late to clone the whole of Bellisseria. Cloning populated regions includes cloning the user's content, and that will cause problems of their own. 

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39 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

I have no issue with the way South Belli/VictoryBell/VickyBell was copied/cloned/whatever, it's similar to how classic city planning was done all around the world.
I am, however, no fan of how the triangle between Bellisseria and Jeogeot is being populated and I hope LL will rethink how that area is done. IMO it looks haphazard, messy, uninterested and, I'd hate to say it, even amateurishly laid out. Not Lindens/Moles worthy at all IMO.
I sincerely hope that the triangle as it is now will not remain this way, but serve as a basis for something much better, like the high quality and creative work that we have come to know from the Lab.

I do agree with this.  While I think that many other Premiums will not notice or care, I also am not a fan of the way that section currently looks on the map.

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3 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

Because it's too late to clone the whole of Bellisseria. Cloning populated regions includes cloning the user's content, and that will cause problems of their own. 

It’s not too late. They could clone the continent then remove all user contents. Done. 

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13 minutes ago, Milk Pixelmaid said:

It’s not too late. They could clone the continent then remove all user contents. Done. 

I am sure they saved OARs of ALL the regions BEFORE they released them.

With these they could make a Belli II somewhere without any user- content.

If you do not know an OAR: that is a file in which you can save and upload a whole region - terraformimg and all the content.

 

Edited by Leora Jacobus

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8 minutes ago, Leora Jacobus said:

I am sure they saved OARs of ALL the regions BEFORE they released them.

With these they could make a Belli II somewhere without any user- content.

If you do not know an OAR: that is a file in which you can save and upload a whole region - terraformimg and all the content.

 

That's OpenSim. LL uses their own system. I asked a Linden (Patch?) about their backup method, and they backup system does not include most of the options which we have at our disposal on OpenSim.

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Takes some believing!. Open Sim is the lowbudget version of SL using the same code. Can you really imagine the Lindens themselves are not able to save backups of regions? They do not give them to US, but they must have them in case something goes wrong, hardeware dies and so on - they must be able to restore the data from backups.

 

Edited by Leora Jacobus

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8 minutes ago, Christhiana said:

I really don't like the idea of a cloned Bellisseria II 

There is one little advantage to having cloned regions - I've often read posts of people wishing to be in a certain region or if they can a particular home spot because they love the location there, but they may not have been able to to get it. Having cloned areas, i.e. providing more than one of a location,  opens up the hope an possibility they can:) Could be nice for some.

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I appreciate that LL is trying to meet the demand but I feel like cloning the squishy pickle and other houseboat regions and stamping them right next to mainland is a bad idea. I'm holding off judgement on the Victorian area until I can see how cloning effects the region for myself but I'm skeptical. The only reason I have a premium membership is to live in a curated and unique neighborhood away from mainland.

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1 minute ago, Evangeline Arcadia said:

There is one little advantage to having cloned regions - I've often read posts of people wishing to be in a certain region or if they can a particular home spot because they love the location there, but they may not have been able to to get it. Having cloned areas, i.e. providing more than one of a location,  opens up the hope an possibility they can:) Could be nice for some.

I have nothing against cloned regions. But if they clone Bellisseria and put it down somewhere else, it would divide the community. 

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Just now, Leora Jacobus said:

Takes some believing!. Open Sim is the lowbudget version of SL using the same code. 

Nope. OpenSim and SL do NOT share the same code. I don't even know where you got that from.

OpenSim was written FROM SCRATCH to provide similar functionality as SecondLife's server. NONE of the contributors to OpenSim's code have ever seen the code behind LL's servers.
Moreover, OpenSim is written in C# and LL's servers are written in (IIRC) C++ although only a Linden can shed light on that. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

Nope. OpenSim and SL do NOT share the same code. I don't even know where you got that from.

OpenSim was written FROM SCRATCH to provide similar functionality as SecondLife's server. NONE of the contributors to OpenSim's code have ever seen the code behind LL's servers.
Moreover, OpenSim is written in C# and LL's servers are written in (IIRC) C++ although only a Linden can shed light on that. 

 

Well if you say so I must believe it for you seem to be far more IT knowledgable than me. I only heard it somewhere, do not remember where. Might be I mistook it for the Third- Party- Viewers ... THEY use the same code? I remember finding it odd that LL should have given away their code as open sourcce.

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To look at the big picture in the map how Bellisseria continent's size is in relation to some others.
All old Linden home continent's (4 in all) locations can be seen here too.

Bellisseria (with Victorian regions) is about the size of two old Linden home continents. There are four themes, foe more are coming. There is lots of space for expansion of Bellisseria on the east side of the Victorian regions. And there is lots of space on the east side of Jeogeot and also on the south side. So Even when Bellisseria expands more, there is no need to to make the expansion as separate isolated continent. Which is great. "Let's make Bellisseria a big continent!" 😃 😉

2019-12-10_Old-Linden-homes.thumb.jpg.ee6746655aaf6d020cb6ba550df5089a.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Leora Jacobus said:

Well if you say so I must believe it for you seem to be far more IT knowledgable than me. I only heard it somewhere, do not remember where. Might be I mistook it for the Third- Party- Viewers ... THEY use the same code? I remember finding it odd that LL should have given away their code as open sourcce.

I do have a few credentials on the subject of OpenSim, but I don't like using that as an argument in a discussion.
As for the viewer code, yes, that has been open source since 2007, known as project Snowglobe at first, then project Snowstorm since viewer 2 and up. Most third-party viewers are based on the code of those two viewers, with their own modifications of course.
But trust me when I say that Opensim and the LL servers do not share the same code.

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5 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

To look at the big picture in the map how Bellisseria continent's size is in relation to some others.
All old Linden home continent's (4 in all) locations can be seen here too.

2019-12-10_Old-Linden-homes.thumb.jpg.ee6746655aaf6d020cb6ba550df5089a.jpg

I'm sorry for digressing from your reason to make the above post, but my thoughts went haywire and I just had to write them down.

The image kind of makes me wonder how many old (2010) homes there are in total. I seem to remember a number of around 40.000 but I don't trust my memory.

We know that over time, all those old homes will need to be replaced with new homes but how many new Linden Homes do we have now? And I mean including the unopened regions like South Bellisseria, the islands surrounding Bellisseria and the Jeogeot triangle.

Also, the size of the land needed won't match the size of the old Linden Homes, because the average parcel size has increased with an expected even greater increase when Premium Plus becomes a thing.

So basically, I am wondering how far along we are, assuming that ONLY the old homes need to be replaced, and not accounting for new premiums.

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4 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Do you all not think that LL, @Patch Linden, and the LDPW have a plan for what they're doing? None of these areas have been released yet, right, nor are they accessible to the public? With all the work that has been put into making Bellisseria so unique and wonderful, do you really think they're just going to dump a bunch of crap in the sea between the original Bellisseria and Jeogeot and leave it that way?!

LL also knows better than anyone how many premium members are trying for Linden Homes and what themes people want. They have access that we don't, remember? 

Patch and Co. have plans... short-term and long-term. I have no idea what any of them are, but with what has been done in the past 9 months, I don't think they're going to suddenly eff it up now. 

OK, I take the point the point you're making, which I think is that we should wait and see. Certainly that is true.

But don't be disappointed if these areas remain right where they are.  Remember, LL has a whole grid to use as a scratch pad.  I don't think that's what they're doing here; I think we're seeing the fruits of their plan, which appears to be to create some linking between Sansar, Belli, & Jeogeot. It's possible that they may not like how it's turning out and may change the plan (as they did with the original squishy pickle), but we are, I think, seeing a planned development west of Jeogeot.

Beth, may I note that in your rush to defend LL you have called this planned development a "bunch of crap in the sea" and implied that, if they DID leave things as is, they would "eff it up now".  Beth, you just can't help yourself, you may not always be right but you are infallibly entertaining.  I can't wait to visit the Chintzy Lady!

The demand for houseboats remains pretty dang voracious, particularly for ones on square parcels with unobstructed sea views.  The small atolls scattered about should help that situation greatly.  Also, the design of the 9-region blobs is really beautiful, if you cam into one.  I could easily see LL leasing those blobs as pre-built private estates, in fact, for a pretty penny.  Which is not compatible with their business model, but what of that.

All that said, yeah, west of Jeogeot is looking kinda miscellaneous.  And I feel for the folks on that mainland coast with their aircraft carriers and jets and immense yachts.

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47 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

<snip>

And I feel for the folks on that mainland coast with their aircraft carriers and jets and immense yachts.

I wouldn't be too worried about them - they are going to look out over the water and see nice ordered houseboats with well decorated islands and clear skies.

That sounds a lot better than the view some of those houseboat owners will have - which will be full of the typical mainland junk... ugly half finished builds, huge privacy screens, low altitude skyboxes and work platforms etc.

I'll be flying or sailing over that way a lot, and I know what I'd rather be looking at :)

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It's not so much the view that I wonder about (I assume mainlanders are used to coping with just about any view), but the cluttered waterways where they used to have open sailing and flying space.   The new Belli areas are so very close to the coast.

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The north west coast of Jeogeot never had open sailing or flying space until recently. The extra water regions along the coastal edge were only added when Belli was placed - and those are still there. The new mini-continents / islands (for the most part), are occupying areas that until now have never existed, so in fact, with this latest mega release, LL have made it easier than ever to move around that part of Jeogeot.

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As we saw a few days ago, one group of houseboat regions practically butted-up against Jeogeot. These have now been moved one-region westwards.

See the before and after pics:

 

Before:

01.png

After:

02.png

Edited by Eowyn Southmoor
adding text

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14 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

As we saw a few days ago, one group of houseboat regions practically butted-up against Jeogeot. These have now been moved one-region westwards.

See the before and after pics:

 

Before:

01.png

After:

02.png

I had actually sent an IM to the owner of the NW corner parcel on Haengbok that her offsim stuff might get returned soon because it was overlapping where the houseboats were at the time.  Though if all of that is now to be sailing waters, she'll likely still get her offsim stuff returned anyway, even without it overlapping a houseboat parcel.

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