Abusive content/group/sims in Second Life

[Alwin Alcott]

52 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

Alwin I am not sure why you keep repeating this when : 

Anna clearly says in her very first message : 

"So don't go there.  Better still, go away."

But anyways - yes obviously I won't go there - thanks. 

 

and that last is, in my opinion what Anna said... do not go there

and not..as you, and a few others : go away from this forum.

[AshaShanti]

 

whatever you say Alwin - if you wanna be right - you are more than welcome.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

29 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Everything takes place in the mind. Whether it's an actual act in RL, an imagination in RL, or a simulation in SL, it's in the RL person's mind, and that is disturbing. It could be argued that simulating it relieves the RL impulse and prevents it from happening in RL. It could also be argued that simulating it could fuel the impulse, leading to doing it in RL. The people simulating such acts may be doing it just for a laugh, or they may truly want to actually do such things. There are many realities concerning it.

On the whole, I agree with the OP that such things ought not to be allowed in SL, whether or not it's just for a laugh. They are evil.

No no, LL goes after much more horrible things than that, like the Confederate battle flag.

All the other stuff mentioned.. brutal rape,  snuff, canibalism, is just good clean fun.

*eyes rolls*

[Phil Deakins]

22 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I agree with the majority of this, Phil.

I do not agree however that the simple act of playing out an act (be it role play, a video game or similar) is a glorification or normalization of said act.

As far as "evil" goes there are plenty of things that occur within SL that I find personally objectionable and yes the type of play mentioned by the OP is among them. I'll avoid places that cater to such things like the plague.

I probably shouldn't have quoted that part of your post, Solar, because it doesn't really apply to what I wrote. It was the sentence that brought what I wrote to mind though, which was why I quoted it. My apologies.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

I probably shouldn't have quoted that part of your post, Solar, because it doesn't really apply to what I wrote. It was the sentence that brought what I wrote to mind though.

A bit more understandable, perhaps next time preface that what you're quoting is a springboard or thought train fuel?

[AshaShanti]

It seems many here (not all at all ) like to get all hectic on a poor first time user  - like it was fun - 

I don't think that helps much in a forum - or I don't see the reason at all - but if you are into that - you are more than welcome. 

It does help to be calm and discuss things without getting to hectic - you get further in solving problems, finding solutions or understanding things better - all the points that were made were equally valid and useful for understanding the whole picture.

If I thought I am the ultimate authority on any subject I would not write on a forum. 

 

[Resi Pfeffer]

2 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

It seems many here (not all at all ) like to get all hectic on a poor first time user  - like it was fun - I don't think that helps much in a forum - or I don't see the reason at all - but if you are into that - you are more than welcome.

The unintended avalanche you caused finds its way down the hill by itself. You could easily turn away and leave.
But you should stay, because you can grow on contrary opinions and even on harsh comments. Chin up!

[Phil Deakins]

8 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

A bit more understandable, perhaps next time preface that what you're quoting is a springboard or thought train fuel?

Point taken. I'll try to remember

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

7 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

It seems many here (not all at all ) like to get all hectic on a poor first time user  - like it was fun - 

I don't think that helps much in a forum - or I don't see the reason at all - but if you are into that - you are more than welcome. 

It does help to be calm and discuss things without getting to hectic - you get further in solving problems, finding solutions or understanding things better - all the points that were made were equally valid and useful for understanding the whole picture.

If I thought I am the ultimate authority on any subject I would not write on a forum. 

 

Hectic, eh? Is this one of those 'telling calm people to calm down so that they get flustered (or hectic, if you prefer) thereby justifying the calm down injunction in the first place' things?  

oh honey

[Phil Deakins]

@AshaShanti It's understandable that you thought that Anna was telling you to go away from the forum when I'm certain she meant go away from the place/group. Sometimes we would like an individual to go away from the forum, but we don't tell them to. It's not our forum so we can't do that here. If we did, SuperTom or one of the super-elves would soon put us in our place

Edited November 15, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[Klytyna]

6 minutes ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

Hectic, eh? Is this one of those 'telling calm people to calm down so that they get flustered (or hectic, if you prefer) thereby justifying the calm down injunction in the first place' things? 

oh honey

Standard tactics of the Self Rightious Suburban Fascist Committee for Community Dictatorship...

You spout some crap about a "serious problem that all right thinking people will join your action group against", and when people quite rightly slap you down as some little self appointed Neighbourhood Snitch Street Dictator, you accuse them of having "anger management issues" or "not being calm".

Then you claim, fraudulently that if they were "calm and rational" they would automatically see that your plan to ban your neighbours from painting their front doors red, or requiring all unmarried people to eject visitors before 10pm at night to prevent "sordid behavior" or whatever smug crusade your are on, is the TRUTH and the WAY and should be made FEDERAL LAW immediately.

Obviously, since we don't seem to like self appointed Social Lifestyle Police Mentors, we are all irrational un-calm people...

But you know she'll thank us for our input, while completely ignoring everything we say, and pointing out that our opinions are "just one opinion" as a way of claiming that her opinion is worth more than ours...
 

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

2 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Standard tactics of the Self Rightious Suburban Fascist Committee for Community Dictatorship...

You spout some crap about a "serious problem that all right thinking people will join your action group against", and when people quite rightly slap you down as some little self appointed Neighbourhood Snitch Street Dictator, you accuse them of having "anger management issues" or "not being calm".

Then you claim, fraudulently that if they were "calm and rational" they would automatically see that your plan to ban your neighbours from painting their front doors red, or requiring all unmarried people to eject visitors before 10pm at night to prevent "sordid behavior" or whatever smug crusade your are on, is the TRUTH and the WAY and should be made FEDERAL LAW immediately.

Obviously, since we don't seem to like self appointed Social Lifestyle Police Mentors, we are all irrational un-calm people...

But you know she'll thank us for our input, while completely ignoring everything we say, and pointing out that our opinions are "just one opinion" as a way of claiming that her opinion is worth more than ours...
 

yup.

[Klytyna]

Back in the early 90's, the Conservative government in Britain, came up with a prototype plan for "policing internet content".

The plan was the usual Tory blend of low budget uselessness with Thatcher worshiping Suburban Bigot Committee nonsense.

They set up a phone line, where "concerned citizens" could report  websites that were "unsuitable for British people". Then the idea was that reported websites would be added to a "blacklist" and ISP's would be legally required to enforce this blacklist.

The plan was abandoned when the early results of the report line came in... Why?

The number one reported website for banning by the Neighbourhood Snitch Committee Street Dictators was...

The Terrence Higgins Trust - A registered charity, that helps people suffering from AIDS/HIV.

...

These self appointed little suburban dictators need to be crushed without mercy.
 

[Resi Pfeffer]

4 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

But you know she'll thank us for our input, while completely ignoring everything we say, and pointing out that our opinions are "just one opinion" as a way of claiming that her opinion is worth more than ours...

Like Phil already mentioned, everthing happens inside of our mind. And things like this may be very disturbing for some people, what i really can understand.
You should give her some time to think about what she said, the way she said it, and how the forum responded, after the first shock vanished.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

7 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

@AshaShanti It's understandable that you thought that Anna was telling you to go away from the forum when I'm certain she meant go away from the place/group. Sometimes we would like an individual to go away from the forum, but we don't tell them to. It's not our forum so we can't do that here. If we did, SuperTom or one of the super-elves would soon put us in our place

I don't read it that way, Phil. Anna said "So don't go there. Better still, go away."  "Better still, go away" seems a very strange way to say "If you're on the sim, leave." But probably best not to get caught up in that.
 

Quote

 

Everything takes place in the mind. Whether it's an actual act in RL, an imagination in RL, or a simulation in SL, it's in the RL person's mind, and that is disturbing. It could be argued that simulating it relieves the RL impulse and prevents it from happening in RL. It could also be argued that simulating it could fuel the impulse, leading to doing it in RL. The people simulating such acts may be doing it just for a laugh, or they may truly want to actually do such things. There are many realities concerning it.

On the whole, I agree with the OP that such things ought not to be allowed in SL, whether or not it's just for a laugh.

 

Masturbating pairs the very powerful reward of orgasm with the associated stimulus and that can become part of a person's psyche. I'm not comfortable with the idea that everything under the sun has to be accepted with the attitude of "it doesn't matter, it's just kink".

Maybe things are too polarised (especially in the U.S.) for further discussion to happen in a mainstream context at this time. But then the SL forums aren't exactly mainstream in all things, are they?

[Alwin Alcott]

55 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

 

whatever you say Alwin - if you wanna be right - you are more than welcome.

if you totally refuse to see things how others see it how you are open for discussion?

[AshaShanti]

Alwin, 

well I suppose we won't know exactly what that statement means unless she clarifies it

[Qa Boa]

AshaShanti,

I've been in SL for way more than ten years myself. These groups and "role play" themes have been around since 2004, at least. There used to be a lot of SL Magazines and "newspapers" way back then and I clearly recall an article about this type of thing. Though it was rather... 'disturbing' to me, that this very kind of thing could be a "thing" it also was a funny read. They interviewed the owners and creators of the place (long before most would buy a sim, so a place on Mature mainland back then, you're in SL long enough that I don't need to explain the rating Mature from back then, either).

They also interviewed a few of the "victims" and the oddest thing to me: they thought it was 'fun' to play also. When I say "funny" read, I literally mean I was chuckling. Sure, I was rolling my eyes at it all. The funny came from the fact that these "victims" who went through this process, which for all intents and purposes would be a one-time-only permanent process, would rinse and repeat.

Because the is SL and you can do that.

In the end here is where we are at (meaning this discussion; this thread; original post):

1) Moral aspect. In your OP you use the word "abuse" - how do you mean? If you mean "moral abuse" then that's a fair statement. If you mean physical abuse people will slam you and laugh. This is SL, there is no such thing as physical abuse and I'll name the same and obvious cliche response to that when the subjects of rape, kidnapping, "murder" and all the rest come up: Giant X in the upper corner to go offline if anything is that disturbing to you. As for disturbing, there is "moral abuse" all over the grid and what is disturbing to you may not be to others and vice-versa.

2) Legal aspect. Back in the beginning there even used to be open pedophilia sims and parcels that catered to that. Moral abuse? Absolutely, in my mind and to the majority of people, I would think. Linden Lab had a 100% hands-0ff policy regarding any and all content in SL because then the Gorean role players would come here, The cannibal role players would come here, the BDSM, D/S, Satanism crowds would all come here. Morally abusive themes? Perhaps. But not illegal, save for the pedophilia scenarios. This one subject alone almost ruined SL by the massively negative real-world news reports about it when it was fianlly discovered outside SL, even though it raged on for a few years. So they, LL, had to step in, change their TOS around and start babysitting the grid on legal grounds, even though the pedophile aspect, as atrocious as the very idea is to me, wasn't (based on my understanding of laws in the U.S. at least) illegal in SL - because of what SL is.

Based on those two points this group and sim scenario you bring up for discussion become a non-discussion for this reason:

• It's not against the law or Linden Lab TOS.
• You posed the majority of your post as a statement, rather than opinion.
• You did not ask for others' opinion on the subject and to weigh-in on their perspectives.

The best way to create an engaging, smart thread on subjects like this would be to:

• State your subject as an opinion of your own and make that clear.
• Ask other's to give their opinions on the subject and any other helpful input.
• Always make it clear that you understand anything you say is your purview and that you invite and respect others' purview.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Qa Boa
Typorama game-playing

[Alwin Alcott]

13 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

Alwin, 

well I suppose we won't know exactly what that statement means unless she clarifies it

don't you see you, again, don't go in discussion mode but dig yourself in your own opinion?

[Ceka Cianci]

Wonders what's under the asterisk's

[Love Zhaoying]

I came to this thread looking for drama, and was not disappointed. You guys rock!

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

1 hour ago, Qa Boa said:

So they, LL, had to step in, change their TOS around and start babysitting the grid on legal grounds, even though the pedophile aspect, as atrocious as the very idea is to me, wasn't (based on my understanding of laws in the U.S. at least) illegal in SL - because of what SL is.

Doesn't it fall under child pornography legislation?

This whole "because of what SL is/isn't" thing isn't always the escape clause people want it to be.

[Bree Giffen]

AshaShanti, welcome to the forums! Did you bring your flame resistant coveralls? It can got hot in here. Lol.  ----->hot!

[Pamela Galli]

So often we  get reports of people who somehow come across offensive behavior or situations and rather than avoiding them, they want Linden Lab to intervene and remove them.  I have been here for 10 years and have seen almost nothing offensive, not because I find nothing offensive, but because I do not go places where I see offensive things, and if I do come across them, I leave. 

[Paul Hexem]

Nothing in SL can be forced on you. Nothing.

If someone attempts to force something on you that you don't want to participate in, you have numerous tools including (but not limited to) mute, teleport, ban, and even closing the program, to avoid it. If you don't like something, don't participate.

If someone is participating and not using any of said tools, they must want to be there. If it's not against the TOS and not against the law, your one and only option is to get over it and move on.