Abusive content/group/sims in Second Life

[Derek Torvalar]

35 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

We dont get thousands of murder and rape cases a day in the US... 

~309 per day in 2016

[Drake1 Nightfire]

39 minutes ago, Derek Torvalar said:

~309 per day in 2016

Not sure where you got that number... According to this site https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/ it comes out to about 47 a day in the US for 2016. By your numbers that would be 112,785 people murdered.. Perhaps that might be the worldwide statistic.. 

[Innula Zenovka]

15 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Not sure where you got that number... According to this site https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/ it comes out to about 47 a day in the US for 2016. By your numbers that would be 112,785 people murdered.. Perhaps that might be the worldwide statistic.. 

I've just looked at the 2016 crime figures for the USA:

There were apparently 17,250 murders and 95,730 rapes reported to law enforcement in 2016 (though the number of unreported rapes was doubtless far higher).   So that's about 47 murders a day plus 262 rapes a day = 309 rapes and murders daily.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Innula Zenovka

[Drake1 Nightfire]

11 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I've just looked at the 2016 crime figures for the USA:

There were apparently 17,250 murders and 95,730 rapes reported to law enforcement in 2016 (though the number of unreported rapes was doubtless far higher).   So that's about 47 murders a day plus 262 rapes a day = 309 rapes and murders daily.

I wonder how many of those rapes were on underage people. 

[Innula Zenovka]

Crime statistics are notoriously difficult to interpret, particularly with crimes like sexual assault, which are notoriously under-reported, especially if the the victims are children.   However, I see that there is reason to believe that, between 2009--2013, 63,000 children a year were victims of some sort of sexual abuse in the USA, so that's about 172 daily.

Since a great deal of sexual abuse occurs within the family, or is committed by someone who has a close connection with the victim, I would imagine that most children who are victims of rape or other sexual abuse are victimised multiple times a year.   That's certainly the picture I've formed in the UK,  though I saw only cases where there was sufficient evidence to prosecute.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Innula Zenovka

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Since there is no similar problem with groups of cannibals, rapists and murderers meeting online to exchange images of their crimes,  that might explain LL's more lenient attitude towards them.

 

I guess cannibals could meet to exchange recipes.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

To the discussion of normalisation of things previously not tolerated we might want to add the new "normal" of raging at strangers on the internet.

[Aislin Ceawlin]

5 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I guess cannibals could meet to exchange recipes.

I saw a video about the dark web where they described a site called Cannibal Cafe that was exactly that, lol.

[Bobbie Faulds]

15 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

The ban was, as I recall, introduced after a German news programme broadcast an item about groups of paedophiles using SL to network and exchange images of children being sexually abused.   That's obviously publicity LL can do without, so that might well explain their reaction.     Since there is no similar problem with groups of cannibals, rapists and murderers meeting online to exchange images of their crimes,  that might explain LL's more lenient attitude towards them.

There's also, I think, an important distinction between people who gain sexual gratification from images of children being abused as opposed to people who enjoy watching images of other types of sexualised violence.   Material to appeal to most fantasies, no matter how depraved, is generally produced by actors and directors simulating scenes of rape, torture and whatever.   No one is harmed and no laws are broken when it is made.   

Images of child abuse, on the other hand, cannot be produced without abusing and raping children.   

Since there is, unfortunately, so huge and lucrative a market for such images,  the argument goes, it's important that we never allow the idea that using such images for entertainment ever to be normalised, and that's why even non-photographic images of children being sexually abused are banned in several jurisdictions.       A big part of the problem with the people who use images of child sexual abuse is that they don't really see there's anything wrong in simply looking at images, and don't let themselves understand that theirs is not a victimless crime because they provide the market for a large international industry based on the abuse and suffering of children to produce imagery for their enjoyment.

Such considerations don't generally apply to extreme pornography.   It's produced using actors who simulate being raped or killed.         

Actually, there is a former police officer in New York that was originally convicted because of thoughts http://nymag.com/news/features/cannibal-cop-2014-1/. From what I've read, apparently even his lawyers weren't aware of Dolcett. There's a whole set of comics done by an anonymous artist as well as many short stories on the web. 

It's not mainstream and you do have to dig a bit for it in SL. I've looked into it on an alt and interestingly, there are more female avis interested in BDSM. Dolcett is an extreme form of BDSM. Unfortunately, most I've run into have no idea how to roleplay; just jump on poseballs.

Just my 2L worth

[KanryDrago]

On 16/11/2017 at 8:46 PM, AshaShanti said:

Frankly I find it pretty sad that anyone thinks one race *****ing another is an example of race play. I have no idea what its like in america but its pretty normal hear in europe

[BilliJo Aldrin]

12 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

To the discussion of normalisation of things previously not tolerated we might want to add the new "normal" of raging at strangers on the internet.

Ummm raging at strangers started a week after Al Gore invented the internet to disseminate information about the real threat of man-made global warming

[Anna Nova]

23 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Ummm raging at strangers started a week after Al Gore invented the internet to disseminate information about the real threat of man-made global warming

Vint Cerf invented the internet to prevent government communications failing when WWW3 starts.

Tim Berners-Lee invented the World-Wide Web so that....

Al Gore could politicize it.

Edited November 18, 2017 by anna2358
typo

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 minutes ago, anna2358 said:

Vint Cerf invented the internet to prevent government communications failing when WWW3 starts.

Tim Berners-Lee invented the World-Wide Web so that....

Al Gore could politicize it.

 I know Gore didn't invent it, he just makes things up.

I'm being facetious.... about the whole thing

*waiting for the rage*

Edited November 18, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line

[Anna Nova]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

 I know Gore didn't invent it, he just makes things up.

I'm being facetious.... about the whole thing

*waiting for the rage*

Oh sh...t, and I was only trying to be funny too....

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, anna2358 said:

Vint Cerf invented the internet to prevent government communications failing when WWW3 starts.

Tim Berners-Lee invented the World-Wide Web so that....

Al Gore could politicize it.

LIES!!! FAKE NEWS/HISTORY!!!! 

We all know Al gore invented the internet while he was riding on his cloned T-rex that had lasers mounted on it's forehead. Come on now, how stupid do you think we are.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, anna2358 said:

Tim Berners-Lee invented the World-Wide Web

Actually, he came up with the hyperlink (although BT argued that they invented it much earlier), which gave rise to the web.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

On 11/15/2017 at 2:14 PM, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'm in general agreement that LL won't do anything about gore/dolcett and so it's probably best for you to gently express your disapproval for the ideology when appropriate, but not to press harder. You'll get blowback from those of us who participate in any number of behaviors frowned upon by the general public and worry that we'll be the next to go during any "moral" housecleaning.

I do hope you stick around. Though your first step into our world was perhaps a stumble, you show promise.

;-).

Maddy, you are as always a model of generosity, restraint, and common sense.

Gosh, this thread brings back such memories! It's a bit like an acid flashback. Or, you know, ghost pain in a severed limb . . .

I agree with most of what you say above, but I wonder if this need necessarily be about "disapproval"? Is it not sufficient to raise the issue because it's complicated (pace Solar, above, who says it's "simple"), interesting, and somewhat potentially problematic? Or is it simply impossible to discuss behaviour, even virtual behaviour, in a disinterested way? I myself am looooong past being "offended" by Gore, Dolcet, snuff, etc., in the sense of a personal, emotional response -- maybe as the result of a kind of desensitization? -- but the issues raised here are still intellectually interesting and do have possible social and ethical implications.

AshaShanti, I'm not here very often anymore, but I'd like to echo what Maddy says: you should stick around. And don't be afraid to ask the difficult questions. You'll get burned at first, but when people come to realize that you are, as you certainly seem to be, an open minded and reasonable person, you will be accepted. (I can speak from personal experience on this!)

[AshaShanti]

36 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Maddy, you are as always a model of generosity, restraint, and common sense.

Gosh, this thread brings back such memories! It's a bit like an acid flashback. Or, you know, ghost pain in a severed limb . . .

I agree with most of what you say above, but I wonder if this need necessarily be about "disapproval"? Is it not sufficient to raise the issue because it's complicated (pace Solar, above, who says it's "simple"), interesting, and somewhat potentially problematic? Or is it simply impossible to discuss behaviour, even virtual behaviour, in a disinterested way? I myself am looooong past being "offended" by Gore, Dolcet, snuff, etc., in the sense of a personal, emotional response -- maybe as the result of a kind of desensitization? -- but the issues raised here are still intellectually interesting and do have possible social and ethical implications.

AshaShanti, I'm not here very often anymore, but I'd like to echo what Maddy says: you should stick around. And don't be afraid to ask the difficult questions. You'll get burned at first, but when people come to realize that you are, as you certainly seem to be, an open minded and reasonable person, you will be accepted. (I can speak from personal experience on this!)

Thanks Scylla, I truly appreciate your words and everyone else's that kept the balance in this sudden heated debate - at least it was for me. 

I do think it was a very useful experience due to all the answers of everyone - there is no way one can possibly know all that there is to know about this topic - this thread was a source of lots and lots of info, angles and opinions and I hope it helped some others that have been wondering about this - to answer some questions. 

I live in South Africa - violent crime, rapes and other horrific stuff happening here on a daily basis like many of you might know - so one is forced to keep pondering these things here regularly. 

I truly had absolutely no idea about snuff and similar stuff - and now I see it is quite popular in SL - so probably most people were wondering "where has she been all these years" - well if you are not into something obviously you won't go out looking for it - so that is basically the reason - like some others also said.

Thanks again for the encouragement.

[Madelaine McMasters]

57 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I agree with most of what you say above, but I wonder if this need necessarily be about "disapproval"? Is it not sufficient to raise the issue because it's complicated (pace Solar, above, who says it's "simple"), interesting, and somewhat potentially problematic? Or is it simply impossible to discuss behaviour, even virtual behaviour, in a disinterested way? I myself am looooong past being "offended" by Gore, Dolcet, snuff, etc., in the sense of a personal, emotional response -- maybe as the result of a kind of desensitization? -- but the issues raised here are still intellectually interesting and do have possible social and ethical implications.

Oh yes, the issues raised here are very interesting to me. Like Asha, I ponder the violence of my society regularly. But you know me, I'm wishy washy. I keep my eyes and ears open for credible evidence of the effect of pretending on doing, or not doing. Not that evidence will make a difference. The people who seem to most fervently defend the right to carry weapons solely designed to kill people also try to eliminate the rights of women to control their own sexuality... because that might kill people. I find similar logical discord everywhere I look.

And don't go calling me open-minded, you don't know me! During the year that my boarder lived with me, he was "forced" to sell his Xbox, on which he sat down to play first-person-shooter games and replace it with a Wi, on which he stood up to play tennis. And that was because his "open minded" emergency backup mom delivered an ultimatum. I don't care whether violent video games promote violent behavior or not, they're not allowed in my house...

...unless you're Wile E. Coyote trying to incinerate the Roadrunner. That's hilarious.

So nice to see you again, Scylla... and you still, Asha.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, AshaShanti said:

Thanks Scylla, I truly appreciate your words and everyone else's that kept the balance in this sudden heated debate - at least it was for me. 

I do think it was a very useful experience due to all the answers of everyone - there is no way one can possibly know all that there is to know about this topic - this thread was a source of lots and lots of info, angles and opinions and I hope it helped some others that have been wondering about this - to answer some questions. 

I live in South Africa - violent crime, rapes and other horrific stuff happening here on a daily basis like many of you might know - so one is forced to keep pondering these things here regularly. 

I truly had absolutely no idea about snuff and similar stuff - and now I see it is quite popular in SL - so probably most people were wondering "where has she been all these years" - well if you are not into something obviously you won't go out looking for it - so that is basically the reason - like some others also said.

Thanks again for the encouragement.

I first started posting here -- well, not "here," technically, but in the ancient General Discussion forums about 9(?) years ago -- on this very subject. It did not go well.  That was in part probably because I was not, initially at least, as "open minded and reasonable" as you on the subject. I was here to make a point and there was, somewhat unsurprisingly in hindsight, some very vocal resentment about my lecturing at people.

But, as they say these days, I persevered. And in the process, I learned an awful lot -- not from the dismissive or angry ones who quoted the TOS at me, or deliberately misread my comments to score points, but from those who sensed that, somewhere buried beneath the apparently uptight feminist polemicist, there was someone who was actually interested in learning and listening.

So I made slowly made friends with many people who, bizarrely enough, disagreed with me -- including more than one Dom, a couple of Goreans, and more than a few *ack* Republicans. They helped me see their perspective, and understand the issues much more broadly. And, I flatter myself, I did the same for them. The experience of talking these issues out over several years both here and in-world did not change my overall view -- I remain a bleeding heart progressive and unrepentant feminist -- but it did educate me and make my understanding of the issues much more nuanced and (I hope) generous and open than they had been.

So, when I created an in-world exhibit on depictions of sexual violence in Second Life, I tried not to use it to harangue or scold. I wanted it to educate residents who, like yourself, didn't really know the range of this kind of material available, but I also wanted to ask a question (which also in part formed the title of my exhibit) of those who engaged in role play of extreme sexual violence: Why does this turn you on? I don't know that I ever got a completely straight answer to that, but the point was not to yell "J'accuse!," but rather to enjoin dialogue and discussion. (Not everyone thought that's what I was doing, however).

Anyway, enough. 

Most people, I firmly believe, are pretty nice and welcoming. I hope you find these, and have a smoother and happier entry into the community here than I did. But even if you don't, if you persevere, they will find you. I have never regretted entering this community, even when things got "hot," and I know you won't either.

PS. Watch out for that Madelaine McMasters person, and her evil henchperson, Snugs. They're both insidiously and dangerously kind and funny. And if they ever send you a TP in-world, DON'T ACCEPT IT!!!!! You'll get burned for certain. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, when I created an in-world exhibit on depictions of sexual violence in Second Life, I tried not to use it to harangue or scold.

Thankfully, you used it to deliver one of the most wonderful moments I've had in SL. I hope you'll forgive that the exhibit itself, thoughtful as it was, ranks slightly behind the unintended consequence of that night. If you scroll down a bit in Nyll Bergbahn's "Landing Point Disasters" page, you'll find my recollection of your remarkable event...

 

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

PS. Watch out for that Madelaine McMasters person, and her evil henchperson, Snugs. They're both insidious and dangerous. And if they ever send you a TP in-world, DON'T ACCEPT IT!!!!! You'll get burned for certain. 

In light of my recollection, your warning to Asha seems downright Machiavellian.

As always, you put a huge grin on my face, Scylla.

 

 

ETA: I also linked that story in this thread...

Ain't it nice to know people are still crushin' on ya?

Edited November 19, 2017 by Madelaine McMasters

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Thankfully, you used it to deliver one of the most wonderful moments I've had in SL. I hope you'll forgive that the exhibit itself, thoughtful as it was, ranks slightly behind the unintended consequence of that night. If you scroll down a bit in Nyll Bergbahn's "Landing Point Disasters" page, you'll find my recollection of your remarkable event...

Oh dear god. Where's the "facepalm" emoji when I need it? (Actually, seriously, where is the "facepalm" emoji???? It would be so useful!!)
 

It's typical that I managed to master at a minimum level of competence so many things in SL, but was continually defeated by the simplest things. And, invariably of course, at the worst possible times. I'm sure you must have many other embarrassing memories of me: I committed more than a few idiocies here in my time. It is actually generous of you to offer them as a shared giggle, rather than hold them over my head as decent blackmail material.

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

As always, you put a huge grin on my face, Scylla.

Then my work here is done!

/me wipes her hands with self-satisfaction, and turns to make a dramatic exit, walking into a glass door in the process.

4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Ain't it nice to know people are still crushin' on ya?

Yeah, but only the ones who don't actually know me!

Really, I'm only going to be remembered as the incompetent who sent a small gathering of earnest do-gooders and SJWs plummeting to their deaths from a height of 600 metres.

And I'm good with that, actually. 

[AshaShanti]

23 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I first started posting here -- well, not "here," technically, but in the ancient General Discussion forums about 9(?) years ago -- on this very subject. It did not go well.  That was in part probably because I was not, initially at least, as "open minded and reasonable" as you on the subject. I was here to make a point and there was, somewhat unsurprisingly in hindsight, some very vocal resentment about my lecturing at people.

You make me sound much better ( "open minded and reasonable")  than what I think I was when I wrote my initial post - basically I was in a state of panic - discovering this kink almost paralysed me in a sense - if I try to describe - because the tools used on this sim - was similar to - how my mom decided to take her own life ( hope this makes sense - I won't go into details here). So my post was almost like a cry for help that day without consideration of wording whatsoever. Posting on a forum that day was very likely not a good idea. However after the initial shocks I spent time discussing this issue with friends and family in SL and RL and slowly things were calm again. I explain this just to show my specific experience as an example - very likely every single person would respond to this differently.

 

But, as they say these days, I persevered. And in the process, I learned an awful lot -- not from the dismissive or angry ones who quoted the TOS at me, or deliberately misread my comments to score points, but from those who sensed that, somewhere buried beneath the apparently uptight feminist polemicist, there was someone who was actually interested in learning and listening.

Yes very similar experience for me - usually when I don't get something I make a sort of plan - almost like a task list in my head - to examine the topic - do some research and then consult people from as many angles as possible - so I did that in this case also - many different angles - to try and see what is actually going on. Usually I do sound calm and collected lol - based on what my friends say - I don't seem to see getting too heated as an option in these situations - may be this will change later hm. 

So I made slowly made friends with many people who, bizarrely enough, disagreed with me -- including more than one Dom, a couple of Goreans, and more than a few *ack* Republicans. They helped me see their perspective, and understand the issues much more broadly. And, I flatter myself, I did the same for them. The experience of talking these issues out over several years both here and in-world did not change my overall view -- I remain a bleeding heart progressive and unrepentant feminist -- but it did educate me and make my understanding of the issues much more nuanced and (I hope) generous and open than they had been.

Great to hear your story.

So, when I created an in-world exhibit on depictions of sexual violence in Second Life, I tried not to use it to harangue or scold. I wanted it to educate residents who, like yourself, didn't really know the range of this kind of material available, but I also wanted to ask a question (which also in part formed the title of my exhibit) of those who engaged in role play of extreme sexual violence: Why does this turn you on? I don't know that I ever got a completely straight answer to that, but the point was not to yell "J'accuse!," but rather to enjoin dialogue and discussion. (Not everyone thought that's what I was doing, however).

I have lots of friends that are exploring bdsm and many times they took me to talks, lectures, discussions of all sorts, I loved the fact that these talks are available to people and they can discuss stuff - there is a forum for them to share experiences. However I left quick because I don't find it interesting so I moved on to other stuff - I am always busy with 3-4 projects in the same time.

Just to give a little background - I was born in Hungary - raised in an environment where we were all encouraged to learn various languages and explored cultures of the world. I became interested in Arabic and African cultures - so I majored in Arabic and English at uni - and moved to Tunis (North Africa) for a while. Later I decided to move to Sub Saharan Africa and start a non profit project - which involved turning my home into an open source internet cafe - the idea was to teach basic pc skills to locals from all backgrounds, colors, tribes, ages, etc. My idea was not only to help people learn basics on the pc and internet ( which I learned while living in the African savanna for 2 years ) - but also for me to learn how different people thought about stuff - what they needed to make sure they picked up these skills easily. The cafe was small but was quite a success - people from all over South Africa came - and later from other parts of Africa, Europe, US and even Asia. A big learning curve about the world.

In 2008 I started out my virtual life with recreating my RL non-profit project in SL on the non-profit commons -  then I started a building school that was teaching about different cultures of the world by creating African drums, Senegalese tea sets, Indian bindis etc. and the projects carried on and on till today. 

Anyway, enough

 

 

23 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Anyway, enough. Thanks it is great you decided to write about it. 

Most people, I firmly believe, are pretty nice and welcoming. I hope you find these, and have a smoother and happier entry into the community here than I did. But even if you don't, if you persevere, they will find you. I have never regretted entering this community, even when things got "hot," and I know you won't either.

Thanks yes people are great here and those that got upset - looking back - I get their point - all people need is one more winy person lecturing about stuff. In my defence I was in panic mode.

PS. Watch out for that Madelaine McMasters person, and her evil henchperson, Snugs. They're both insidiously and dangerously kind and funny. And if they ever send you a TP in-world, DON'T ACCEPT IT!!!!! You'll get burned for certain. 

Madelaine McMasters you say? Ok will definitely watch out - may be I create a Madelaine alert HUD of sorts ..... 

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

14 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

You make me sound much better ( "open minded and reasonable")  than what I think I was when I wrote my initial post - basically I was in a state of panic - discovering this kink almost paralysed me in a sense - if I try to describe - because the tools used on this sim - was similar to - how my mom decided to take her own life ( hope this makes sense - I won't go into details here). So my post was almost like a cry for help that day without consideration of wording whatsoever. Posting on a forum that day was very likely not a good idea. However after the initial shocks I spent time discussing this issue with friends and family in SL and RL and slowly things were calm again. I explain this just to show my specific experience as an example - very likely every single person would respond to this differently.

I've written and spoken a fair bit in my time about representations of sexual violence in SL, but I'll admit I've never thought of this particular issue before. Trigger warnings for extreme content are pretty important, and not infrequently used, but that's usually with people who are themselves victims of violence in mind. When I was in my 20s, a good friend of mine killed himself in a particularly nasty way. It was at least a year before I could watch a movie with anything like graphic violence in it without feeling physically ill, so I get where your panic was coming from. I'm so very sorry you experienced that!

19 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

Yes very similar experience for me - usually when I don't get something I make a sort of plan - almost like a task list in my head - to examine the topic - do some research and then consult people from as many angles as possible - so I did that in this case also - many different angles - to try and see what is actually going on. Usually I do sound calm and collected lol - based on what my friends say - I don't seem to see getting too heated as an option in these situations - may be this will change later hm.

I think that forums and bulletin boards -- and sometimes even simple social media platforms -- can encourage a certain kind of aggressiveness, particularly where there is a strong sense of "community" or "coterie" that seems to license aggressive behaviour. There were times when I frequented this place, a number of years ago, when it was largely unpoliced by mods, and could get very nasty, especially to newcomers. In such cases, it doesn't matter how calm and collected you are: until you are seen as a "participant" or even "member," rather than as an interloper: there's a likelihood that a few, at least, will take issue to your entrance upon the scene. So don't blame yourself: I thought you sounded very calm and reasoned.

24 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

In 2008 I started out my virtual life with recreating my RL non-profit project in SL on the non-profit commons -  then I started a building school that was teaching about different cultures of the world by creating African drums, Senegalese tea sets, Indian bindis etc. and the projects carried on and on till today. 

This is very cool (as is the rest of your story)! I was working with a few inline NPGs like Amnesty International Online and Four Bridges Project at about that time and after. I wonder if we had overlapping circles of friends and colleagues?

28 minutes ago, AshaShanti said:

Madelaine McMasters you say? Ok will definitely watch out - may be I create a Madelaine alert HUD of sorts ..... 

And if she invites you to join her Top Secret Society, "The Ladies Who Lunch," be especially wary! They were responsible for all sorts of mischief, including the Kennedy assassination, the faked moon landings, 9/11, and Donald Trump. 

[AshaShanti]

32 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I've written and spoken a fair bit in my time about representations of sexual violence in SL, but I'll admit I've never thought of this particular issue before. Trigger warnings for extreme content are pretty important, and not infrequently used, but that's usually with people who are themselves victims of violence in mind. When I was in my 20s, a good friend of mine killed himself in a particularly nasty way. It was at least a year before I could watch a movie with anything like graphic violence in it without feeling physically ill, so I get where your panic was coming from. I'm so very sorry you experienced that!

Life can get so hectic - and these events seem to determine in some ways the rest of our lives, sometimes positively sometimes negatively. May be I set out on my little world journey - to understand people and the world better - and ultimately to understand the reasons for losing my mom. So sorry to hear about your friend Scylla - this is no joke - and stuff like this needs to be taken seriously - the biggest problem is that often people don't feel ok to talk about it - so it stays bottled up inside. We all go through hectic stuff - I don't see no reason to keep it a secret - life has lots good stuff but then there is others sides that are just as part of life as anything else. 

I think that forums and bulletin boards -- and sometimes even simple social media platforms -- can encourage a certain kind of aggressiveness, particularly where there is a strong sense of "community" or "coterie" that seems to license aggressive behaviour. There were times when I frequented this place, a number of years ago, when it was largely unpoliced by mods, and could get very nasty, especially to newcomers. In such cases, it doesn't matter how calm and collected you are: until you are seen as a "participant" or even "member," rather than as an interloper: there's a likelihood that a few, at least, will take issue to your entrance upon the scene. So don't blame yourself: I thought you sounded very calm and reasoned.

True - this is how forums are - it sure sounds great when someone does take the effort to welcome the other and explain some basics and stuff - I appreciated that

This is very cool (as is the rest of your story)! I was working with a few inline NPGs like Amnesty International Online and Four Bridges Project at about that time and after. I wonder if we had overlapping circles of friends and colleagues?

Very likely my main avi is called szavanna - does that ring a bell? I used to spend lots time with Medora, Junivers Stockholm, and many many others - I am sure you know them too. 

And if she invites you to join her Top Secret Society, "The Ladies Who Lunch," be especially wary! They were responsible for all sorts of mischief, including the Kennedy assassination, the faked moon landings, 9/11, and Donald Trump. 

Hmm Ladies who lunch - sounds like a very peaceful sort of group - who would have thought ....- I will probably look at lunching ladies very differently from now on.

( Quickly adding a Lunching lady alert to my Madelaine alert HUD. )

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by AshaShanti