Security Orb Creators and Owners

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

9 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You forgot "Repeat Yourself".

And "Say the Same Thing Over and Over."

And "Be Redundant."

Those three things apply to both sides of the argument. 

There's always work for the Department of Redundancy Department.  🙄

[Kyrah Abattoir]

17 minutes ago, animats said:

When the avatar hits first, and it's not allowed in, it gets ejected from the vehicle. If you're in an aircraft, you fall to the ground. This sucks. That's what usually leaves aircraft stuck in midair. The owner can't find their vehicle, up there somewhere, maybe out of draw range.

And this is why allowing objects/avatars + a fast autoreturn is the best solution

[Rolig Loon]

I haven't spent a lot of time worrying about ban lines from a flyer's perspective, but I wonder why aircraft scripters don't supply a warning device that can tell pilots when they are approaching a restricted area.  It's fairly easy to build one.  I've scripted drones that look ahead and ask
 

if ( llGetParcelFlags ( llGetPos()  + <50.0,0.0,0.0> * llGetRot() ) & ( PARCEL_FLAG_USE_ACCESS_LIST  || PARCEL_FLAG_USE_GROUP ) )
{
    //Go somewhere else
}

You can also check to see whether other parcel flags are set, like PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_SCRIPTS.   That only works if you are in the same region, but it's a helpful tool when you are.

[Selene Gregoire]

Sometimes, as what happened with my own homestead (M), you have no choice but to restrict access because people would keep parking their nude avs on the landing point, never answering IMs or making nuisances of themselves invading the homes of the people who helped to pay the tier and you can't be online 24/7 to deal with it.

What's that? Hire a manager you say? When I needed tenants to help pay for the region in the first place and their rent didn't cover the tier because not only am I a nice person, I wanted to pay my part as well, rather than sticking it to my tenants? Fact is, one of my tenants was my manager. Neither of us could be on 24/7.

My point is, sometimes there are circumstances that require "drastic" measures. I'd rather not wait until something happens that requires "drastic measures". I much prefer to "nip it in the bud". Better to be safe than sorry. 

[Amina Sopwith]

Well, from what I gather, ban lines are unsightly and can wreck a vehicle, so orbs are probably better. If all you want is to keep people off your property, without penalising those who have blundered in accidentally and have no intention of staying or doing any harm, then I don't see why you wouldn't give them some warning and move them off your property without inconveniencing them any more than you have to. Booting them all the way home doesn't seem necessary.

Obviously the amount of warning to give is a bit arbitrary. If your land is in a place that is sufficiently unsigned and/or difficult to navigate that people can easily fly, sail or drive in without intending to, then it's decent to err on the side of caution and give them a few extra seconds to get out. I can see why you'd want to restrict this if you're having griefing problems but the consensus seems to be that this isn't really the major issue.

If, of course, you just like being an arse to people because it's your land and you can (and we know from past threads that this is how some people do it) then the rules allow it, not much we can really do, but own your motives. 

[animats]

21 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I haven't spent a lot of time worrying about ban lines from a flyer's perspective, but I wonder why aircraft scripters don't supply a warning device that can tell pilots when they are approaching a restricted area.

I tried something like that. There's a bug in the permission bits.

[Rolig Loon]

Well, darn.  Thanks for pointing to that JIRA.  I hadn't seen that one. It looks like an easy enough bug to fix.

[Female Winslet]

Here's something that even the benevolent, giving "me me me" people might be able to agree is a problem posed by orbs and such. I just had an orb make it very difficult to keep my little structure out of the neighbor's property. What's that, you say? Here it is:

 

What is this? I am rebuilding the dock at one of my water properties. I bought a modular dock system and I needed to rez all the pieces so I could see what they were and plan the new dock. What I do when I need to do something like that is I build a simple sky platform made of simple rectangular prims and I used that area for rezzing items and planning out the construction. I can build the dock (or whatever else) in the sky and avoid afflicting my neighbor (and me!) with an eyesore construction site while I'm in the process. The sky platform itself is built at an altitude of around 2000 meters so that it doesn't affect anyone's view from the ground level.

Well, when I do this, I try to keep it out of my neighbor's boundaries or any protected space. But I'm at 2000 meters. The parcel boundaries do not show when you are that high. And the display on the mini-map isn't exactly precise (in fact it really doesn't show me much of anything useful for that purpose). So I do it by walking around and looking at the top of my screen for the parcel name changes. That tells me I've reached the boundary line and tells me where to adjust the platform boundary. 

Well, I have a new neighbor who decided to install a nearly no warning security orb. So you can guess what happened when I checked to make sure the parts of this platform were staying outside of their land. Yes, I kept getting hit by the orb wanting me to send me back home. It made keeping my little construction platform out of their land @#$!$#@$ difficult. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

50 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

But I'm at 2000 meters. The parcel boundaries do not show when you are that high.

Not arguing that the orb setting was ridiculous.  However, to the quoted part - if you use Firestorm, on the 'Firestorm / Build 2' tab, you can get it to show you the boundaries of your parcel even at 2000 meters (all the way to 4096, actually):

[BlackBlade Smit]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Not arguing that the orb setting was ridiculous.  However, to the quoted part - if you use Firestorm, on the 'Firestorm / Build 2' tab, you can get it to show you the boundaries of your parcel even at 2000 meters (all the way to 4096, actually):

 

I don't understand, then, because I turned mine on, then this was taken. I don't see the lines,. The area with the dark prims is a crude mapping I've done of the road parcel through our land (since it auto returns) and I don't see any kind of marking here. I do see it on the ground, and have for quite some time. That setting seemed to do absolutely nothing, unless I'm doing it wrong? Pic for understanding sake:

[MoiraKathleen]

10 minutes ago, BlackBlade Smit said:

I don't understand, then, because I turned mine on, then this was taken. I don't see the lines,. The area with the dark prims is a crude mapping I've done of the road parcel through our land (since it auto returns) and I don't see any kind of marking here. I do see it on the ground, and have for quite some time. That setting seemed to do absolutely nothing, unless I'm doing it wrong? Pic for understanding sake:

It refers to the yellow semi-translucent lines that show up around your parcel when you either bring up the "About Land" window or you select something for editing.  So try doing one of those two things with that box checked.  

[BlackBlade Smit]

3 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

It refers to the yellow semi-translucent lines that show up around your parcel when you either bring up the "About Land" window or you select something for editing.  So try doing one of those two things with that box checked.  

Oh, ok. See, i have mine set to show parcel lines all the time, lol. I always forget others get those with about land. That stinks. Wish there was a setting to keep them up. The moment I select a prim or something, it vanishes. Thank you, though! You're awesome!

[MoiraKathleen]

Just now, BlackBlade Smit said:

Oh, ok. See, i have mine set to show parcel lines all the time, lol. I always forget others get those with about land. That stinks. Wish there was a setting to keep them up. The moment I select a prim or something, it vanishes. Thank you, though! You're awesome!

These are not the same parcel lines that you get with World -> Show More -> Property Lines. 

If you select an item and click "edit" on the item, the parcel boundary lines should re-appear while you're editing the item.  At least that's how it's been working for me. 

[Qie Niangao]

Why not just build a template of the parcel extents on the ground level, link it all together, and edit it up to sky height as a build platform? (Doesn't everybody just do this automatically? what am I missing here?)

[MoiraKathleen]

For sky platforms I generally do build it on the ground first, then send it up to whatever height I've chosen.  Usually I just make it the largest single rectangle shape that fits within the parcel lines - I hadn't thought about adding additional pieces for the odd shaped edges and then linking that all together. I'm going to remember that for in the future.

I generally use the parcel boundaries extended up all the way when I want to be able to see if something like trees or shrubbery have any parts that extend out of the parcel boundary.

[Female Winslet]

The SL Newser wrote about the mainland obelisks (and, by extension the ban line/orb problem) today. 

https://slnewser.blogspot.com/2019/04/good-neighbor-commandments-obelisks-on.html

20 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Not arguing that the orb setting was ridiculous.  However, to the quoted part - if you use Firestorm, on the 'Firestorm / Build 2' tab, you can get it to show you the boundaries of your parcel even at 2000 meters (all the way to 4096, actually):

Didn't know the setting was there! Thanks! I will give it a shot!

4 hours ago, moirakathleen said:

For sky platforms I generally do build it on the ground first, then send it up to whatever height I've chosen.  Usually I just make it the largest single rectangle shape that fits within the parcel lines - I hadn't thought about adding additional pieces for the odd shaped edges and then linking that all together. I'm going to remember that for in the future.

I find that doing this doesn't work out well. I build the platform and end up with all the stuff on the ground--and even the ground itself, since most of mine is not just flat ground--in the way. Also, my parcels aren't nice neat squares. This particular one is a triangle. I have far more complex shapes as well with mountains, water, stuff on the ground, voids in the middle of my parcel where a neighbor owns theirs, and so on.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Female Winslet
Fixed the URL

[clivesteel]

Makes me sick to my stomach to agree with the OP (I remember him well from Goguen Sandbox...a 'virtuous griefer', the worst of ALL possible worlds...)  but he is right. Security orbs MUST be banned if SL is going to even attempt to claw its way back to relevance...

(But in this current hypnagogic game of 'huh huh huh duh, let's play dress up dolly', does anyone even CARE about 'relevance' or meaning anymore...?)

They are griefing tools, plain and simple.The fact that the owners (griefers) pay LL monthly for the privilege of activating them shouldn't delay their permabans from SL for violation of TOS...at least sandbox griefers with pee-pee guns don't claim such risible victimhood...

Edited April 11, 2019 by clivesteel

[Selene Gregoire]

[Blush Bravin]

[LittleMe Jewell]

Clive.......... where ya been?  Back to make us all laugh, groan and roll our eyes, I see. 

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, clivesteel said:

 the OP (I remember him well

nostalgia in a three year old thread

(It's so SL, I can dig it.)

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/15/2016 at 1:37 PM, Slee Mayo said:

I'm sure the majority of grid explorers will agree with this thread, security orbs are a nuisance for those that explore the grid via vehicles(plane, helicopter, balloon, etc). When trying to get from point A to point B, everyone encounters a paranoid security orb owner's parcel which ruins their exploration of the grid by teleporting the agent home.


For security orb creators:

Why not add a feature to check the agent that enters the parcel to see if they're sitting, if they're sitting, assume they're exploring the grid via a vehicle, give them at least 30-60 seconds to pass through the parcel.
example:

if(llGetAgentInfo(AGENT_KEY) & AGENT_ON_OBJECT)
{
    EjectExplorerTimer(60);
}else{
    EjectAgentBecauseImParanoid(5);    
}

For security orb owners:

For those security orb owners that give an agent 30-60 seconds to vacate the parcel, thank you, that gives explorers(particularly hot air balloons that move slow) plenty of time to pass through.

If you're so paranoid of agents entering your parcel(those that have their orb set from 1-10 seconds), use an allow list, save the server the script memory/time and explorers the hassle of having their expedition ruined by your paranoia, at least this way explorers can work their way around Paranoiaville(ban lines) without getting teleported home.


Also, IM the creator of your security orb creator and ask them to add a 'grid explorer' feature to give those 'sitting' a few extra seconds to passthrough.


Thanks


PS
I hate ban lines as well, but at least you can work your way around them.

</rant>

That's a great idea. I don't know if the assumption of "sitting" would be valid every time, but mainly it would be.

Another thing I wish those with waterfront land would do is to take a strip of land of 32 m, or even 16 m, and make it a separate parcel, and leave that strip open, if you put "access only" with a list or group that creates ban lines for others. There's a property with group-only that has made boating down the river on the Hidden Lakes sims completely impassible. Or set your orb so that it doesn't reach right to the waterside. In general, the Lindens could make waterways with easements that would be impossible to block. What's amazing is that in this same area, the Lindens have entire parcels they left as Linden land along the banks but right at the waterside, it's impassible because there just isn't enough room. I asked them to push down their own land to make it water to get around these blockages but they wouldn't do that -- they have a principle of never changing Linden land or the tickets would be endless. 

As for the "I can do WTF on my land" mantra, the point is, you live in a shared world, and without any loss of your own privacy, you could make it so that people could boat or fly without ban lines.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Prokofy Neva

[Sister Nova]

On 4/11/2019 at 2:05 AM, Female Winslet said:

Here's something that even the benevolent, giving "me me me" people might be able to agree is a problem posed by orbs and such. I just had an orb make it very difficult to keep my little structure out of the neighbor's property. What's that, you say? Here it is:

 

What is this? I am rebuilding the dock at one of my water properties. I bought a modular dock system and I needed to rez all the pieces so I could see what they were and plan the new dock. What I do when I need to do something like that is I build a simple sky platform made of simple rectangular prims and I used that area for rezzing items and planning out the construction. I can build the dock (or whatever else) in the sky and avoid afflicting my neighbor (and me!) with an eyesore construction site while I'm in the process. The sky platform itself is built at an altitude of around 2000 meters so that it doesn't affect anyone's view from the ground level.

Well, when I do this, I try to keep it out of my neighbor's boundaries or any protected space. But I'm at 2000 meters. The parcel boundaries do not show when you are that high. And the display on the mini-map isn't exactly precise (in fact it really doesn't show me much of anything useful for that purpose). So I do it by walking around and looking at the top of my screen for the parcel name changes. That tells me I've reached the boundary line and tells me where to adjust the platform boundary. 

Well, I have a new neighbor who decided to install a nearly no warning security orb. So you can guess what happened when I checked to make sure the parts of this platform were staying outside of their land. Yes, I kept getting hit by the orb wanting me to send me back home. It made keeping my little construction platform out of their land @#$!$#@$ difficult. 

I also do this building in the sky. As I don't have a parcel border tool, I find the best way to know where the parcel boundaries are is to make the prim platform on the ground in the shape of the parcel and then just edit it to 2000m altitude.

[Blush Bravin]

Blush has a parcel border tool and I use it all the time. But I hadn't bought one for Debi so I just kept dropping prims on the ground and filling the space until it was fully covered and then changed the Z to whatever height I wanted in the sky. This got old and after remembering just how cheap that border tool is .. I decided enough of this and bought her one too. It really is worth the money to buy it.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Female Winslet]

On 4/12/2019 at 9:05 AM, Blush Bravin said:

Blush has a parcel border tool and I use it all the time. But I hadn't bought one for Debi so I just kept dropping prims on the ground and filling the space until it was fully covered and then changed the Z to whatever height I wanted in the sky. This got old and after remembering just how cheap that border tool is .. I decided enough of this and bought her one too. It really is worth the money to buy it.

If I follow your rationale about the security orbs, I believe my response should be that I get to do whatever I want on my land and my neighbors cannot and should not force me to buy anything.

As it happens, that's not far from how I feel. If you want your parcel boarders respected, I'm happy to do that. But don't interfere with me respecting them.