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Slee Mayo

Security Orb Creators and Owners

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I'm sure the majority of grid explorers will agree with this thread, security orbs are a nuisance for those that explore the grid via vehicles(plane, helicopter, balloon, etc). When trying to get from point A to point B, everyone encounters a paranoid security orb owner's parcel which ruins their exploration of the grid by teleporting the agent home.


For security orb creators:

Why not add a feature to check the agent that enters the parcel to see if they're sitting, if they're sitting, assume they're exploring the grid via a vehicle, give them at least 30-60 seconds to pass through the parcel.
example:

if(llGetAgentInfo(AGENT_KEY) & AGENT_ON_OBJECT)
{
    EjectExplorerTimer(60);
}else{
    EjectAgentBecauseImParanoid(5);    
}

For security orb owners:

For those security orb owners that give an agent 30-60 seconds to vacate the parcel, thank you, that gives explorers(particularly hot air balloons that move slow) plenty of time to pass through.

If you're so paranoid of agents entering your parcel(those that have their orb set from 1-10 seconds), use an allow list, save the server the script memory/time and explorers the hassle of having their expedition ruined by your paranoia, at least this way explorers can work their way around Paranoiaville(ban lines) without getting teleported home.


Also, IM the creator of your security orb creator and ask them to add a 'grid explorer' feature to give those 'sitting' a few extra seconds to passthrough.


Thanks


PS
I hate ban lines as well, but at least you can work your way around them.

</rant>

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oh god... not again....

 

when you own the land you can do what you want even rezz it full with pink mushrooms or black snowballs ... but also ban and keep out every other avatar that claims the use of the resourses the owner pays for.

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If the avatar is sitting they may be sitting on furniture or a bed not just a vehicle. 

Alwin is right, a land owner is not required to give you leave to "explore the grid" on their property.  They wouldn't have a security orb if that was OK by them.

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Easy enough...

 

// if agent is sitting & agent velocity is greater than 0, they're moving, not sitting on your couch

if(llGetAgentInfo(AGENT_KEY) & AGENT_ON_OBJECT)
{
     list agent_info = llGetObjectDetails(AGENT_KEY, ([OBJECT_VELOCITY]));
     if(llList2Integer(agent_info, 0) > 0)
     {
         EjectExplorerTimer(60);
     }else{
         EjectAgentBecauseImParanoid(5);
     }
}

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Well, instead of thinking of it as ruining your explorations, consider yourself as a true explorer, mapping out the passable areas of travel across a new territory.  :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

 

I think one way to irritate people who own land, and currently allow access, is to act as if you have some type of entitlement to travel over their parcels.  Have some appreciation for all the parcels you *can* travel over/through. 

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:)

"..a paranoid security orb owner's parcel " and "... EjectAgentBecauseImParanoid(5);" sums it all up. Way to make a reasoned case.

Besides, 5 seconds is far too long.

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Really, this should be limited to a Mainland discussion because there's rarely anything to explore on an Estate that isn't clearly marked as the thing to explore, and nothing at all on purely residential Estate sims. (And to be fair, we really shouldn't be expecting Estate folks to understand what exploring the grid is even about.)

So, speaking only of Mainland: Yeah, but the orbs are actually less aggravating than banlines for vehicle travel. Both cause a crazily disruptive effect when stumbled-into (which is eventually unavoidable, given enough sim crossings), but at least it's possible for an orb to be set with sensible escape intervals. (Oh, and: as others have pointed out, sitting really doesn't add much information about whether such an interval is needed.)

Also, modern security orbs have settings that disable themselves altogether when there's nobody on the parcel in the authorized user list. There's still plenty of old junk on the Marketplace that don't have that setting, and it's not required, but it's a nice way for a Mainland landowner to show that they aren't a complete loony about their pixels getting abused while they're not in-world.

[ETA: OBJECT_VELOCITY won't help, by the way, in the case of NPVs. It would be possible to calculate a kinematic "velocity" given a position trace, but still, why bother? The ones who will set a reasonable interval will do so without getting paranoid about whether the target is stationary.]

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I live in a skybox at max height.

It is surround by a 28x28x28m solid mesh cube with an opaque texture.

In the center of it I have a security orb. Set to 0 warning, teleport home.

 

- What business does anyone have being inside of that cube unless I've invited them in there?

 

I perfectly get complaints about orbs below 500m that are in 'open air' (not behind walls). And even more orbs that pass over linden roads and water routes (where the road or water partly goes into private land - only a few such roads exist in SL, but water like that is the norm).

But if your orb is behind a blocked pathway - a wall or solid object... I have ZERO sympathy for people who complain about it.

What bothers me with these threads is they generalize too much... lumping all use cases of orbs together and not seeing that there are good and bad use cases for them. Well mannered and ill mannered use cases...

Under current policy, any use case is actually a valid use case: even if its extremely rude. I do find this flawed... But I also object to the generalized objectons to orbs that fail to distinguish good or bad use cases.

 

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CassieMaia wrote:

Well, instead of thinking of it as ruining your explorations, consider yourself as a true explorer, mapping out the passable areas of travel across a new territory.  :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

 

I think one way to irritate people who own land, and currently allow access, is to act as if you have some type of entitlement to travel over their parcels.  Have some appreciation for all the parcels you *can* travel over/through. 

One thing I've thought of would be a kind of transponder system where security orbs would ping out their locations at intervals for use by a receiver in the vehicle so that the vehicle could avoid the area altogether instead of the vehicle blundering into the secure area.

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There are plenty of ways orb owners and creators can make orbs less of a nuisance, some of which are discussed in this thread.

However... If the orb owners who are a nuisance actually cared about not being a nuisance, this wouldn't even be an issue. It is already easy enough to keep your orb off when you're not there and  to set the warning to a reasonable level, and many orb owners do this. The orb owners who are the problem are not a problem because the technology doesn't exist to do things better. They are a problem because they simply don't care that they're a nuisance. So they wouldn't bother to get the orbs that have these non-nuisancing features.

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I will not comment one way or another on the use of security in Second Life. I can see the merit of both sides. I will say this, however: I no longer "explore" Second Life by foot/flight/etc. It's simply not a fun experience for me, due almost entirely to the security systems in place. 

However, my contentment with exploring does not trump your right to security. 

Do you, Boo. I'll do me. 

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To check if the users is sitting is not the good way and not recommended (by me) for a security orb.

A timer can be set to 60 seconds for all without any security problem if the scripter thinking about it.

 

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I generally explore mainland via roads, trains or waterways.  If I see an interesting build, I may head across parcel to get a closer look.  I honestly can't remember though the last time that I was automatically 'sent home' by a security orb.  At ground level, I have found that I am more likely to run into ban lines than security orbs, but even ban lines are not that common in areas where I've been.    

The one type of parcel where I have generally encountered security orbs (though with a 30 second or so warning) have been parcels (ususally sims) owned by the large 'sky platform/dome' rental companies (there are two that I recall as most likely).  Those parcels though generally show up on the mini-map with their logos covering the parcel or sim, so those are easy to spot and avoid. 

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The last time I hit a banline at slow speed my boat bounced right up the side and across the top of it.

I wish it did that everytime!

Maybe a clever scripter could make a vehicle detect banlines and do that reliably?

People using fast eject orbs and banlines at ground level around waterways and roads are devaluing their own property and those of their neighbours on the same route. Linden Lab should think about changing the covenant for parcels in locations like that, but until they do the owners are entitled to do so, even if they hurt themselves and their neighbours.

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Aethelwine wrote:

Maybe a clever scripter could make a vehicle detect banlines and do that reliably?

It's a good idea and It's possible, so i think some scripters already worked on this.

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Ilithios Liebknecht wrote:

...

However... If the orb owners who are a nuisance actually cared about not being a nuisance...

Calling people names because they choose to exercise the rights LL gives them AND that they pay for, not you, is not going to sway them to your way of thinking. But you have a history of that when people disagree with you.

 

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Aethelwine wrote:. Linden Lab should think about changing the covenant for parcels in locations like that, but until they do the owners are entitled to do so, even if they hurt themselves and their neighbours.

i can agree in that, but only if they lower the landfees, it's a bit strange to pay for the use when others use it, even for a minute.

Or ... they should make it possibe to raise the lines for paid acces up to 4096m ... passing allowed, after paying a little donation.

 

 

oh and... people who tell here orbs should be off when a owner isn't there?... i don't mind people visiting when i'm at my parcel.. it's when i'm not there i lock it. I simply don't like it to log in again and find out one or other newb been playing with my objects. ...i have enough laundry, i don't need extra sheets 3 times a week...

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All great ideas because security orbs are the most obnoxious things in SL. You are an avatar in a virtual world, stop being so terrified of other avatars. If you don't want anyone to see you, uncheck "avatars can see me" and be done with it.

I don't allow security orbs on the ground in my rentals, only in the sky.

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Alwin Alcott wrote:


Aethelwine wrote:. Linden Lab should think about changing the covenant for parcels in locations like that, but until they do the owners are entitled to do so, even if they hurt themselves and their neighbours.

i can agree in that, but only if they lower the landfees, it's a bit strange to pay for the use when others use it, even for a minute.

There would be no need to lower the land fees the people affected gain by seeing their land value increase. If they really need to exclude people then Linden Lab could offer an alternative location away from public route ways.

 

Or ... they should make it possibe to raise the lines for paid acces up to 4096m ... passing allowed, after paying a little donation.

I can't believe you are suggesting that, it has nothing much to do with the problem anyway.

Most of the orbs and banlines that cause a problem aren't on land people want to be on, they find themselves lagged on to them after a crossing. Or because they have terraformed their land such that it looks like it is open, but then set up their orbs and banlines like a trap on it.

 

oh and... people who tell here orbs should be off when a owner isn't there?... i don't mind people visiting when i'm at my parcel.. it's when i'm not there i lock it. I simply don't like it to log in again and find out one or other newb been playing with my objects. ...i have enough laundry, i don't need extra sheets 3 times a week...

Do you delete a sofa after someone else has sat on it and replace it with a new one from the box???

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Aethelwine wrote:

The last time I hit a banline at slow speed my boat bounced right up the side and across the top of it.

I wish it did that everytime!

Maybe a clever scripter could make a vehicle detect banlines and do that reliably?

People using fast eject orbs and banlines at ground level around waterways and roads are devaluing their own property and those of their neighbours on the same route. Linden Lab should think about changing the covenant for parcels in locations like that, but until they do the owners are entitled to do so, even if they hurt themselves and their neighbours.

Yes, when I look at "Land for Sale" I often find ban lines on near-by parcel borders. 

What I'm wondering, though, is if anyone has thought to educate our new residents about ban lines and security orbs? I remember how, when I was first here, I used to have my feelings hurt when I was bounced off a banline or met a security orb with the message "You have five seconds to leave or you will be ejected...."  I think some of the new advertising Linden Labs is doing is excellent, and the New Resident Experience is pretty polished, but is there anywhere that anyone tells newbies "You will find that some residents erect banlines and set up security orbs to restrict access to their property. You can set your controls so that you can see the banlines, but if you accidentally teleport to the wrong location and get sent home, please don't take it personally. Oh, and don't accept packages from strangers."?

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Ok, let's have a look at this from the landowners perspective.....

I have a small parcel at a corner of two intersecting linden waterways in the heterocera lower delta.

I have a security orb installed but have it set to passive and I even have object entry turned on. So everyone with a vehicle can fly over and sail through my land.

All to often when I am building, one of them so called 'explorers' comes racing through the builds on my parcel in a speedboat that's too big and fast to be controlled on the narrow waterways of the lower delta. Sometimes they just park their boat in the middle of whatever I'm building try to start a conversation and then leave the boat in the middle of my build and teleport away again. I have had the same happen with flying vehicles in my skybox. I've logged onto second life many a times only to find another helicopter stuck in my skybox. Personally I can live with this and don't see it as a reason to set my orb to eject people or disable object entry for my parcel. But I can imagine a landowner can get really fed up with this and decide to lock anyone out of their parcel.

Eventually I will be putting a shop on my piece of land and you can bet I'll disable object entry then. I don't want to log onto SL only to find that a boat is stuck in half of my vendors for the past few hours. Let alone open myself up to a griefer attack!

 

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You can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think it's necessary to have object entry on to allow vehicles in. I don';t think that turning it off prevents them.

Many years ago we did a test with it. Object entry was turned off and yet a friend in slow flying vehicle cruised smoothly into the store. Perhaps it's changed since then but, if it hasn't, you don't need to allow object entry for them.

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Aethelwine wrote:


There would be no need to lower the land fees the people affected gain by seeing their land value increase. If they really need to exclude people then Linden Lab could offer an alternative location away from public route ways.

Or ... they should make it possibe to raise the lines for paid acces up to 4096m ... passing allowed, after paying a little donation.

I can't believe you are suggesting that, it has nothing much to do with the problem anyway.


you simply keep in denial that others pay for your enjoyment, land is just less worth when you have to allow others on it all the time, there's no point to buy it than.

The problem is flyers do not stay on the public routes... if they do there is no problem at all.

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If that was true then land values would be less next to waterways and roads.... but they aren't they are considerably higher value

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think it's necessary to have object entry on to allow vehicles in. I don';t think that turning it off prevents them.

That's correct. What disabling object entry does is prevent any object on which nobody is sitting from crossing its origin (mid-point) into the parcel.

Except in the case of an ongoing griefer attack, this is almost never what the landowner is really trying to do with this setting. Rather, it is very likely to cause them more trouble than benefit. That's because it acts as a kind of "trap" for any passing stuff that an errant script or a distracted builder may push in the parcel's direction.

Sure, the landowner may not really want that stuff crossing through their parcel, but it's better if it crosses and maybe makes its way to safety than if it gets stuck on the barbed wire border.

(This used to be a much bigger problem when certain unmanned vehicles roamed the roads, as some may recall.)

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