So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Starberry Passion]

Just now, Chery Amore said:

Between the skanky comments and T&A hanging out ones.. I'm starting to feel personally attacked.

I need therapy now!!

If you want to do that, do that all you want, don't let someone else stop you or get you down for doing that.

[Wincil]

6 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

You know we get that you're not gonna lie in your posts. No need to constantly remind us. We get it.

ok

[brodiac90]

9 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And close down the Burlesques and stripjoints and skin shops LL speciificlly mentioned as suitable for M rated land.

Well done you just displaced a whole load of businesses which now have to move to Zindra, oh and made sure that the "kiddies" get even more hate and intolerance.

 

Good JOB! 

👍

 

 

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think the argument could be made that those are not instances of public nudity, in the sense that they are generally indoors on privately owned parcels. I see no problems with simply naming such things as exceptions. They already are named explicitly in the guidelines.

Strip joints and Burlesques would have a very clear expectations of nudity and are not places you would let RL kids into. However, a normal beach is perfectly safe for RL children. If an adult (particularly a male)  went to a family beach in RL and exposed themselves then I reckon you can count how long it takes the police to get there in minutes. On a nudity beach no one would bat an eyelid. 

Private nudity allowed on M and public nudity on A would give very clear guidelines.   

[Alwin Alcott]

15 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Because the panic button monitor's the sim's current rating and will automatically TP you home to safe land if the rating suddenly changes. So for example, if I'm on M land and it suddenly changes to A (which would mean I'm breaking TOS) it would auto tp me home. 

it must have been asked already, more than once i guess... but doesn't setting your preferences to G and M block the A tp's?

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said:

They will decide to move to where the money is. And the money is not in the pockets of the Child Avtar Pilots. Business is not "fair". And Linden Lab is a business.

The money is in the hands of SL residents.  Not just child avatars or those who spend all their time on Adult sims, but residents as a whole, and while it may be more convenient for them if those unaffected by the changes to the TOS remained silent I personally think it would be a grave mistake for them to ignore those who have an opinion on the new rules.

Anyway, let's face it, if LL were that proficient at "moving to where the money is" then the SL population wouldn't have been in a slow state of declining for the last decade.  It's also just as likely that their distaste for some of the adult content they have on their platform will encourage them to sweep more of it under the rug in public areas.

[brodiac90]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

it must have been asked already, more than once i guess... but doesn't setting your preferences to G and M block the A tp's?

It will, but it won't stop you suddenly being on an A rated sim if you were on a G or M sim and the rating changed while you were there. 

[Anna Salyx]

28 minutes ago, Piper Kelly said:

Why would you need a panic button when all you have to do is hit the home button?   

I don't have a child form avatar and so can only offer these answers from the 50,000 foot viewpoint mind you, but in many cases a scripted HUD can be proactively quicker than a human in bailing you out of an unexpected and unwanted situation that can be automatically detected for. Also, forgetting that a given shopping event is in A rated land and changing first, it can quickly move you back out almost as soon as you land. It can take care of edge cases of the same or similar accidental teleports into a prohibited region and getting ones attention pulled away from the computer mid teleport.  As one up thread stated, crossing over into an A rated land by methods other than teleporting and not realizing it.  that last one might also be an edge case, but it's something that for those being directly affected by the new TOS restrictions have keep in consideration.

[Vivienne Schell]

1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

The money is in the hands of SL residents.  Not just child avatars or those who spend all their time on Adult sims, but residents as a whole, and while it may be more convenient for them if those unaffected by the changes to the TOS remained silent I personally think it would be a grave mistake for them to ignore those who have an opinion on the new rules.

Anyway, let's face it, if LL were that proficient at "moving to where the money is" then the SL population wouldn't have been in a slow state of declining for the last decade.  It's also just as likely that their distaste for some of the adult content they have on their platform will encourage them to sweep more of it under the rug in public areas.

Ah, here we go. Welcome to the inquisition.

[Kathlen Onyx]

7 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

Between the skanky comments and T&A hanging out ones.. I'm starting to feel personally attacked.

I need therapy now!!

Since it's been said that Second Life is used the most for therapeutic reasons, just log in. It shouldn't take you long to find it.

[Quartz Mole]

Please try to stick to the topic of the new Terms of Service.   

We want to keep the thread open, since it's obviously an important topic about which people are concerned, and while it may be (and probably is) that most things that could possibly be said about it already have been, not everyone has been here from the start, and not everyone will want to plough through (checks notes) about 180-something pages to get the full story.

It would be a shame if, when they get here with a question or concern that's important to them, even though it's been rehearsed several times before, they find themselves in the middle of a load of off-topic posts.

 

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 hour ago, Starberry Passion said:

That's already a body type, it's called rectangle/banana... it's also called boyish, it's also called Athletic body.... that's already a thing.....

I don't think people who want an androgynous look, want to look like a dude or even a chick. They want to look inbetween, So I don't think that an male beefcake body would work. I mean, I am androgynous looking and sounding IRL. And I sure as heck, don't have that type of body. 

[Starberry Passion]

2 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

Please try to stick to the topic of the new Terms of Service.   

We want to keep the thread open, since it's obviously an important topic about which people are concerned, and while it may be (and probably is) that most things that could possibly be said about it already have been, not everyone has been here from the start, and not everyone will want to plough through (checks notes) about 180-something pages to get the full story.

It would be a shame if, when they get here with a question or concern that's important to them, even though it's been rehearsed several times before, they find themselves in the middle of a load of off-topic posts.

 

 

It would be, at this point, ask people who play inworld and ask second lifers who have a twitter about what concerns them There is, also, Discord and or Reddit. You could make rooms for this very kind of things,

questions and concerns.

[Madi Melodious]

23 minutes ago, Piper Kelly said:

Thank you for that.   When I read it the first time I imagined a hud you had to click on to teleport you away which seemed redundant to me.

You are welcome.   I plan to open source it and full perm it once I get the chance.   It was a rush job, about 8 hours of coding over 2 days.  It seems to be pretty solid though.   The undocumented sim reporting is in the second script and contains some cobbled together code that lets you use linksetData as a replacement for lists in a script.  

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 hour ago, Starberry Passion said:

I prefer Dark-skinned American, instead of black but that's just me. I know people will continue to say black or white,

to me, I'm just an American with brown skin.

I usually just call them American, if they are American and Canadian if they are Canadian. The colour of their skin is irrelevant to me. 

[Anna Salyx]

16 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And close down the Burlesques and stripjoints and skin shops LL speciificlly mentioned as suitable for M rated land.

Well done you just displaced a whole load of businesses which now have to move to Zindra, oh and made sure that the "kiddies" get even more hate and intolerance.

this raises a secondary consideration though: what would constitute "public".  The current TOS if is that in M Rated land, public nudity is not necessary forbidden. And certain activities are explicitly allowed "behind closed door" in a private dwelling.  Private none-dwelling establishments fall somewhere in a middle ground. Store/shopping centers are generally categorized (at least IRL) as private entities that the public has no inherent  expectation of access, unlike say a public park, the town square, cities streets, and get while not public, they do have certain, arguably reasonable, restrictions placed upon them So too, a SL Burlesque hall, would be a private establishment with it's own access rules with some allowed activities while still prohibiting other activities, no?

[Qie Niangao]

I can't imagine the Lab actually forbidding public nudity on M-rated land. It was a big deal back in 2007 when they promised not everybody needed to move to Zindra because all "normal" pr0n fantasies could still be played out on M.

As it turned out, though, I'm not sure all that much public nudity actually happen on M. Some nude beaches. More like mine where once in a while there's nudity, but is it really important to the business? Probably not. But it would be perceived as very disruptive, and that could be important to the business.

I think they need find a way to say that properly clothed child avatars can be in visual proximity of nudity on M-rated land as long as they don't engage or participate in any common activity with a nude avatar. That language is clunky as hell, but something like that. That will require smelling salts for some posters on this thread, but it seems to me the least disruptive step they can take.

[Chery Amore]

I gotta say I hope they don't take requests for changes to the Mature rated land seriously.  You have to be a real life adult to access those areas in the first place. I consider them rated somewhere between PG and R pesonally.   I think if clarification in the wording is needed or more possible senarios need to be given then that's okay.  It would cause way too much upheaval for everyone that has no connection to child roleplay.. as well as just more upheaval in general with current land ownership.

Perhaps people in the kid community and family roleplayers need to focus on expanding available entertaining areas on G rated land so they don't feel left out?  

[Alwin Alcott]

3 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

It would be, at this point, ask people who play inworld and ask second lifers who have a twitter about what concerns them There is, also, Discord and or Reddit. You could make rooms for this very kind of things,

questions and concerns.

twitter, discord, reddit ... we have forums here, blogs here, announcements here.
Most people dont even know that their accountpage is the core of their character and settings ... while accountpages are quite normal even for the most simple subscription on the web.

And all changes are announced there, you can even see the inworld time!

[brodiac90]

I'm glad LL are going to be addressing the modesty layer issue soon and will be giving out guidance. I'd be very much shocked if it isn't just a blanket approach of all kids must wear a modesty layer around their waist and chest which for boys like me would seem excessive but then I don't know how you police it. My avatar, Tweenster, for example, is based on the female body and resembles a barbie doll i.e. there is nothing there below the waist., whether you're a boy or girl or not depends on how developed you are in the chest area and then your shape / hair / makeupe etc. 

 

[Indy Melody]

In regards to a region suddenly changing it's Maturity Rating, that is only possible on Estate Regions and by those that have Estate Manager rights. And if I recall correctly, would require a region restart for the change to go into effect. And we all know from the weekly region restarts, you have to leave or be logged out. So if you are a child and have to leave for a restart AND your preferences are set to not go to Adult regions, when you attempt to return to that region, you would not get there. 

Mainland moderate or general regions will never be changed by the Lindens. So you will always know where mainland stands.

 

[Anwenn]

37 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

dedicated Child Avi Pilots

You called, Aunt Vivienne?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I can't imagine the Lab actually forbidding public nudity on M-rated land. It was a big deal back in 2007 when they promised not everybody needed to move to Zindra because all "normal" pr0n fantasies could still be played out on M.

As it turned out, though, I'm not sure all that much public nudity actually happen on M. Some nude beaches. More like mine where once in a while there's nudity, but is it really important to the business? Probably not. But it would be perceived as very disruptive, and that could be important to the business.

I think they need find a way to say that properly clothed child avatars can be in visual proximity of nudity on M-rated land as long as they don't engage or participate in any common activity with a nude avatar. That language is clunky as hell, but something like that. That will require smelling salts for some posters on this thread, but it seems to me the least disruptive step they can take.

I take your point about disruption, I guess, but I'd underline your own question: how important in practice is the provision for public nudity in Moderate regions?

The language you suggest isn't just clunky, but also dangerously ambiguous. Would a child avatar at a club where there was no nudity be expected to leave if one of the dancers decided to go topless, because they were "engaging or participating in a common activity," i.e., dancing? Not trying to be critical, but this leaves as many questions unanswered as it addresses.

I don't see a particular difficulty in carving out exemptions for a no-nudity clause in Moderate ratings, as these already exist (as, most obviously, the example of burlesque so long as it is not advertised using adult terms).

Another option: compel landowners to specify whether their Moderate regions allowed nudity, and add language that excludes child avatars from such regions. The "default" where it is not specified is "nudity permitted." (Or not!)

There is no good or easy answer to any of this.

Edited May 6 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I don't think people who want an androgynous look, want to look like a dude or even a chick. They want to look inbetween, So I don't think that an male beefcake body would work. I mean, I am androgynous looking and sounding IRL. And I sure as heck, don't have that type of body. 

I use the full range - full feminine to full masculine and everything in-between. Maitreya to Legacy Male. Then toss it in a blender, shake it up, and remix my look a bunch of different ways. I make androgynous looks with either body (with or without addons).

That's mainly why I'm paying attention to this discussion, even as a fully adult avatar. Whether or not the rumors of flat-chest wearers catching hands is true, I'm keeping an eye/ear out just in case as I often find myself on adult land without even trying (via shopping) and some of my avatars might be difficult to judge. I'm tall as heck, but height isn't really a factor, so...

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe everyone could wear little tassels where their nipples would be.

Everybody in SL should wear pasties from now on, to protect the sensibilities of those who can't bear to see nipples. You can use little hearts, teddy bears, bandaids, starfish or whatever you like.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Persephone Emerald said:

Everybody in SL should wear pasties from now on, to protect the sensibilities of those who can't bear to see nipples. You can use little hearts, teddy bears, bandaids, starfish or whatever you like.

Can I use mesh nipple pasties?